Big Bang Busted in Science Classes for High Schools

Hi Nightbat The search for the truth is what science is all about.Best
to leave out words like "facts" Beast to think in every direction,as
long as it makes good science. The BB theory answers more questions than
the steady state theory. Gamow theorized that if there was a BB its
temperature would now be 3K Many years later the universe's temperature
was measured at 2.73K(see what I mean.) Nightbat a better theory would
answer more questions. The BB is the best theory man has come up with.
It has lots of good physics in its favor. It fits with GR,QM,and the
string theory. It fits in with my density of the universe theory.(had
for years) I theorize the smallest gravity can squeeze the mass
of our known universe is the size of a Planck length,and that is in all
of its spatial dimensions. That thinking fits well with the string
theory as to the dimension of a singularity. Bert

Hey Night
Don't write off ol' Dr. Jai just yet. He's drawing from the
ancient Vedic (pre-Hindu) mythologies which had some pretty high level
intuition behind them. The 'eternal return' format is implied in the
'Life and Death of Brahma' (later amended to the 'In-breath and
out-breath of Brahma') which corresponds to the modern Big Bang/ Big
Crunch concept. Each cycle is marked by a period known as a 'Kalpa',
overseen by the gods Brahma (the creator) and Shiva (the destroyer). At
present, we would be somewhere in the expansion phase of our great
'Kalpa'.
Beyond this cyclic level of 'Kalpas' is the overarching
domain of Vishnu (the Sustainer) which would correspond to the CBB
(continuous BB) or the freon cycle in Zinni's fridge.
These two referance frames comprize the Vedic trinity of
Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva.
Also those ancient dudes fully understood the material
universe as a secondary phenomenon, which they called maya or
'illusion', which corresponds to Wolter's tagalong 'dustbunny'. They
would get quite a chuckle out of the modern void-space paradigm(VSP).
oc

From S.S.Shastry:

Most important is to know the existence
of an eternal innermost self around
which everything 'seems' to be cyclic.

As a late great friend and mentor of mine once said, IF there is a such
a central, perpetually running 'Engine' from which Creation proceeds and
is eventually re-ingested, such an 'Engine', if it had voice and could
speak, could rightly proclaim, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning
and the end."

If this astonishing knowledge which is
central to scriptures is not understood
then hardly anything substantial is
served by them.

My friend, being reared as a Mormon, got kicked out of the Mormon church
for the heresy of stating that God can be perceived directly, without
need of an intermediary (meaning the church elders).
Even in physics, singularity is that
eternal innermost self around which
everything 'seems' to be cyclic.

"Singularity" as a noun can refer to that dimensionless point of
infinite density and zero volume at the core of a black hole. There can
also be the _State_ of Singularity. My friend saw this as the natural
extension of quantum nonlocality (already proven in the lab BTW), and
called it 'non-pluralty' or the Law of One. It would correspond to David
Bohm's 'Implicate Order', the Primary Reality underlying the material
universe.

And so, while singularity is the truth the
universe has to be understood as it is,
illusory and not untruth.

Yeah, although the material universe is 'maya' or illusion, it is a very
REAL illusion (the tagalong 'dustbunny' as my friend called it).

OK Zinni, let's hear your retort now. BTW, we're still awaiting your
treatise on why c is constant under the 'no medium' premise.

oc

"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
...

As a late great friend and mentor of mine once said, IF there is a such
a central, perpetually running 'Engine' from which Creation proceeds and
is eventually re-ingested, such an 'Engine', if it had voice and could
speak, could rightly proclaim, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning
and the end."

And IF this perpetually running 'Engine' had big black ears, a round black
nose and four fingers on each hand, it could rightly proclaim, "I am Mickey
Mouse."

From JohnZ:

"...I am Mickey Mouse."

Hey that's a cool mantra. And about your speed too. C'mon, why is the
speed of light fixed if there is 'no medium'? oc

JohnZ I thought cartoon caractors only had 3 fingers. The hand is so
very difficult to draw. I think we could get by with three fingers,but
it does look nicer with four. Bert Michael Anleglo did the hand best.

(Bill Sheppard) wrote in message ...
From S.S.Shastry:

Most important is to know the existence
of an eternal innermost self around
which everything 'seems' to be cyclic.

As a late great friend and mentor of mine once said, IF there is a such
a central, perpetually running 'Engine' from which Creation proceeds and
is eventually re-ingested, such an 'Engine', if it had voice and could
speak, could rightly proclaim, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning
and the end."


That is it. They are the familiar singularities which have been
approximated, avoided or simply ignored depending on the circumstances
under which they occur in physics and maths. However all these
singularities are essential and point to the same singularity which is
the essence of all there is, included as central to the observer.


If this astonishing knowledge which is
central to scriptures is not understood
then hardly anything substantial is
served by them.

My friend, being reared as a Mormon, got kicked out of the Mormon church
for the heresy of stating that God can be perceived directly, without
need of an intermediary (meaning the church elders).
Even in physics, singularity is that
eternal innermost self around which
everything 'seems' to be cyclic.

"Singularity" as a noun can refer to that dimensionless point of
infinite density and zero volume at the core of a black hole. There can
also be the _State_ of Singularity. My friend saw this as the natural
extension of quantum nonlocality (already proven in the lab BTW), and
called it 'non-pluralty' or the Law of One. It would correspond to David
Bohm's 'Implicate Order', the Primary Reality underlying the material
universe.


It may be improper to extrapolate saying that singularity is infinite
density at zero volume, for, no material can be said to be in zero
volume. It has to be nonmaterial like infinite consciousness which is
our innermost self around which everything seems to be cyclic.
Consequently, around this consciousness the whole universe is
nonlocal. However, this nonlocal universe can also be seen as local.


And so, while singularity is the truth the
universe has to be understood as it is,
illusory and not untruth.

Yeah, although the material universe is 'maya' or illusion, it is a very
REAL illusion (the tagalong 'dustbunny' as my friend called it).


When one is unaware of the existence of the this innermost self as the
real self, the body sees the universe as the real. This phenomenon of
illusion appearing as real is 'maya'

S S Shastry

From Nightbat:

...truth is verifiable frame, measurable,
observable, directly or indirectly, and
hasn't been falsified to date. Illusion is
fantasy including sci fi unless someone
manages to make the unreal, real.

Night, as the late great Johnny Cash once asked, "What is Truth?". Take
the analogy (again) of the fish in the deep ocean; he's heard this
recurring theory about something called the "ocean" which supposedly is
all-pervading, life-giving, and has enormous hydrostatic pressure. Yet
he has no sensory perception of it, and therefore concludes the "ocean"
is fantasy, nonsense, and 'nothing'. That is his Truth, his reality.
There is no 'ocean', period.
Similarly, we are sensorially 'blind' to the "ocean" of
the spatial medium, and conclude it is functionally void and 'nothing'.
That is our truth, our reality. There is 'no medium'.

Yet a simple bathroom scale gives a direct analog readout of
*something*. And the 'something', by its observable effects, appears to
be an accelerating _flow_ and the readout matter's *resistance* to this
flow. Thus it fulfills your requirement for "a verifiable frame,
measurable, observable, directly or indirectly, and hasn't been
falsified to date." What's more, this 'something' is substantial enough
to crush massive stars into BHs.

And untruth is no matter how you fudge
the results most other scientist's can see through the BS.

And 'What If', after cutting thru all the BS, gravity IS exactly what it
appears to be and behaves as????? OK Zinni now have at it. oc

"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
...

Yet a simple bathroom scale gives a direct analog readout of
*something*. And the 'something', by its observable effects, appears to
be an accelerating _flow_ and the readout matter's *resistance* to this
flow.

Stand on a bathroom scales & measure your weight.

Stand on same scales in a cave & measure your weight again.

Observe how the infalling space gets captured by the rock above your head
and reduces the weight shown on the scale.

Care to provide calculations for this Bill?

You have 3 days 'coz I'm off on vacation soon.

From OG:

Stand on a bathroom scales & measure
your weight.

Stand on same scales in a cave &
measure your weight again.

Observe how the infalling space gets
captured by the rock above your head
and reduces the weight shown on the
scale.

You're absolutely right OG. Very perceptual of you. The instant the
inflow goes below surface (or datum line), there is now gravitating mass
*behind* (i.e., above) the flow.
Just for purpose of illustration (this was done in
discussions with Painius prior to your and Zinni's appearance on the
NG), take a column of spatial flow 12" in diameter. It's flowing
vertically into the surface, accelerating to 11.2 km/sec, (Earth's
escape velocity) at the instant it hits surface datum. As soon as it
goes below datum, there is gravitating mass behind and _to the sides_ of
the column, causing it to begin decelertaing and to diverge laterally.
And as you correctly observe, your 'weight' is going to be less below
surface than at surface, and for the reason you stated.
As the column descends deeper and deeper, the more mass
lies behind and to the sides, the more the column diverges and
decelerates, showing less and less directional preferance. Finally at
Eartth center, all directional preferance is lost; 'weight' is zero
while hydrostatic pressure is maximum from all the 'weight' pressing in
from above.
The flow itself is into the seat of the strong force in
the nuclei of all the Earth's constituent atoms. Herein lies the
unification of gravity and the strong force in Wolter's 'Unified Field
of Spatial Flows'. oc