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Query about Mars



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 25th 03, 10:36 AM
Painius
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Default Query about Mars

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message ...
I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts?

WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly
carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants
can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human
habitation.

So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be
to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the
atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? . . .


Let's say... some forms of life, we'll call them "luman beings," are
searching this section of the galaxy for a new place to live. The
lumans come across our Sun and find that the third planet from the
star has the best overall rating to support their species. But they
just have to make a few... uhm... adjustments to make the planet
perfectly suitable for lumans.

It's unfortunate that these "adjustments" will eradicate all forms of
life presently residing there. But who cares? The lumans are only
interested in making a place for themselves. Other life forms are
insignificant and can be anhilated. For lumans, it's okay to develop
other planets toward more "luman friendliness."

Are we human? or luman?

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp


happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Stardust in the solar wind...
all that is or ever been.
all we see and all we sin...
stardust in the solar wind.

Paine Ellsworth


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  #12  
Old June 27th 03, 03:54 AM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default Query about Mars

David I'm watching what I say. Let me ask you this does Mars atmosphere
have an ozone layer? A very well received theory put together in 1996 by
a German biochemist has the precursors of life may have first formed
around volcanic cracks in the ocean floor. His reasoning the earth's
atmosphere 3.5 billion years ago had no ozone layer. Without a ozone
layer there is no protection against ultraviolet radiation. Not until 3
billion years ago did the earth create an ozone layer and then life took
off. I think there has to be oxygen in the atmosphere to create ozone.
Has the Martian atmosphere some oxygen? I posted not to long ago that
a planet two times bigger than the earth,and lots of surface water
heated by the planet's internal heat could be more beneficial to life
than a planet near a sun,and no way to block out harmful radiation.
Harmful radiation from our sun kills a half million people a year
Still I like our sun,but I'm smart enough to stay in the shade.
Bert .

  #13  
Old June 27th 03, 06:15 AM
David Knisely
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Default Query about Mars

Bert posted:

Let me ask you this does Mars atmosphere
have an ozone layer?


Not like the Earth's. There is a small amount of Ozone in the
atmosphere of Mars (about 0.03 ppm at the surface), but its shielding
effects are fairly small.


Without a ozone
layer there is no protection against ultraviolet radiation.


Life originating in seas and oceans might also have some protection by
being under water.

Has the Martian atmosphere some oxygen?


Yes, it does, although again, the amount is fairly small (Martian
Atmospheric composition at the surface: 95.32% Carbon Dioxide, 2.7%
Nitrogen, 1.6% Argon, 0.13% Oxygen (diatomic), 0.03% Water Vapor, ect.).


--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club:
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************
  #14  
Old June 28th 03, 07:31 AM
David Knisely
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Default Query about Mars

Bert posted:

Lets say that these Christmas Mars landers all land(that is
doubtful)


Well, there are no *landings* (note the plural) scheduled for
Christmas. There is only one landing scheduled for that day (the
British Beagle-2). The only other landings will be the Mars Exploration
Rovers, and they are scheduled to reach Mars in January of 2004
("Spirit" will reach Mars on January 4th). Unlike you, I am hopeful at
least one of these landers will make it down successfully.

Lets say half of their probing equipment works.


Lets say more than 80% works.

They find
nothing more than what the 1962 Mars lander showed us (dust and rock.)


What?!! There was *NO* Mars lander in 1962! We hadn't even soft landed
on the moon in 1962, and the first probe to Mars didn't get there until
1965! A successful Martian soft landing was not achieved until July
20th, 1976 with the Viking-1 lander, so again, you are off by about 14
years! The last lander which reached the surface succesfully was
Pathfinder in July of 1997. Where in the world are you getting your
information??

Would we go back again?


We will as long as questions remain to be answered about Mars (and even
with the new rovers, questions will remain, as many of the more
interesting areas on the planet have yet to be fully explored on the
surface).

I just hope we don't have any antenna
problems,for that has been NASA biggest problem.


Hardly. The biggest problems with NASA are lack of money and a somewhat
lack of vision.
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club:
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 10th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 27-Aug. 1st, 2003, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************
  #15  
Old June 28th 03, 10:10 AM
Jonathan Silverlight
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Default Query about Mars

In message , David Knisely
writes
Bert posted:


I just hope we don't have any antenna
problems,for that has been NASA biggest problem.


Hardly. The biggest problems with NASA are lack of money and a somewhat
lack of vision.


I think he's referring to the Galileo HGA, which crippled that mission,
and possibly the recent problem with SOHO. But why not simply kill-file
the guy? You won't teach him anything.

--
"Roads in space for rockets to travel....four-dimensional roads, curving with
relativity"
Mail to jsilverlight AT merseia.fsnet.co.uk is welcome.
Or visit Jonathan's Space Place http:\\www.merseia.fsnet.co.uk
  #16  
Old June 29th 03, 04:05 AM
Bill Sheppard
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Default Query about Mars

Jonathan S wrote, regarding Bert:

...why not simply kill-file the guy? You
won't teach him anything.


The which Painius responded:

This surprises me, Jonathan! Bert is
sometimes inaccurate and frequently
imprecise, and yet he's rarely off-topic.
More importantly, you have no idea how
much i've learned from David and Bert
as a result of their backnforths.
Sometimes what is perceived by some
as trolling is merely a useful Devil's
Advocate thingie. I'm not saying that Bert does this on purpose, but

it seems that
sometimes this is how it turns out.


Bert has been a benefit and an asset in more ways than one. Besides
Painius' aforementioned example, I have on several occasions grabbed
some 'insights' as a direct result of interacting with Bert. On another
occasion about 3=BD years ago, Bert (then known as Herb) was posting on
the subject of gravity-inertia equivalence. Interacting with Herb, I did
a web search on that subject. Totally fortuitously, I ran onto Henry
Lindner's flowing-space model of gravity and his 'clearing house' of
other people's flowing-space models of gravity(!!). I about fell over.
Up to that moment, I had no idea that other people besides Wolter have
been intuiting the very same model.
So I owe Herb (er, Bert) an unending debt of gratitude
for steering me onto this fortuitous find. Thanks, Bert.

oc

  #17  
Old June 29th 03, 05:18 PM
Bill Sheppard
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Default Query about Mars

Bert wrote,

We here all love science, and that is our
common denominator. =A0


You said it all right there, Bert. Moreover, it don't hurt to apply a
little intuitive extrapolation (IE) 'outside the box' of the visible
cosmos once in a while.

oc

  #18  
Old June 30th 03, 10:59 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default Query about Mars

Hi BV It all came down to politics. New brains came into NASA ,and they
took one look at the Saturn and said it had no wings.(they were aircraft
engineers.from calif.) Just think if they did not scrape the Saturn,and
just improved on it(let it evolve) We would have gotten a bigger bang
for our bucks than staying in low earth orbit for 36 years(yes?) We
missed the chance of a life time to have as you say a base on the moon.
What we have now is nothing. And that is very sad. Bert

  #19  
Old July 1st 03, 03:20 PM
BenignVanilla
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Default Query about Mars

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
Hi BV It all came down to politics. New brains came into NASA ,and they
took one look at the Saturn and said it had no wings.(they were aircraft
engineers.from calif.) Just think if they did not scrape the Saturn,and
just improved on it(let it evolve) We would have gotten a bigger bang
for our bucks than staying in low earth orbit for 36 years(yes?) We
missed the chance of a life time to have as you say a base on the moon.
What we have now is nothing. And that is very sad. Bert


Why did we abandon the Saturn V? Aside from political assumptions, what was
NASA's response/reason?

BV.


  #20  
Old July 2nd 03, 08:16 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default Query about Mars

Hi Jeff What Scott posted is true the Saturn V could build a base on
the moon,but it was not reuseable. The Shuttle on the other hand can go
round and round 300 miles up(low orbit) for 113 orbits,and only blow up
twice. Killing 12 astronauts,and waste 36 years. Seems 40 years ago
there was a choice to build a base on the moon or stay in low orbit for
the next 36 years. I went for the moon,for with the Saturn V its only 3
days away. I have been flamed for going in that direction for all those
years(still am) When you think of outer space you have to think big.
You have to have great vision. We throw billions of dollars
away by not recycling plactic jugs cans,and the Saturn V was not
recyclable but what a bang it gave for the buck. We should have sent
one up to the moon each 4th of July ,and with 36 trips we would have a
base on the moon flying the American flag. Now we have
nothing. Bert

 




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