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Saturn 5 is returning:)



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 19th 12, 12:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1204/18dynetics/
  #2  
Old April 19th 12, 02:18 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

In article 2d9e2408-78a1-47c3-890e-84e7b662cd60
@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com, says...

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1204/18dynetics/

Saturn V is *not* returning.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #3  
Old April 19th 12, 09:07 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Quadibloc
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

On Apr 19, 7:18*am, Jeff Findley wrote:

Saturn V is *not* returning.


Not _exactly_, but the article *was* about the return - yes, really -
of the F-1 engine.

Which is the important part of the Saturn V. A powerful kerosene-
oxygen engine made in the U.S.A. that eliminates the need to rely on
solid boosters for personnelled flight is *really* good news for U.S.
space capabilities.

That would mean the U.S. would finally regain the ground it lost when
the Saturn V was abandoned. That the F-1 engine would be placed in new
rocket designs more closely matching the capabilities desired for
planned future missions is only to be expected, and entirely
desirable.

John Savard
  #4  
Old April 19th 12, 10:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Quadibloc
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

Oh, and here's a less positive news story:

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre...-space-future/

John Savard
  #5  
Old April 19th 12, 10:27 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jochem Huhmann
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

Quadibloc writes:

That would mean the U.S. would finally regain the ground it lost when
the Saturn V was abandoned. That the F-1 engine would be placed in new
rocket designs more closely matching the capabilities desired for
planned future missions is only to be expected, and entirely
desirable.


It would still mean that this launcher would use three totally different
engines on the boosters, first and second stage. With one or two
launches a year this is a receipt for economic disaster.


Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #6  
Old April 19th 12, 11:35 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:27:32 +0200, Jochem Huhmann
wrote:

It would still mean that this launcher would use three totally different
engines on the boosters, first and second stage. With one or two
launches a year this is a receipt for economic disaster.


It depends on the details. I'll bet that if NASA with SLS revives the
F-1 (F-1B?) the DoD would be *very* interested in using it for their
planned flyback booster core in the 2020s.

This isn't the first time F-1 revival has been proposed. It came up a
lot in ALS/NLS in the '80s/'90s.

Brian
  #7  
Old April 19th 12, 11:56 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jochem Huhmann
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Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

Brian Thorn writes:

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:27:32 +0200, Jochem Huhmann
wrote:

It would still mean that this launcher would use three totally different
engines on the boosters, first and second stage. With one or two
launches a year this is a receipt for economic disaster.


It depends on the details. I'll bet that if NASA with SLS revives the
F-1 (F-1B?) the DoD would be *very* interested in using it for their
planned flyback booster core in the 2020s.

This isn't the first time F-1 revival has been proposed. It came up a
lot in ALS/NLS in the '80s/'90s.


Still, for SLS (which is meant to fly crazily rarely anyway) it would
mean three different engines. Compared to using the SRBs for the
boosters (which at least have the tooling and propellants and everything
ready) I can't see the economic case for them for ten years or so and
even then...

To put it into other words: SLS is a disaster, no matter what engines
you use.

Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #8  
Old April 20th 12, 04:12 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:56:49 +0200, Jochem Huhmann
wrote:

Still, for SLS (which is meant to fly crazily rarely anyway) it would
mean three different engines. Compared to using the SRBs for the
boosters (which at least have the tooling and propellants and everything
ready) I can't see the economic case for them for ten years or so and
even then...


SLS is already three different engines. The SRBs are still complex
machines built on production lines and shipped cross-country. They are
far from cheap, especially the new FSB. SRBs are and always will be
inherantly less safe than liquid engines. And since SLS's SRBs aren't
even recoverable, NASA won't have the advantage of inspecting them
post-flight for problems like they did in the Shuttle program. So an
F-1 based booster, especially if the production costs can be leveraged
with EELV's successor which should be coming along around the same
time, does make some sense. F-1 production costs could well be shared
with J-2X and SSME infrastructure to a degree as well, actually making
this system cheaper than SRB in the long run. (And propellant is ready
for F-1, too... it uses RP-1 just like Atlas 5 and Falcon 9.)

To put it into other words: SLS is a disaster, no matter what engines
you use.


Maybe, but I don't think it is quite as doomed as you suggest.

Brian
  #9  
Old April 20th 12, 04:32 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:27:32 +0200, Jochem Huhmann
wrote:

It would still mean that this launcher would use three totally different
engines on the boosters, first and second stage. With one or two
launches a year this is a receipt for economic disaster.


It depends on the details. I'll bet that if NASA with SLS revives the
F-1 (F-1B?) the DoD would be *very* interested in using it for their
planned flyback booster core in the 2020s.

This isn't the first time F-1 revival has been proposed. It came up a
lot in ALS/NLS in the '80s/'90s.


Also google "Jarvis" Booster.


Brian



--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #10  
Old April 20th 12, 10:12 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Saturn 5 is returning:)

On Apr 19, 11:32*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"Brian Thorn" *wrote in message

...



On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:27:32 +0200, Jochem Huhmann
wrote:


It would still mean that this launcher would use three totally different
engines on the boosters, first and second stage. With one or two
launches a year this is a receipt for economic disaster.


It depends on the details. I'll bet that if NASA with SLS revives the
F-1 (F-1B?) the DoD would be *very* interested in using it for their
planned flyback booster core in the 2020s.


This isn't the first time F-1 revival has been proposed. It came up a
lot in ALS/NLS in the '80s/'90s.


Also google "Jarvis" Booster.

Brian


--
Greg D. Moore * * * * * * * * *http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net


The elephant in the room, after the election ENTITLEMENTS MUST BE CUT,
or our country will go bankrupt....

thats medicare, social security plus everthing else.........

now how much support will the voters have for space spending while
cutting benefits is?????

bet a private industry comany would be happy to build a heavy lifter
if there was money to pay for it??

 




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