Accelerator on a Chip

The same technology that lets you take a room full of equipment in 1950s and put it in your pocket by 2010, can be adapted to the production of micro-scale devices. The most amazing of these is "Accelerator on a Chip"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG1kVIIy2Ok

Its possible to create very high efficiency very low mass very compact particle accelerators that send materials with an exhaust velocity approaching the speed of light, with material coming out at the speed desired.

This will permit the creation of positrons using sunlight at relatively high efficiency. It will also permit the creation of crystalline structures that store positronium ion pairs to store positronium long-term with densities exceeding that of iron. Also the efficient conversion of power to high speed exhaust is also possible.

http://www.computerhistory.org/timeline/computers/


For positronium powered photon rockets we use Rindler's version of the Tsiolkovski equation;


Vf = c * tanh( ln( 1 / (1-u) ) )

u = 1 - 1 / exp( atanh( Vf / c ) )

Where Vf=final velocity as a fraction of c,
u=propellant fraction
c=speed of light.

u Vf/c ly/yr

0.05 0.0488 0.0489
0.10 0.0955 0.0959
0.15 0.1403 0.1419
0.20 0.1835 0.1873
0.25 0.2254 0.2328

0.30 0.2662 0.2791
0.35 0.3061 0.3268
0.40 0.3453 0.3768
0.45 0.3841 0.4301
0.50 0.4226 0.4880

0.55 0.4612 0.5522
0.60 0.5000 0.6250
0.65 0.5394 0.7098
0.70 0.5799 0.8120
0.75 0.6220 0.9404

0.80 0.6667 1.1111
0.85 0.7153 1.3578
0.90 0.7706 1.7678
0.95 0.8399 2.6897
0.99 0.9291 6.5863

0.999 0.9776 21.8660
0.9999 0.9929 70.2124

http://ykbcorp.com/downloads/Bae_pho...ulation..pd f

My friend and AFRL researcher Young Bae, improved the idea of another friend of mine, Robert Forward, laser light sail, by using conjugate optics to recycle the photons that are otherwise wasted. This produces a very efficient laser light sail system.

The most interesting aspect of this system is that the intensity of light circulating in the system if far higher than the intensity of light as the surface of most stars. This is true also with photonic thrusters.

This means that the technology that permits compact laser light sails, or photonic thrusters, also permits the capture of energy directly on a star's surface! Self replicating machine systems, that extract metals from a star's atmosphere to replicate, using the abundant energy there, permits rapid conversion of the sun's output to useful forms.

One approach is to use a laser beam to accelerate a payload, by absorbing the incident photons, and in the process create positronium efficiently storing it on board. That way the stored energy is used to slow the vehicle down at the target star. Of course stars that have beam forming devices on both stars can send payloads between the stars with high efficiency without the need to store antimatter on board.

Boosting at one gee for 68.51315 years and covering a distance of 67.551 light years, attains a speed of 99.99% light speed. Coasting for another 140 years allows the ship to traverse 9,829.736 light years. At the end of its journey, it spends anither 68.51315 years slowing down, covering another 67.551 light years, covering a total distance of 9,964.838 light years in 275.1 years ship time.

All stars within 135.1 light years of Earth are boosted to at 1 gee until the half way point, and then slowed at 1 gee. The time taken aboard ship for this is given by

http://convertalot.com/relativistic_...alculator.html

A person requires something on the order of 10 metric tons of payload to survive indefinitely in space. So, a 1000 person ship massing 10,000 metric tons requires 1,408,450 metric tons of positronium. This requires 176,056.4 cubic meters of volume. Contained in a sphere 69.54 meters in diameter!

http://twistedsifter.com/2009/11/oas...t-cruise-ship/

A 100 meter long spinning cylinder 70 meters in diameter with spherical end caps - forming a pill shaped container 240 meters long - with floor sections that rotate through 90 degrees between boost and coast - possess the features needed to carry out a mission to the stars.

4.27 million tons per second of Ps can be made by capturing the entire output of the solar surface. A square centimeter of self replicating solar panel dropped on the solar surface requires 75.7 replications. If it takes an hour to replicate a 1 sq cm solar panel on the solar surface, it takes a little more than 3 days to capture the entire output of the Sun. After this, we can send one ship like this to the stars three times per second! At 1000 persons per ship, and 3 ships per second the entire human race can be dispatched to the stars in 5 weeks and only a very small fraction of the solar output is used.

We will have the data for a billion of the nearest stars very shortly;

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Sp.../Gaia_overview

When arriving at the target star the ship uses stored energy to slow down to planetary speeds. A self replicating machine is dropped onto the star's surface, and the ship is refuelled from that star.

There are 4.8 billion stars within 10,000 light years of Earth.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/5000lys.html

345 million G-type stars. If we direct all 7.8 million starships to a shell between 9924 light years and 10,000 light years from Earth, we will fill all G-type stars with 1,000 persons in that shell, and leave the remainder unaffected. It will take a little more than 10,000 years for the people to get there. In the mean time, reproductive rate of humanity will drop to zero. Further, some will be lost in transit.

All will have an adventure! Working their way back to Earth over the next 20,000 years, stopping at all the stars in between, or expanding outward, across the galaxy over the next 20,000 years - beaming information back to 'human space'.

Longevity is not a problem;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2oN0b1D0qE

Neither is the duration of the journey;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAaZVz9pDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVLpo5uPL3c

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 6:34:30 PM UTC+12, William Mook wrote:
The same technology that lets you take a room full of equipment in 1950s and put it in your pocket by 2010, can be adapted to the production of micro-scale devices. The most amazing of these is "Accelerator on a Chip"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG1kVIIy2Ok

Its possible to create very high efficiency very low mass very compact particle accelerators that send materials with an exhaust velocity approaching the speed of light, with material coming out at the speed desired.

This will permit the creation of positrons using sunlight at relatively high efficiency. It will also permit the creation of crystalline structures that store positronium ion pairs to store positronium long-term with densities exceeding that of iron. Also the efficient conversion of power to high speed exhaust is also possible.

http://www.computerhistory.org/timeline/computers/


For positronium powered photon rockets we use Rindler's version of the Tsiolkovski equation;


Vf = c * tanh( ln( 1 / (1-u) ) )

u = 1 - 1 / exp( atanh( Vf / c ) )

Where Vf=final velocity as a fraction of c,
u=propellant fraction
c=speed of light.

u Vf/c ly/yr

0.05 0.0488 0.0489
0.10 0.0955 0.0959
0.15 0.1403 0.1419
0.20 0.1835 0.1873
0.25 0.2254 0.2328

0.30 0.2662 0.2791
0.35 0.3061 0.3268
0.40 0.3453 0.3768
0.45 0.3841 0.4301
0.50 0.4226 0.4880

0.55 0.4612 0.5522
0.60 0.5000 0.6250
0.65 0.5394 0.7098
0.70 0.5799 0.8120
0.75 0.6220 0.9404

0.80 0.6667 1.1111
0.85 0.7153 1.3578
0.90 0.7706 1.7678
0.95 0.8399 2.6897
0.99 0.9291 6.5863

0.999 0.9776 21.8660
0.9999 0.9929 70.2124

http://ykbcorp.com/downloads/Bae_pho...irculation.pdf

My friend and AFRL researcher Young Bae, improved the idea of another friend of mine, Robert Forward, laser light sail, by using conjugate optics to recycle the photons that are otherwise wasted. This produces a very efficient laser light sail system.

The most interesting aspect of this system is that the intensity of light circulating in the system if far higher than the intensity of light as the surface of most stars. This is true also with photonic thrusters.

This means that the technology that permits compact laser light sails, or photonic thrusters, also permits the capture of energy directly on a star's surface! Self replicating machine systems, that extract metals from a star's atmosphere to replicate, using the abundant energy there, permits rapid conversion of the sun's output to useful forms.

One approach is to use a laser beam to accelerate a payload, by absorbing the incident photons, and in the process create positronium efficiently storing it on board. That way the stored energy is used to slow the vehicle down at the target star. Of course stars that have beam forming devices on both stars can send payloads between the stars with high efficiency without the need to store antimatter on board.

Boosting at one gee for 68.51315 years and covering a distance of 67.551 light years, attains a speed of 99.99% light speed. Coasting for another 140 years allows the ship to traverse 9,829.736 light years. At the end of its journey, it spends anither 68.51315 years slowing down, covering another 67.551 light years, covering a total distance of 9,964.838 light years in 275.1 years ship time.

All stars within 135.1 light years of Earth are boosted to at 1 gee until the half way point, and then slowed at 1 gee. The time taken aboard ship for this is given by

http://convertalot.com/relativistic_...alculator.html

A person requires something on the order of 10 metric tons of payload to survive indefinitely in space. So, a 1000 person ship massing 10,000 metric tons requires 1,408,450 metric tons of positronium. This requires 176,056.4 cubic meters of volume. Contained in a sphere 69.54 meters in diameter!

http://twistedsifter.com/2009/11/oas...t-cruise-ship/

A 100 meter long spinning cylinder 70 meters in diameter with spherical end caps - forming a pill shaped container 240 meters long - with floor sections that rotate through 90 degrees between boost and coast - possess the features needed to carry out a mission to the stars.

4.27 million tons per second of Ps can be made by capturing the entire output of the solar surface. A square centimeter of self replicating solar panel dropped on the solar surface requires 75.7 replications. If it takes an hour to replicate a 1 sq cm solar panel on the solar surface, it takes a little more than 3 days to capture the entire output of the Sun. After this, we can send one ship like this to the stars three times per second! At 1000 persons per ship, and 3 ships per second the entire human race can be dispatched to the stars in 5 weeks and only a very small fraction of the solar output is used.

We will have the data for a billion of the nearest stars very shortly;

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Sp.../Gaia_overview

When arriving at the target star the ship uses stored energy to slow down to planetary speeds. A self replicating machine is dropped onto the star's surface, and the ship is refuelled from that star.

There are 4.8 billion stars within 10,000 light years of Earth.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/5000lys.html

345 million G-type stars. If we direct all 7.8 million starships to a shell between 9924 light years and 10,000 light years from Earth, we will fill all G-type stars with 1,000 persons in that shell, and leave the remainder unaffected. It will take a little more than 10,000 years for the people to get there. In the mean time, reproductive rate of humanity will drop to zero. Further, some will be lost in transit.

All will have an adventure! Working their way back to Earth over the next 20,000 years, stopping at all the stars in between, or expanding outward, across the galaxy over the next 20,000 years - beaming information back to 'human space'.

Longevity is not a problem;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2oN0b1D0qE

Neither is the duration of the journey;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAaZVz9pDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVLpo5uPL3c

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...-positron-beam

http://phys.org/news/2013-06-physici...atter-gun.html

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0907.5348.pdf

Sunlight at 1,000 W/m2 peak with 3.8 kWh/m2/day - 5 giga-joules per meter squared per year. 55.6 micrograms of positronium is produced per year per square meter.

It takes 5.89 billion self replicating solar powered machine cells, each a 14.7 um diameter sphere to collect a square meter of sunlight. These total 14.7 grams and produce 55.6 micrograms of positronium molecules a year. 0..378% per year mass conversion.

In space, a square meter intercepts 1361 W/m2 continuously with 32.6 kWh/m2/day. 42.95 giga-joules per meter squared per year. This is 3.251% the mass of the system made per year in the form of Positronium in Earth orbit exposed to continual sunlight.

On the surface of the sun, the energy level is 46,270x the intensity it is at 1 astronomical unit. This is 63 megawatts per square meter. At this power level the rate of positronium production equals the mass of the collector system every 4.3765 hours. This is 14.7 grams/m2. Or 14.7 metric tons per km2.

http://ykbcorp.com/downloads/Bae_pho...ulation..pd f

Photonic thrusters are an advance over laser light sails. Basically photons are cycled between two conjugate mirrors to multiply thrust, by multiplying power efficiently. A photon rocket producing the same lift as a modern wing would have a meter producing the same lift as a wing - around 500 kgf/m2 ~ 5,000 Newtons/m2, At 0.3 GW/N - this is 150 GW/m2. This is 2,238.8x greater than the solar surface (0.067 GW/m2).

So, the ability to handle high intensity light to produce sensible thrust using photonic thrusters, requires the ability to handle light intensities exceeding that of the solar surface.

The solar atmosphere also consists of 4,600 ppm by weight carbon, and 10,400 ppm by weight oxygen. By the far the largest component is hydrogen (739,000 ppm) and helium (240,000 ppm). So, hydrocarbons and water are easily made from this atmosphere.

The density of the photosphere is 200 milligrams per cubic meter. So, 2.08 milligrams of oxygen exist per cubic meter along with 0.92 milligrams of carbon per cubic meter. 218 micrograms per cubic meter of iron exist in the photosphere along with 130 micrograms of silicon and 192 micrograms of Nitrogen and 116 micrograms of magnesium.

With 14.7 grams per square meter, assuming carbon construction and 0.92 milligrams of carbon per cubic meter, it takes mining the photosphere to a depth of 16 km to gather enough material to replicate the machine cells from the solar environment. This occurs in time frames of a minute or so.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/tsunami.htm

Extracting carbon from Earth's atmosphere means compressing it from 0.4% to 100% density, and then converting it to elemental carbon. First by extracting hydrogen from water, and using the hydrogen to create methane from CO2.. Then, breaking down the methane to elemental carbon. Thus 5.5 kg of carbon dioxide is reduced to 1.5 kg of carbon through the expenditure of 150 megajoules of energy. A square meter collects 5 gigajoules per year so is capable of producing 50 kg of carbon. That's enough carbon to produce 3401.36 sq meters of collectors. This is a doubling time at the Earth's surface of 2.6 hours.

So, a self replicating solar powered machine single cell, grows to 1 square meter in 81.14 hours massing 14.7 grams. Another 51.82 hours sees that grow to a 14.7 tonnes - and collecting a square kilometer of solar energy. On Earth over the course of a year this collects 55.6 kg of positronium and stores it stably in a crystalline lattice at densities exceeding that of iron. 152.2 grams of positronium is gathered by a square kilometer of collectors in a day.

Now, Earth's speed around the sun is 29.8 km/sec and the escape velocity of the Sun is 617.5 km/sec at its surface. So, for an object to be projected from Earth's surface to the Sun's surface requires a total delta vee of 647.3 km/sec.

By ejecting material at this speed from a spacecraft minimises the energy required to lift a payload through this delta vee. This means that each kg of payload requires 1.72 kg of propellant. This in turn requires 360.34 gigajoules of energy to power it. About 4 milligrams of positronium per kilogram of payload. This is 37.9 metric tons may be projected with 152.2 grams of positronium.

A little over two square kilometers of solar collecting cells. It takes 64.6 days to fall from Earth orbit to the Sun's surface in free fall. Every day 207.8 tonnes of positronium is positronium is projected from the Sun..

Even on Earth this technology is wonderous. The machine cells operate as self replicating utility fog to make anything.

Consider a one gee boost from Earth to moon and back. With two gees at lift off and 1+1/6 gee at lunar landing and lift off - we add the escape velocities to the velocity it takes to cover the Earth moon distance in this way.. To traverse 384,400 km at one gee requires 3.478 hours. This requires a delta vee of 245.59 km/sec. This 51.87 gigajoules per kg. 263.3 tons of payload and structure may be sent to the moon and returned to Earth each day from the square kilometer collector. This collector may occupy 100 sq km of ocean area, and be hardly noticed. The 14.7 tonnes of machine cells may circulate around the area, and deposit the materials they gather at a central location, forming into the requisite vehicle.

Now, a Boeing 737 carries 17.5 tonnes and masses no more than 70.0 tonnes at lift off. It carries up to 140 persons. In private configurations this is reduced to 14 persons.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/#/gallery

So, four BBJ can be sent to the moon and return to Earth each day - carrying between 56 and 560 persons persons per day or 70 tonnes of payload per day.

This prior to operating on the solar surface.

The present distance of Mars from Earth is 109 million km. Boosting at one gee half that distance and then slowing at one gee the other half, it takes 58.6 hours to get to Mars at one gee. Top speed is 1033.9 km/sec. Total delta vee is 4150 km/sec. A 10.9 sq km area on Earth is required to collect sufficient positronium to send a 70 ton vehicle and payload to Mars and back at one gee - once per week.

Mining positronium from the solar surface, where 200 tonnes per day of Positronium, is an interesting figure. 5 tonnes per year is required to produce all of the $2 trillion per year in primary energy on Earth. The bulk of the remaining material is equivalent to 1.3 million times what the 1 sq km collects on Earth. This is sufficient to project. 5.2 million flights to the moon at one gee per day! An amazing figure. 20,000 Mars trips per day - another amazing figure.

A one gee flight to alpha centauri, 4.3 light years away, it takes 5.9293 years Earth time for the ship to make its journey. It takes 3.5603 years ship time due to relativistic effects! Top speed is 95.052% light speed. This requires a propellant fraction of 84.08% positronium per boost. This is 97.463% positronium and 2.537% payload and structure. 200 tonnes of positronium lifts 5.2 tonnes of payload and structure. Once every two weeks a 70 tonne vehicle fueled 2700 tonnes of Positronium in an 8.65 meter diameter sphere, can be dispatched from Earth, toward alpha centauri.

The ship arrives at alpha centauri, and deploys another solar collector array on the surface of alpha centauri, to refuel and return, or continue on the journey around the cosmos.

For stars farther than 4.3 light years away, the same technology works. Only the ship boosts for 2.15 light years at the start and 2.15 light years at the end, and at 95% light speed the ship traverses 3.04 light years per year of ship time (3.20 years of star time). So, coasting for 10 years after boost, the ship traverses 34.7 light years.

The distance to Ceres at the present moment is 392.8 million km. To travel from Earth to Ceres at one gee requires a delta vee of 7850 km/sec. That's 2.58% positronium fraction using photonic thrust. Using 1.72 kg of inert propellant for every 1.00 kg of payload and structure, requires far less positronium. This is 589 milligrams per kilogram. Or 0.589 kg per metric ton of payload. 43.87x the payload for a given amount of positronium, if you have inert mass to throw away!

It takes 4.63 days to travel to Ceres from Earth at one gee at its current distance of 392.8 million km.

Current sky positon of Ceres;

2 h 18 m 16.7 s RA
2 deg 12' 18.51" declination

Le 28/07/2016 Ã* 08:34, William Mook a écrit :
The most interesting aspect of this system is that the intensity of light

circulating in the system if far higher than the intensity of light as the

surface of most stars. This is true also with photonic thrusters.


Wouldn't this be quite difficult to handle?

If temperature is like in a star surface (5 500C) I know of no materials
that resist anything near such temperature. How would the spacecraft work?

This means that the technology that permits compact laser light sails, or photonic thrusters,

also permits the capture of energy directly on a star's surface!

Yes, you are saying that a "sail" in the sun surface will receive quite
a hit from the photons emitted. Sure. But how do you get a "spacecraft"
hover over the sun?

You better have a good air conditioning...

:-)



Self replicating machine systems, that extract metals from a star's atmosphere to replicate,

Yes, you can extract metals from the sun if you want. But all that is
just science fiction for now. If your theory is correct, however, it
would mean that you can build complex structures at 5 500C. That would
mean that life is possible in the surface of the sun.

We have a limited knowledge of the atoms that are possible (Uranium is
the last at 90 something if memory serves). Trans uranium elements could
be abundant in the sun since they are much heavier and would concentrate
in the sun from the original cloud that gave birth to the
sun and to the planets. They could have properties and stability bounds
that are unknown to us.

But trans-uranium elements tend to be more and more UNSTABLE with atomic
weight. Obese elements beyond 110 or so decay in fractions of
a second.

I just do not see any materials that could organize in 5 500C. Maybe
because I never went walking in the surface of the sun, obviously, and I
have no idea of how could stuff organize there.

Using the abundant energy there, permits rapid conversion of the sun's
output to useful forms.

Sure, lack of energy is not the problem at 5 500C. The problem is that
there is too much energy around to organize any atoms that we know of.

Another unknown is the magnetic field, that can lower temperature. A
strong magnetic field can lower temperatures to 3 000 C (sun spot's
lowest temp), and maybe it is possible that much stronger fields to
lower the temperature even more. So, a replicating machine (i.e. a
living thing) would need an ENORMOUS magnetic shield.

How big?

Can such a field be present in the sun, lowering the temperature to
(say) a confortable 35C ?

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 6:19:30 AM UTC+12, jacob navia wrote:
Le 28/07/2016 Ã* 08:34, William Mook a écrit :
The most interesting aspect of this system is that the intensity of light

circulating in the system if far higher than the intensity of light as the

surface of most stars. This is true also with photonic thrusters.


Wouldn't this be quite difficult to handle?

Depends on the details.


If temperature is like in a star surface (5 500C) I know of no materials
that resist anything near such temperature. How would the spacecraft work?

Consider a sheet of glass near the solar surface that operates up to 1 800 K (1 527 C) and is 99% transparent. So, 62 megawatts of light is flowing through each square meter. Yet only 0.62 megawatts is being absorbed by each square meter. Now each sheet of glass has a front and a back totalling two square meters of emitter area per square meter of collector area. This is 0.31 megawatts per square meter. Using Stephan Boltzmann law, we can see that the operating temperature of the glass with this transparency is 1 529 K (1 256 C).

This is how lasers operate at 28 kW/cm2 (the sun emits at 6.2 kW/cm2) without melting their windows or themselves.

GBO film, from which photonic thrusters are made, are 99.99% efficient.

https://research.cems.umn.edu/macosk..._shows/gbo.pdf

So, a sheet of this materials absorbs only 6,200 Watts per square meter and emits only 3,100 Watts per square meter when reflecting 62 megawatts per square meter. This is only 484 K (211 C) which is warm, but allows electronics and photonics to operate efficiently.

This means that the technology that permits compact laser light sails, or photonic thrusters,

also permits the capture of energy directly on a star's surface!

Yes, you are saying that a "sail" in the sun surface will receive quite
a hit from the photons emitted. Sure. But how do you get a "spacecraft"
hover over the sun?

The sun is a sphere, nearly isotropic, so flux is largely a function of radius only. You enter a Hohmann transfer orbit slowing from 29.76 km/sec to 2.86 km/sec by imparting 26.9 km/sec to the satellite.

Starting at Earth 149.5 million km from Sol, after doing this, you drop to near the solar surface 695,000 km from Sol center, skirting around the surface 65 days later zipping by at a speed of 619.56 km/sec!

Now if nothing is done, you will find yourself back at Earth orbit (but not at Earth) 65 days later, 130 days after you left. The Earth will have moved 30% around its orbit. But, by slowing to 436.56 km/sec at perihelion puts you in a stable orbit just above the solar surface! This means you've got to shed 179.40 km/sec at perihelion.

Imparting 29.90 km/sec to a spacecraft at Earth so that it enters a POLAR orbit perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit (the ecliptic) at 2.86 km/sec - the spacecraft falls into a polar orbit above the sun. Slowing it at perihelion to enter a tight circular orbit above the solar surface, and changing the plane of the spacecraft's orbit, to be normal to Earth's position as it enters the orbit, and then due to the way the Sun's equator bulges and the speed at which the Sun spins, the plane of the orbit is dragged precisely to maintain its orientation with respect to Earth's position in the solar sky, remaining synchronous with the Earth. This is a geosynchronous orbit of the second type. The advantage here is that whilst the solar power satellite remains close to the sun, it also remains visible at all times to the Earth!

You better have a good air conditioning...

Yes. that is achieved by careful selection and management of materials.

Remember, Young Bae has already built systems that operate at several times the intensity of the solar surface in his lab. Laser manufacturers routinely make windows that pass light at many many times the intensity of the solar surface.

:-)



Self replicating machine systems, that extract metals from a star's atmosphere to replicate,

Yes, you can extract metals from the sun if you want. But all that is
just science fiction for now.

No its not. Self replicating machinery was first built by Vik Oliver in 2005 using additive manufacturing techniques. Progress has been steady since that time.

A laser microprobe mass spectrometer (LMMS), also laser microprobe mass analyzer (LAMMA), laser ionization mass spectrometer (LIMS), or laser ionization mass analyzer (LIMA) is a mass spectrometer that uses a focused laser for microanalysis. These systems employ local ionization by a pulsed laser and subsequent mass analysis of the generated ions. The plasma streams are hotter than the solar plasma.

Plasma-enhanced chemical vapor deposition (PECVD) is a process used to deposit thin films from a plasma state to a solid state on a substrate. Chemical reactions may be induced in the process, which occur after creation of a plasma of the reacting materials. The plasma streams are hotter than the solar plasmas. PECVD has been used in additive manufacturing.

Its relatively straightforward to take a pre-existing plasma from the solar wind, extract the desired materials from it, and create daughter panels from parent panels.

If your theory is correct,

Its not a theory, its a fact. Self replicating machines are here. PECVD already operates at temperatures above that found at the solar surface. Photonic thrusters and lasers already operate at intensities in excess of that found on the solar surface.

however, it
would mean that you can build complex structures at 5 500C.

No it doesn't. It means that you must be 99.99% efficient in handling the energy flows. That is all. This level of efficiency is routinely achieved in optical fibers, laser windows, particle accelerators, photonic thrusters - today.

That would
mean that life is possible in the surface of the sun.

Living systems naturally evolved are a different subject entirely. It depends on your definition of life. Any human designed product even though it may be capable of evolution lacks any history in the cosmos, so it is a distinctly different thing than living systems with billions of years of evolution under their belt.

There is energy there certainly and material in the sun. However, any life form naturally occurring in the solar environment would have to exist as a plasma - so we're talking about pattens in plasma now. I'm talking about an engineered product introduced from outside that replicates and extracts energy and delivers it back to its makers.

We have a limited knowledge of the atoms that are possible (Uranium is
the last at 90 something if memory serves).

92

Trans uranium elements could
be abundant

No, they are not. We don't have to guess. We an look at the sun with a spectrophotometer. Since every material in the lab has a specific fingerprint of colour, and we know that pattern well, we can look for it in the solar environment. This is how we know for sure the precise mix of materials we see on the solar surface. This is how a device will recognise one atom from another, and select and cool those it seeks to assemble into copies of itself.

in the sun since they are much heavier and would concentrate
in the sun from the original cloud that gave birth to the
sun and to the planets. They could have properties and stability bounds
that are unknown to us.

Not really.


But trans-uranium elements tend to be more and more UNSTABLE with atomic
weight.

The energy per nucleon is well known. Isotopes with atomic weights less than Iron 56 have more energy per nucleon than Iron 56, and that energy rises as they get smaller. That means as you fuse these atomic nuclei together, energy is released. Ditto for things heavier than Iron 56. So, that means as you break these atomic nuclei apart, energy is released. Fission.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...otopes.svg.png

Obese elements beyond 110 or so decay in fractions of
a second.

Stability is different than energy. Only a few isotopes are suitable for self sustaining fission or efficient fusion.

I just do not see any materials that could organize in 5 500C.

That's not a requirement for the reasons given above.

Maybe
because I never went walking in the surface of the sun,

You would vaporise long before you got there. Not so with our machines that are carefully designed to operate in that environment.

obviously, and I
have no idea of how could stuff organize there.

You organise and engineer it on Earth to operate efficiently in the proposed environment without overheating and launch it from here to operate there.

Using the abundant energy there, permits rapid conversion of the sun's
output to useful forms.

Correct.

Sure, lack of energy is not the problem at 5 500C.

The temperature is the result of energy release, not the other way around. Fact is, windows and mirrors lasers and lamps operate today at intensities greater than the solar surface without a problem.

The problem is that
there is too much energy around to organize any atoms that we know of.

That depends on entropy which is different from energy and there is no problem at these levels. The materials caught in the sun's gravity field irradiated by the intense energies found there get hot and they glow and give us light here on Earth. However, machinery has already been built that operate at intensities greater than the sun. Lasers, lamps, photonic thrusters, all have been built. So, its a matter of engineering, nothing else.

Another unknown is the magnetic field,

No, Maxwell figured that one out in the 19th century.

http://www.santarosa.edu/~lwillia2/4...Derivation.pdf

that can lower temperature.

Magnetic refrigerators have been built. More importantly, electrostatics and electromagnetics can deflect and stochastically cool plasmas - as can optical molasses.

Stochastic cooling is a form of particle beam cooling. It is used in some particle accelerators and storage rings to control the emittance of the particle beams in the machine. This process uses the electrical signals that the individual charged particles generate in a feedback loop to reduce the tendency of individual particles to move away from the other particles in the beam. It is accurate to think of this as adiabatic cooling, or the reduction of entropy, in much the same way that a refrigerator or an air conditioner cools its contents.

https://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0308044

Optical molasses is a laser cooling technique that can cool down neutral atoms to temperatures colder than a magneto-optical trap (MOT). An optical molasses consists of 3 pairs of counter-propagating circularly polarized laser beams intersecting in the region where the atoms are present. The main difference between optical molasses and a MOT is the absence of magnetic field in the former. While a typical Sodium MOT can cool atoms down to 300μK, optical molasses can cool the atoms down to 40μK, an order of magnitude colder.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...30401875901595


A
strong magnetic field can lower temperatures to 3 000 C (sun spot's
lowest temp), and maybe it is possible that much stronger fields to
lower the temperature even more. So, a replicating machine (i.e. a
living thing) would need an ENORMOUS magnetic shield.

Not really. As I mentioned careful observation of individual ions in plasmas surrounding a device ALREADY cool plasmas hotter than the BIG BANG! (far hotter than the sun!) to micro-kelvin temperatures. So, its only a matter of engineering to create devices that monitor ions surrounding them in the solar plasma and provide feedback to cool the ones we want while letting the others pass by without impacting the device.


How big?

You start with millimeter sized devices that self replicate on Earth, and then have them swarm together to create a rocket to fly off Earth as described and enter a solar orbit as described. You then harvest the solar wind above the photosphere cooling it as described and assemble copies of the original device.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1t4M2XnIhI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYz7g-qLjs

Can such a field be present in the sun, lowering the temperature to
(say) a confortable 35C ?

You don't get the fact that handling energy flows through the device with 99.99% efficiency maintain reasonable temperatures. Using stochastic cooling and optical molasses, any temperature within a device can be maintained efficiently.

If you wanted to survive in a cabin orbiting near the solar surface you would have to surround it with efficient optics to make it invisible to the solar surface. Such invisibility technology is common place;

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...nal_perfec.jpg

You can even do it yourself.

http://www.addictootech.com/invisibi...oaking-device/

So, even while the 99.99% efficient optics surrounding your cabin rise to 210 C - with appropriate insulation and cooling you could maintain a comfortable cabin temperature inside.

In this way, material gathered from the solar environment is cooled and processed into finished goods of any type or size.

To minimise costs you build a flexible array of robots that cooperate in the solar environment to build large objects whose designs you send to the growing infrastructure on the solar surface.

Quite practical systems are available today - all that's required is engineering. The science and even the processes are well defined and well understood. All we lack is a general appreciation of the capabilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUeyfLIGtLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvN9Ri1GmuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSCshIq_GK4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXY7R2op_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18EdAKuC1U

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10....05-6_14#page-1

So, we build machine cells out of diamondoids and plastics. These cells collect sunlight rain and carbon-dioxide in the air to process into semiconductive and other active optical components in the plastics and diamond.

Typically these materials consist of a polyester, a polyethylene (PET H-[C10H8O4]-n) or a polypropylene (PP [CH3]-n), or similar compound, in addition to diamond.

Polyester is a synthetic polymer made of purified terephthalic acid (PTA C6H4(CO2H)2) or its dimethyl ester dimethyl terephthalate (DMT C6H4(COOCH3)2) and monoethylene glycol (MEG C2H6O2).

Solar power is used to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen.
4 H2O + energy --- 4 H2 + 2 O2

Carbon dioxide is reduced to methane and water using the Sabatier process
CO2 + 4 H2 --- CH4 + 2 H2O

The methane is reduced and if needed oxidised to produce the required molecule;

2 CH4 + energy --- 2 CH3 + H2 (PP)
7 CH4 + 2 O2 + energy --- C6H4(COOCH3)2 (DMT) + 9 H2
2 CH4 + O2 + energy --- C2H6O2 (MEG) + H2
CH4 + energy --- C + 2 H2 (DIAMOND)

etc.

These are assembled onto surfaces, in active patterns, and they are folded up into functional units at the molecular level, creating functioning nano-machinery that operate very efficiently.

As stated in previous posts above, accelerator on a chip make possible efficient production of positronium pairs from sunlight, and its storage on board a sparse quasi crystal at densities exceeding that of iron (8 g/cc) with conversion efficiency exceeding 85%.

Using a 15 um diameter cells assemble to produce a sheet approximately equivalent to 10 um thickness in terms of areal density. About 28 grams per square meter. That's 28 metric tons per square kilometer. Replication times on Earth are limited to a few hours, due to low energy. Average replication times are in the 2 to 2.5 hour range on Earth depending on season or weather or location.

So, a single 15 um machine cell robot doubling every 2.4 hours - grows to 1000 machine cells in a day. A million machine cells in two days. A billion machine cells in three days. A kilogram of machine cells in four days. A tonne of machine cells in five days. 1000 tonnes of machine cells in six days covering 35.7 square kilometers. 35.7 billion watts of peak power, creating 2.06 kilograms of Positronium per year! Spreading out to sea covering 35,700 square kilometers, and circulating back to a collection centre after a year, makes the operation nearly invisible!

Ejecting material out of the rocket at 210 km/sec minimises energy use, and for an energy limited system, maximises payload to solar perihelion. 2.06 kg of positronium have sufficient energy to accelerate 8,408 metric tons of propellant to a 210 km/sec exhaust speed. This is sufficient to transfer 4,893 tonnes to the Sun.

However, limiting our population to 1000 tonnes means in 75 days of collection we have sufficient energy to project the entire system to the solar surface - or an orbit very near it. This collection after 65 day to transfer it to the solar surface, will collect 732.6 tonnes of positronium per year.. Humanity uses energy at a rate of 4 tonnes of massenergy per year, so this mechanism will permit the capture of the world's energy markets and provide substantial capacity to process materials on Earth or on and around the Sun and the other planets.

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 11:45:47 AM UTC+12, William Mook wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUeyfLIGtLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvN9Ri1GmuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSCshIq_GK4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXY7R2op_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18EdAKuC1U

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10....05-6_14#page-1

So, we build machine cells out of diamondoids and plastics. These cells collect sunlight rain and carbon-dioxide in the air to process into semiconductive and other active optical components in the plastics and diamond.

Typically these materials consist of a polyester, a polyethylene (PET H-[C10H8O4]-n) or a polypropylene (PP [CH3]-n), or similar compound, in addition to diamond.

Polyester is a synthetic polymer made of purified terephthalic acid (PTA C6H4(CO2H)2) or its dimethyl ester dimethyl terephthalate (DMT C6H4(COOCH3)2) and monoethylene glycol (MEG C2H6O2).

Solar power is used to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen.
4 H2O + energy --- 4 H2 + 2 O2

Carbon dioxide is reduced to methane and water using the Sabatier process
CO2 + 4 H2 --- CH4 + 2 H2O

The methane is reduced and if needed oxidised to produce the required molecule;

2 CH4 + energy --- 2 CH3 + H2 (PP)
7 CH4 + 2 O2 + energy --- C6H4(COOCH3)2 (DMT) + 9 H2
2 CH4 + O2 + energy --- C2H6O2 (MEG) + H2
CH4 + energy --- C + 2 H2 (DIAMOND)

etc.

These are assembled onto surfaces, in active patterns, and they are folded up into functional units at the molecular level, creating functioning nano-machinery that operate very efficiently.

As stated in previous posts above, accelerator on a chip make possible efficient production of positronium pairs from sunlight, and its storage on board a sparse quasi crystal at densities exceeding that of iron (8 g/cc) with conversion efficiency exceeding 85%.

Using a 15 um diameter cells assemble to produce a sheet approximately equivalent to 10 um thickness in terms of areal density. About 28 grams per square meter. That's 28 metric tons per square kilometer. Replication times on Earth are limited to a few hours, due to low energy. Average replication times are in the 2 to 2.5 hour range on Earth depending on season or weather or location.

So, a single 15 um machine cell robot doubling every 2.4 hours - grows to 1000 machine cells in a day. A million machine cells in two days. A billion machine cells in three days. A kilogram of machine cells in four days. A tonne of machine cells in five days. 1000 tonnes of machine cells in six days covering 35.7 square kilometers. 35.7 billion watts of peak power, creating 2.06 kilograms of Positronium per year! Spreading out to sea covering 35,700 square kilometers, and circulating back to a collection centre after a year, makes the operation nearly invisible!

Ejecting material out of the rocket at 210 km/sec minimises energy use, and for an energy limited system, maximises payload to solar perihelion. 2..06 kg of positronium have sufficient energy to accelerate 8,408 metric tons of propellant to a 210 km/sec exhaust speed. This is sufficient to transfer 4,893 tonnes to the Sun.

However, limiting our population to 1000 tonnes means in 75 days of collection we have sufficient energy to project the entire system to the solar surface - or an orbit very near it. This collection after 65 day to transfer it to the solar surface, will collect 732.6 tonnes of positronium per year. Humanity uses energy at a rate of 4 tonnes of massenergy per year, so this mechanism will permit the capture of the world's energy markets and provide substantial capacity to process materials on Earth or on and around the Sun and the other planets.

On Earth replication rates are power limited. On the Sun replication rates are material limited. Even so, replication rates are 84x faster on the Sun than on Earth.

Solar composition above the photosphere consists primarily of;

Isotope by Mass by Count

Hydrogen-1 705,700 909,964
Helium-4 4 275,200 88,714
Oxygen-16 5,920 477
Carbon-12 3,032 326
Nitrogen-14 1,105 102
Neon-20 1,548 100

Others: 3,879 149
Silicon-28 653 30
Magnesiu-24 513 28
Iron-56 1,169 27
Sulfur-32 396 16
Helium-3 35 15
Hydrogen-2 23 15

So, we can see that 3 ppm by weight of carbon in combination with the nearly 6 ppm by weight of oxygen, and 70.5% by weight hydrogen, provide all the materials we need to make the same panels we made on Earth, from air and rainwater. Namely, carbon, oxygen and hydrogen to make diamonds and plastics..

Particle accelerators on a chip exist within mirrored volumes that exert electric, magnetic and light pressures to efficiently pass energy and materials around them extracting only what is required for their efficient operation. The solar environment exerts drag, however, copious power in combination with the need to pass nearly all material around an orbiting object, gives a low orbiter the ability to operate an electrostatic solar powered jet that produces thrust by electromagnetically accelerating hydrogen and helium ions around a panel.

The density of materials in this region of the Sun is 2*10^-4 kg/m3 a near vacuum! An object orbits the sun every 2.3 hours - travelling at 436.56 km/sec. Hear each square meter normal to the direction of travel encounters 87.312 kg per square meter per second. Only 3 ppm is carbon. Thus it takes 106 seconds at 3 ppm to extract all the carbon needed to extend a square meter by another square meter. This produces drag, but since the bulk of material is passed around the device using electromagnetic forces, this bulk material may be accelerated to produce thrust to counter this slight drag.

Since the interplanetary navigation from Earth was done correctly, the satellite is in an orbital plane normal to the line connecting the center of the Sun and Earth. The solar collector plane is normal to the solar surface. The satellite is always visible and in communication with Earth despite it orbiting the Sun 10x per day. It also has no opportunity to cast a shadow on Earth but can alway project material or energy to Earth any time that is desired.

Just as orbital precession makes sun synchronous orbits possible on Earth, so too does orbital precession around the sun make a second type of geo synchronous orbit of the type just described possible on the Sun.

Le 06/08/2016 Ã* 16:30, William Mook a écrit :
Consider a sheet of glass near the solar surface that operates up to

1 800 K (1 527 C) and is 99% transparent. So, 62 megawatts of light is

flowing through each square meter.

Yet only 0.62 megawatts is being absorbed by each square meter.

Now each sheet of glass has a front and a back totalling two square

meters of emitter area per square meter of collector area. This

is 0.31 megawatts per square meter. Using Stephan Boltzmann law,

we can see that the operating temperature of the glass with this

transparency is 1 529 K (1 256 C).


OK. After that figures I can even imagine that a 99% transparent glass
can resist at 1256 C.

Again, that doesn't at all mean that a working machine or structure can
be done with the 1% mass that rests. 1256 C is quite hot reaally, and I
do not know any electronics that can resist 200 C to be optimistic,
maybe 500 C OK?

A new kind of electronics needs to be inserted into that glass atom by
atom because we have only 1% mass left and the less the better.

Everything would be running at 1529 C. It is feasible in the far future,
there is no difficulty of principle and such a spacecraft doesn't
violate any law of physics, as physics is today.

So, we can imagine it, a 99% transparent craft that hovers at 1529 C
several Km over the sun. Its nervous system is embedded in the
transparent material and differs from it by a very tiny amount. Atom
thick wires and a very strong magnetic field allow the spacecraft to
hover slowly and look at the waves in the surface below.

The first such a craft launched from the Mercury base late evening on
March 1st, 2178. Inside were 3 people from 3 different planets that
gathered to try it. They were confident in the thing since many other
craft were already surfing around, unmanned.

What was the point of going there, asked himself the man at the command
software. Why?

Many answers popped the mind, and he had already answered those
questions to himself many times; he wasn't a guy that would embark in
such a trip without reflecting about it.

He had decided that humans can prove that they can go anywhere really.
Even there.

In snap, the order went out and the spacecraft launched smoothly from
Mercury's orbit.

Into the sun.

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 6:21:03 AM UTC+12, jacob navia wrote:
Le 06/08/2016 Ã* 16:30, William Mook a écrit :
Consider a sheet of glass near the solar surface that operates up to

1 800 K (1 527 C) and is 99% transparent. So, 62 megawatts of light is

flowing through each square meter.

Yet only 0.62 megawatts is being absorbed by each square meter.

Now each sheet of glass has a front and a back totalling two square

meters of emitter area per square meter of collector area. This

is 0.31 megawatts per square meter. Using Stephan Boltzmann law,

we can see that the operating temperature of the glass with this

transparency is 1 529 K (1 256 C).


OK. After that figures I can even imagine that a 99% transparent glass
can resist at 1256 C.

Again, that doesn't at all mean that a working machine or structure can
be done with the 1% mass that rests. 1256 C is quite hot reaally, and I
do not know any electronics that can resist 200 C to be optimistic,
maybe 500 C OK?

A lens is a machine. A mirror a machine as well. An optical fibre is a machine. A set of lenses and mirrors and optical fiberscan be crafted to pass light around a region leaving it in the dark - invisible to the sun regardless of the light passing around it.

https://cdn4.dogonews.com/images/db2...420-medium.jpg

Optical fibres, lenses and mirrors routinely operate at power levels that vaporise steel without absorbing any heat themselves and are used to control intense beams light at intensities far greater than that found on the solar surface.

http://www.thefabricator.com/article...n-laser-optics


A new kind of electronics needs to be inserted into that glass atom by
atom because we have only 1% mass left and the less the better.

I'm not tracking what you're saying here. It makes no sense to me what you're saying.

Everything would be running at 1529 C.

Not necessarily. I just gave that as an example - a real device would operate at temperatures below room temperature.

It is feasible in the far future,

No, I pointed to two devices that are operational today. These operate at intensities far greater than that found on the solar surface.

there is no difficulty of principle and such a spacecraft doesn't
violate any law of physics, as physics is today.

Correct! Surrounded by materials that already exist, regions can be maintained at any temperatures, regardless of the temperature outside.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6254/1310

So, we can imagine it, a 99% transparent craft that hovers at 1529 C
several Km over the sun.

We ALREADY have materials that are 99.9999% transparent and so they operate at well below room temperature. And they don't hover mysteriously over the sun, they orbit near the sun at over 400 km/sec.

Its nervous system is embedded in the
transparent material and differs from it by a very tiny amount.

The materials are whatever the materials need to be certainly. P type semiconductors are only slightly different from N type semiconductors depending on the dopants used.

Atom
thick wires and a very strong magnetic field allow the spacecraft to
hover slowly and look at the waves in the surface below.

Its easier to maintain an orbit near the sun, and use off-the-shelf stochastic technology to keep the plasma from heating up the optics too much.

The first such a craft launched from the Mercury base late evening on
March 1st, 2178.

Well, you can write science fiction, I'm talking about what's possible to do today with appropriate engineering. Its best to launch a craft into a low solar orbit from far away. Recall, we have to cancel 30 km/sec at Earth orbit. We have to cancel 48 km/sec at Mercury - and then send everything to Mercury first to do that. Far easier to send a craft to Jupiter - from Earth - this requires only 9 km/sec. Then, we can use the gravity of Jupiter, and its motion around the sun, to cancel the spacecraft's speed as it flies past without any further inputs. Solar sails operating near perihelion efficiently bring the spacecraft into circular orbit above the solar surface.

Inside were 3 people from 3 different planets that
gathered to try it. They were confident in the thing since many other
craft were already surfing around, unmanned.

Well, with an invisibility cloak, the energies surrounding the spacecraft are directed efficiently around it, giving us the ability to build a cabin that operates at any temperature we like.

What was the point of going there, asked himself the man at the command
software. Why?

Because each square meter produces energy at a rate of 1,000 barrels of oil per day. 970 hectares of collectors have the potential to capture enough energy to power all of human industry today.

Many answers popped the mind, and he had already answered those
questions to himself many times; he wasn't a guy that would embark in
such a trip without reflecting about it.

No one would pay for the trip unless there was a practical reason. Abundant energy captured and stored in the form of positronium molecules stored at the density of iron.

He had decided that humans can prove that they can go anywhere really.
Even there.

shrug If you want to travel close to the speed of light across interstellar distances, you need many times the massenergy of your payload in the form of antimatter/matter mixture. A positron and electron forming a positronium molecule in combination with a second positronium molecule, can be made into a molecule that has an indefinite lifetime at high densities. These molecules can be controllably converted back to energy in a photonic crystal to produce a collimated stream of photons producing a photon rocket.

The only way to efficiently capture energy on the scale needed is to operate on or near the solar surface, or the surface of any star! We already handle light energy at levels that vaporise steel instantly. All it takes is engineering with known processes to make the sorts of products I'm talking about here.

In snap, the order went out and the spacecraft launched smoothly from
Mercury's orbit.

Into the sun.

Science is different than science fiction. We have the technology today to operate on the surface of the sun. No one is served by pretending we do not.

Le 11/08/2016 Ã* 11:15, William Mook a écrit :

I wrote:
He had decided that humans can prove that they can go anywhere really.
Even there.
Mr Mook answers:

quote

shrug If you want to travel close to the speed of light across

interstellar distances, you need many times the massenergy of your

payload in the form of antimatter/matter mixture.

A positron and electron forming a positronium molecule in combination

with a second positronium molecule, can be made into a molecule that

has an indefinite lifetime at high densities.
end quote


Yes, and they explode with any contact with any matter.
What is missing in your viewpoint is the fact that we have IN THEORY
those technologies but not even the beginning of a craft capable of
hovering near the surface of the sun, excuse me. What you say is right
in principle but, as everyone knows, no one is building those crafts now.

Mr Mook says:
These molecules can be controllably converted back to energy in a

photonic crystal to produce a collimated stream of photons producing a
photon rocket.

Yes but they explode in contact with any matter. Do we have the
technology to put a magnetic bottle encapsulating anti-matter into
a spacecraft today?

In principle, yes, but in practice?


The only way to efficiently capture energy on the scale needed is to operate

on or near the solar surface, or the surface of any star!

Yes, star travel is difficult. Much more difficult than what a primitive
society like ours is capable of. Before going to the
stars we have to evolve a bit yet.

Mr Mook argues:

We already handle light energy at levels that vaporise steel instantly.

Yes. But in a spacecraft? I do not see any plans anywhere.


All it takes is engineering with known processes to make the sorts of
products I'm talking about here.

It takes the will and the interest of many humans. And they do not have it.

That is why I think humans will not get any further technological
advances before they evolve a bit.


In snap, the order went out and the spacecraft launched smoothly from
Mercury's orbit.

Into the sun.
Science is different than science fiction.

Yes. Science fiction is where the imagination tells science where it
should go.

Mr Mook continues:
We have the technology today to operate on the surface of the sun. No
one is served by pretending we do not.


I know that we have several machines in different places that could be
made smaller and put in a spacecraft to go into the sun.

What I dispute is that the will to do that will come only for some
ulterior reason and not because humans have evolved to being able to
understand why the surface of the sun is a place to go.

That is why I think it is for the next century or so. I do not see any
evolution of mankind to a real space faring civilization any time soon.

Mostly we are busy fighting wars and producing weapons of mass
destruction. We kill each other happily in our favorite passtime:

war and destruction.

We are just not qualified. We are too primitive, unable to throw away
the animal in us and become really humans. War, destruction, and
pollution are our best games.

Organized in around 170 tribes, we wage wars, we pollute, and we kill
each other in big numebrs. War must be fun, because that game (that we
inherit directly from our monkey ancestors) is our main source of
effort.

Space exploration (like many other things) is a by product of that game.

A more evolved society would distribute ressource more rationally, and
instead of wasting efforts in destruction would put the efforts of
everyone into goals like space exploration and harvesting the sun.

Go tell that we can go to the sun to the republicans/democrats what have
you in the U.S. congress. You see the problem Mr Mook?

That's why I believe in science fiction.

:-)

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:31:53 AM UTC+12, jacob navia wrote:
Le 11/08/2016 Ã* 11:15, William Mook a écrit :

I wrote:
He had decided that humans can prove that they can go anywhere really.
Even there.
Mr Mook answers:

quote

shrug If you want to travel close to the speed of light across

interstellar distances, you need many times the massenergy of your

payload in the form of antimatter/matter mixture.

A positron and electron forming a positronium molecule in combination

with a second positronium molecule, can be made into a molecule that

has an indefinite lifetime at high densities.
end quote


Yes, and they explode with any contact with any matter.

Yes, and resistance arises from such contact, yet Bose Einstein condensates are capable of superconductivity by forming Cooper Pairs- This is where electrons pair up and exchange momentum so that they avoid ALL contact with the surrounding material.

Now, extend this to pairs of positronium atoms. Positronium consists of a paired electron and positron - and a positronium molecule consists of two positronium atoms that exchange momenta like Cooper pairs do to extend their lifetime indefinitely. Positron-electron pairs in isolation radiate away energy in a few microseconds. Two positon-electron pairs, linked together as a Cooper Pair live indefinitely and move through crystalline lattices without making contact ever.

What is missing in your viewpoint is the fact that we have IN THEORY
those technologies

Scientists and engineers have demonstrated all the techniques described above in the laboratory and some are used on a routine basis for a number of important tasks.

but not even the beginning of a craft capable of
hovering near the surface of the sun, excuse me.

You are obviously ignorant of the technologies that are used routinely throughout the world that make use of the science described here. We only lack the willingness to consider adapting these techniques to the purpose described.

What you say is right
in principle but, as everyone knows, no one is building those crafts now.

Again, you are plainly ignorant of the techniques I've described and their every-day use and the fact that substantial resources are being put into advances in these areas;

http://www.defensetech.org/2004/10/0...atter-weapons/

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2015/09...d-fusion..html

http://www.geek.com/science/desktop-...holes-1560232/

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/a...less-crazy-now


Mr Mook says:
These molecules can be controllably converted back to energy in a

photonic crystal to produce a collimated stream of photons producing a
photon rocket.

Yes but they explode in contact with any matter.

You're not getting what I'm saying. Positronium pairs are coupled over a range of hundreds of nanometers, three orders of magnitude larger than the lattice spacing. These coupled positronium pairs take the character of a boson and condense into the ground state around the lattice. That way they can exchange forces in such a way that extends their lifetime indefinitely, and like superconductive Cooper Pairs, they can move freely through the lattice without colliding with it - until such time that collision is desired. Then, the bond is broken, through application of laser energy in the region where energy is desired.

Do we have the
technology to put a magnetic bottle encapsulating anti-matter into
a spacecraft today?

That's 20th century technology and is very limited. Modern techniques use spintronics and direct control of the phonon interaction of Positronium pairs with a clear understanding of BCS theory.

In principle, yes, but in practice?

Yes, BCS theory has been used to create a wide range of very sophisticated technologies. BCS refers to of course to John Bardeen, Leon Cooper, and Robert Schrieffer in what is commonly called the BCS theory. A key conceptual element in this theory is the pairing of electrons close to the Fermi level into Cooper pairs through interaction with the crystal lattice. This pairing results from a slight attraction between the electrons related to lattice vibrations; the coupling to the lattice is called a phonon interaction. This allows Cooper Pairs to avoid resistance by avoiding contact with the lattice. It also allows Positronium Pairs to avoid contact and have an indefinite life span.

Pairs of electrons and Pairs of positrons, behave very differently from single electrons or positrons which are fermions and must obey the Pauli exclusion principle. The pairs of electrons act like bosons which can condense into the same energy level. The electron pairs or positron pairs have a slightly lower energy and leave an energy gap above them on the order of .001 eV which inhibits collision interactions which lead to ordinary resistivity in the case of electrons, or explosions, in the case of positrons. For temperatures such that the thermal energy is less than the band gap, the material exhibits zero resistivity and in the case of positrons, infinite life spans.

Bardeen, Cooper, and Schrieffer received the Nobel Prize in 1972 for the development of the theory.




The only way to efficiently capture energy on the scale needed is to operate

on or near the solar surface, or the surface of any star!

Yes, star travel is difficult. Much more difficult than what a primitive
society like ours is capable of.

Not so. We have the technology today, we have had the technology for over 30 years, to do anything we like in the solar system and beyond.

Before going to the
stars we have to evolve a bit yet.

Nonsense. We are ready today.

Mr Mook argues:

We already handle light energy at levels that vaporise steel instantly.

Yes. But in a spacecraft? I do not see any plans anywhere.

Plainly you're not looking.

US-AFRL researcher Young Bae has been building hardware and making plans for over 10 years now;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gr3UtCaREY

https://www.nasa.gov/spacetech/niac/...aseII_bae.html

http://ykbcorp.com/downloads/Bae_pho...ulation..pd f

These are what the Air Force has permitted Dr. Bae to release. There are no doubt classified systems that are far in advance of what is described here.




All it takes is engineering with known processes to make the sorts of
products I'm talking about here.

Yes, and the papers detail what is declassified in that art.

It takes the will and the interest of many humans. And they do not have it.