...First Microscopic Images of Soil from another World...and Several Mysteries

From the Mars Phoenix lander of course

Lander Homepages
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/main.php


In these two microscopic images, field of view about 2 to 3mm, with all
the dust, there's some green crystals (olivine?), and a square
red crystal (iron?).
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/image...ID=4859&cID=69

And in this picture, in the upper left of the sticky substrate, is a
brownish oval crystal? Coated with numerous tiny crystals and
looking like a rather festive Christmas tree. Any guesses as to
what these crystals are?
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/image...ID=4869&cID=69

White material in trench, ice or salts?
NASA seems to think it's the edge of a slab they trenched into, but
hasn't identified the white material yet.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix...p?fileID=13919

And another open question is this poor resolution image of a rock
directly underneath the lander. It looks like a slab of ice where
water has bored a couple of holes. Is it ice or rock?
(ignore stray Martian stainless spring-like fossil lower right~)
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=0&cID=74


Whatd'ya think?


What I know about geology can fit on a post card, yet I find
this stuff very fascinating. Who wouldn't?


s

On 17 juin, 02:35, "jonathan" wrote:
From the Mars Phoenix lander of course

Lander Homepageshttp://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/main.php

In these two microscopic images, field of view about 2 to 3mm, with all
the dust, there's some green crystals (olivine?), and a square
red crystal (iron?).http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/image...ID=4859&cID=69

And in this picture, in the upper left of the sticky substrate, is a
brownish oval crystal? Coated with numerous tiny crystals and
looking like a rather festive Christmas tree. Any guesses as to
what these crystals are?http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/image...ID=4869&cID=69

White material in trench, ice or salts?
NASA seems to think it's the edge of a slab they trenched into, but
hasn't identified the white material yet.http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix...p?fileID=13919

And another open question is this poor resolution image of a rock
directly underneath the lander. It looks like a slab of ice where
water has bored a couple of holes. *Is it ice or rock?
(ignore stray Martian stainless spring-like fossil lower right~)http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=0&cID=74

Whatd'ya think?

What I know about geology can fit on a post card, yet I find
this stuff very fascinating. Who wouldn't?

s
Mars rock formations are exactly the one who find down here in Earth
as Mars is Earth elder sister, just as Venus is Earth younger sister !
One day the Earth will be on Mars orbit just like Mars will have
drifted further to the Belt of Aeroliths position ...
... and life on Earth will have become extinct has Mars life has
become extinct !!!

and thanks to Global Warming that very process of drift on the
Ecliptic is accelerating indeed

Not cyclic but irreversible situation !

Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
Discoverer of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines in the Great Sandy Desert
Exploration Geologist & Offshore Consultant
Bus ph + 33 6 50 17 14 64
Founder of the True Geology

~ Ignorance is the Cosmic Sin, the One never Forgiven ~

On Jun 17, 6:51*pm, wrote:
On 17 juin, 02:35, "jonathan" wrote:



From the Mars Phoenix lander of course




----------------Give yourself an enema Le Turd----------------------

On Jun 17, 7:19*pm, The Man From Havana
wrote:
On Jun 17, 6:51*pm, wrote:

On 17 juin, 02:35, "jonathan" wrote:

From the Mars Phoenix lander of course

----------------Give yourself an enema Le Turd----------------------

YEP WELL DONE !

"jonathan" wrote in message
...

snip

And another open question is this poor resolution image of a rock
directly underneath the lander. It looks like a slab of ice where
water has bored a couple of holes. Is it ice or rock?
(ignore stray Martian stainless spring-like fossil lower right~)
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=0&cID=74


Whatd'ya think?

NASA said today that the hole is directly beneath a thruster, and so is
probably the result of a thruster firing when the craft landed. They also
said that that might indicate that the slab is ice.

George

"jonathan" wrote
Whatd'ya think?

Salt.

George wrote:

NASA said today that the hole is directly beneath a thruster, and so is
probably the result of a thruster firing when the craft landed. They also
said that that might indicate that the slab is ice.


Or dry ice... I took a Bernz-O-Matic torch to water ice with very poor
results indeed, and the total time of the landing engine's impinging on
the Martian surface would be be very low, measured in a few seconds at most.
It really didn't help that it took so long to get the soil sample into
the test chamber - any CO2 or water ice in it might have sublimated into
the atmosphere between the time it was scooped up and the time it
finally got into the test chamber days later.
Ideally, the soil sample goes into the test chamber within a few minutes
after the arm scoops it up, to preserve any volatile ices in it.
I still have grave doubts about it finding water ice, but would happily
admit to being wrong about this if firm proof of water ice is found,
because of the profound implications of such a finding.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote
Or dry ice...

Flat ice... Under a rocket thruster?

It would have sublimed away a long time ago.

"Pat Flannery" wrote
Ideally, the soil sample goes into the test chamber within a few minutes
after the arm scoops it up, to preserve any volatile ices in it.

The atmospheric pressure 2cm under a pile of sand is not practically
different than the atmospheric pressure at the surface.

Salt.

V for Vendicar wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote

Or dry ice...


Flat ice... Under a rocket thruster?

It would have sublimed away a long time ago.


We talking dry ice or water ice here?
Temperature, heating by solar illumination, atmospheric pressure, and
the insulating properties of the soil over the ice all change its
ability to sublimate into the atmosphere.
Personally, I think there's nothing but CO2 "dry ice" there.
But, who knows?

The atmospheric pressure 2cm under a pile of sand is not practically
different than the atmospheric pressure at the surface.


What interests me is the NASA "liquid water" ejections on the side of
the crater photos from around a year back.
At Mars surface temperatures, the triple point of CO2 needs only
pressure to allow CO2 to exist in a liquid form.. and those "water
ejections" came out of the side of the crater from around a hundred feet
or more depth - never on the surface.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
lephone...


George wrote:

NASA said today that the hole is directly beneath a thruster, and so is
probably the result of a thruster firing when the craft landed. They also
said that that might indicate that the slab is ice.


Or dry ice... I took a Bernz-O-Matic torch to water ice with very poor results
indeed, and the total time of the landing engine's impinging on the Martian
surface would be be very low, measured in a few seconds at most.


I was wondering about that. But I think they're going to find the white
slabs and material in the trench is indeed water ice. That area has
observations from the Odyssey orbiter showing from 30% to 60%
water ice in the first meter or so. Even in the first few inches.

The poles are all covered with Co2 ice, but on the fringes surrounding
the poles is a region of water ice. Which is where they landed.
So I think that's a slab of water ice with naturally bored holes.

The data supports a ...currently active...water cycle on Mars in
these areas. Which is what life needs. I believe the best conditions
for life would be where water transitions from water-ice-vapor
and back again. Not so much in any one of those realms, but where
the transition takes place. This landing site is looking better every
day. I'm getting psyched up!

Water Mass Map from Neutron Spectrometer
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ph...-20080513.html


ASU scientist finds Martian ice is patchy and variable

"The fact that ice is present near the depth of stability in the current
Martian climate shows that the ground ice is responding to
climate cycles," he says." "This implies that water ice in the ground
can swap places with water vapor in the atmosphere as the climate
changes, he says, adding:
"The THEMIS measurements support an active water cycle on Mars,
such as other research has predicted."
http://asunews.asu.edu/stories/20070...03_marsice.htm


It really didn't help that it took so long to get the soil sample into the
test chamber - any CO2 or water ice in it might have sublimated into the
atmosphere between the time it was scooped up and the time it finally got into
the test chamber days later.
Ideally, the soil sample goes into the test chamber within a few minutes after
the arm scoops it up, to preserve any volatile ices in it.
I still have grave doubts about it finding water ice, but would happily admit
to being wrong about this if firm proof of water ice is found, because of the
profound implications of such a finding.


Here's a really nice paper on the presumed history of water ice at
the Phoenix Mars landing site. Aptly named....

THE HISTORY OF ICE AT THE PHOENIX MARS
LANDING SITE
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX (2008) 1479

What's interesting is this statement below is about the age
of the ice.

"It is not reliably known when the last massive ice sheet
formed [14, 5, 6] or how humidity varies with time. In total,
four climate scenarios are simulated: Precipitation 5640 ka
ago and 632 ka ago (the most recent obliquity maximum with
~35 d) with constant humidity and time *varying humidity.
Figure 3 shows preliminary model results for the vertical
ice profile, if the last ice sheet formed 632 ka ago. The massive
ice sheet is much closer to the surface than it would be had
it last formed millions of years ago."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1479.pdf


Not so old as we've been led to believe all this time.
Nearer the surface means younger. And if that is ice
they've photographed so close to the surface....it must
be very young. Since the soil is thought to build from
dust accumulation from the air.

Since other data indicates Mars is just now exiting
an ice age and warming, it may be the last warm
period with liquid water near the surface could have
have been that figure of 630,000 years ago.

Not billions, maybe not even millions of years ago.
And another thing, it's pretty clear from the much
greater lag deposit at the Phoenix site that it's a much
older surface than at Meridiani, which is pure soil
with hardly a rock to be found. That implies water
ice could have been at Meridiani even more recently.

I'm going with ...all the white stuff... is water ice.






Pat