Greatest astronomical innovation

By far,the greatest innovation since the telescope is sequential
imaging or time lapse footage which allows genuine astronomers to
condense what are long term observations into easily manageable form.

It allows observers to ascertain two types of retrogrades with two
unique solutions although tied into a moving Earth sandwiched between
the inner and outer planets.

All it needs are people who can put them into the science curriculum
where students will enjoy this type of challenge.

On Monday, June 10, 2013 9:13:57 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:
By far,the greatest innovation since the telescope is sequential

imaging or time lapse footage which allows genuine astronomers to

condense what are long term observations into easily manageable form.



It allows observers to ascertain two types of retrogrades with two

unique solutions although tied into a moving Earth sandwiched between

the inner and outer planets.



All it needs are people who can put them into the science curriculum

where students will enjoy this type of challenge.

By far, the greatest errors ever made in astronomy by a human are yours, where you consistently misinterpret those otherwise perfectly good images and/or graphics into theories that are just not correct. You have already been shown multiple definitions of the word 'retrograde', and NONE of them include the word 'Earth', simply because the Earth is not required for retrograde motion to show up, it can be shown to happen between any planet of your choosing and any other planet in our solar system, but you are just too stubborn to agree with any other person on our planet. You have also been shown graphics that clearly indicate that it makes no difference whether the retrograde observer is on the inferior planet looking outwards or the exterior planet looking inwards, the resulting retrograde imaginary motion looks the same, and the same word 'retrograde' with the exact same definition works just fine. There are NOT 2 types of retrograde, and it matters not whether you agree with this fact. This important to you just why?

Come to your senses, man, it is a very easy concept to learn and understand, and you only look more and more foolish every time you come forward with another lame statement. Their is no shame in coming late to the party, and you don't even need to sneak in the back door.

I spent a very pleasant night in the desert with my 25" telescope, where it was very dark with shirt-sleeve temperatures all night, viewing all kinds of cool and interesting objects, some of them old friends and some of them equally cool and wondrous new friends. Included on the list this month was Saturn... now in retrograde! For someone residing on Saturn, or on one if its moons, they would see Earth in retrograde, too!

I have so many friends in the night sky that I can't keep many their names straight, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy their company just the same. You should try it sometime, for me it is the ultimate attitude-adjuster.

On Jun 10, 9:15*pm, palsing wrote:

There are NOT 2 types of retrograde, and it matters not whether you
agree with this fact. This important to you just why?


There are two types of retrograde motion consistent with the Earth
moving faster than the outer planets and moving slower than the inner
planets along with the other factors such as planetary
phases,luminosity variations and the periodic times argument which is
crucial in identifying the structure of the solar system.

You anti-astronomical folks are not interested in the most familiar
form of retrograde resolution let alone the subtle differences in
retrogrades between the inner and outer planets,you are only
interested in chanting voodoo .You want to draw your grandkids towards
astronomy then act like a person who cares and stop defending a late
17th century runt who was no astronomer -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct,..." Newton

The greatest innovation of sequential imaging makes the discrimination
between inner planetary retrogrades from outer planetary retrogrades
possible and although I have presented it before in this forum,it does
no harm to reproduce this so that it will eventually trickle into the
science curriculum where your grandkids will stand a chance of
escaping your dour fate.

In a few days,Mercury will begin to turn back in towards the Sun just
as Venus is seen to do in these images -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=MdFrE7hWj0A

It means that Mercury has been moving forward in one direction against
the stellar background and is now moving in the opposite direction
hence the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with
retrogrades in this case unlike the retrogrades in the outer planet
where the faster Earth's motion is dominant.

This should be pure joy to any astronomer and its is a particularly
21st century insight made possible by sequential imaging,only sour and
dour folk would dare dispute it.

On Monday, June 10, 2013 1:48:01 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

... It means that Mercury has been moving forward in one direction against

the stellar background and is now moving in the opposite direction

hence the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with

retrogrades in this case unlike the retrogrades in the outer planet

where the faster Earth's motion is dominant.

WHAT!!!! Are you changing horses in mid-stream again? What do you mean, "the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with retrogrades in this case"? Of course it does! Why oh why wouldn't it? Just what does "dominant" have to do with anything? Just because Mercury is moving faster than the Earth does not at all mean the motion of the Earth can be totally discounted. The result, after all, is that for a period of time Mercury moves one way WRT to background stars, then the other way, then the first way again... which is RETROGRADE!

http://tinyurl.com/mzjfvnw

I know, the above comes from an astrology page, but this graphic is accurate in any case... and clearly shows the retrograde loop, cause by the relative motions of both Earth and Mercury. BOTH!

Isn't that what we have been talking about? What are you thinking? Oh wait, you are clearly not thinking at all. Do you come up with these off-the-wall completely whacky statements just to see what reaction you might get? If so, YOU WIN! On the other hand, do you really enjoy appearing to be so completely stoooooped? If so, YOU WIN AGAIN!

This should be pure joy to any astronomer and its is a particularly

21st century insight made possible by sequential imaging,only sour and

dour folk would dare dispute it.

Oh man, it is so clear that you have no insight whatsoever. I'll guess you have a little piece of paper that you refer to often that says "breathe in, breathe out", otherwise you might keel over several times a day... I can't believe you said what you said.

You might want to post this on a lot of different forums here so that a lot more people will get their Big Laugh of the Day... I just can't believe you said that, recorded here in posterity forever...

This is just for you, from one of the highest IQ's in all of history...

"There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity."
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

And this is just for you, too... just because...

"Be pitiful, for every man is fighting a hard battle."
~John Watson, 1897, commonly attributed to Plato as "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

\Paul A

On Jun 10, 11:12*pm, palsing wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2013 1:48:01 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:
... It means that Mercury has been moving forward in one direction against

the stellar background and is now moving in the opposite direction

hence the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with

retrogrades in this case unlike the retrogrades in the outer planet

where the faster Earth's motion is dominant.

WHAT!!!! Are you changing horses in mid-stream again? What do you mean, "the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with
retrogrades in this case"? Of course it does! Why oh why wouldn't it? Just what does "dominant" have to do with anything? Just because Mercury is moving faster than the Earth does not at all mean the motion of the Earth can be totally discounted. The result, after all, is that for a period of time Mercury moves one way WRT to background stars, then the other way, then the first way again... which is RETROGRADE!


Some people are born with an inbred hatred of things and especially
with this new insight which differentiates not only retrogrades
between the inner and outer planets but also all the other factors
which accompany the observations seen from a moving Earth.

The most famous sequence of images has yet to be taken of the Earth
careering from behind the Sun and moving outwards against the stellar
background and then swinging in towards the front of the Sun with all
its phases on display,of course this sequence of images is taken from
the slower moving Mars just as we see Venus -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

Unlike the outer planets when luminosity or magnitude is greatest at
the closest approach of the planets and the middle of
retrograde,Mercury is now at it brightest before it swing into and
before the Sun in the coming weeks and fades so all this wonderful
information is flowing to distinguish how the inner planets appear to
a slower moving Earth from the slower moving outer planets.

I told you before,I will make sure your grandkids will enjoy the new
innovation of sequential imaging which can turn astronomy around from
it present poor state.You are the person who imagines that the change
in orientation of the poles/equatorial rings of Uranus has something
to so with the orbital motion of the Earth when sequential imaging
obliterates that notion as Uranus not only turns roughly 4 degrees to
the central Sun each year but also only covers 4 degrees against the
background stars for the same amount of time the Earth makes an annual
circuit as can be seen in the next set of sequential images -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031216.html

A sour and dour person is hardly a champion of promoting astronomy but
it is the silent contempt that is even worse.They have this rover on
Mars capable of taking those sequence of images of the Earth in
retrograde and its phases but these guys have other things on their
mind.

So,again,there are two types of retrograde motion where we see the
motions of the inner planets swerve out and in towards the Sun in
their annual trek as distinguished from the faster motion of the Earth
accounting for the appearance of the outer planets temporarily falling
behind as we overtake them.

On Jun 10, 11:12*pm, palsing wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2013 1:48:01 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:
... It means that Mercury has been moving forward in one direction against

the stellar background and is now moving in the opposite direction

hence the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with

retrogrades in this case unlike the retrogrades in the outer planet

where the faster Earth's motion is dominant.

WHAT!!!! Are you changing horses in mid-stream again? What do you mean, "the orbital motion of the Earth has little to do with retrogrades in this case"? Of course it does! Why oh why wouldn't it? Just what does "dominant" have to do with anything? Just because Mercury is moving faster than the Earth does not at all mean the motion of the Earth can be totally discounted. The result, after all, is that for a period of time Mercury moves one way WRT to background stars, then the other way, then the first way again... which is RETROGRADE!

http://tinyurl.com/mzjfvnw

I know, the above comes from an astrology page, but this graphic is accurate in any case... and clearly shows the retrograde loop, cause by the relative motions of both Earth and Mercury. BOTH!


Btw,I suggest you set aside the astrology website and track the motion
of Mercury using the Youtube animation covering a sizable proportion
of Mercury's 88 day circuit around the Sun where it travels from
behind the Sun and forward against the background stars and then turns
inwards and in the opposite direction to the stellar background and
this animation should be used in tandem with the images of Venus which
does the exact same thing -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=MdFrE7hWj0A

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

There is not the slightest hint of personal animosity and a great deal
of hope that people will eventually recognize the new innovations that
imaging and the internet brings to astronomy to draw people outside
and look at the planets,not just the magnification exercise but the
higher reasoning involved in 21st century interpretative astronomy.

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:15:00 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

There is not the slightest hint of personal animosity and a great deal

of hope that people will eventually recognize the new innovations that

imaging and the internet brings to astronomy to draw people outside

and look at the planets,not just the magnification exercise but the

higher reasoning involved in 21st century interpretative astronomy.


Gerald, without the slightest hint of personal animosity and a great deal of hope that you will get eventually recognize that is past time to get back on the proper medications, I bid you adieu... although it is a lot of fun trying to get you straightened out, no amount of logic and/or evidence can make the slightest dent in your monsterous bullet-proof Ego and there is nothing that I or anyone can say or do to make you understand how totally and overwhelmingly incorrect you are about just about everything that emerges from your keyboard.

There seems to be no hope whatsoever for you.

I surely pity your children.

Have a nice day,

\Paul A

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:15:00 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

There is not the slightest hint of personal animosity and a great deal

of hope that people will eventually recognize the new innovations that

imaging and the internet brings to astronomy to draw people outside

and look at the planets,not just the magnification exercise but the

higher reasoning involved in 21st century interpretative astronomy.

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:15:00 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

There is not the slightest hint of personal animosity and a great deal

of hope that people will eventually recognize the new innovations that

imaging and the internet brings to astronomy to draw people outside

and look at the planets,not just the magnification exercise but the

higher reasoning involved in 21st century interpretative astronomy.


Gerald, without the slightest hint of personal animosity and a great deal of hope that you will get eventually recognize that is past time to get back on the proper medications, I bid you adieu... although it is a lot of fun trying to get you straightened out, no amount of logic and/or evidence can make the slightest dent in your monsterous bullet-proof Ego and there is nothing that I or anyone can say or do to make you understand how totally and overwhelmingly incorrect you are about just about everything that emerges from your keyboard.

There seems to be no hope whatsoever for you.

I surely pity your children.

Have a nice day.

http://xkcd.com/675/

\Paul A

There are a number of follow-up issues which discriminate the inner
and outer planetary retrogrades and their causes.Even the great
Galileo found it difficult to deal with the inner retrogrades as
different even though nowadays that difficulty is assuaged with
animations and sequential imaging -

"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and
Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent
than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that
the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its
motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends
more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose
circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and
retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that
really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is
acutely demonstrated by Copernicus " Galileo

The inner retrogrades where Venus and Mercury are seen to move in one
direction against the stellar background,stop and move in the other
direction is almost a nightly snapshot of their actual motions around
the Sun as they career out from behind the Sun and swerve back
towards the front of the Sun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=MdFrE7hWj0A

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

Of course the apparent retrograde motions of the inner planets are
best referenced to the central Sun whereas the outer retrogrades
reference the Earth's orbit against the slower motions of
Mars,Jupiter,Saturn ect. in that the Earth overtakes these planets.

In short,it is a fun astronomical thing to work with sequential
imaging, put motions in context and make the clear distinction so
that when they eventually look out at the Earth from Mars,they will
see planetary phases and aside from a small input due to the orbital
motion of Mars,they will see the direct motion of the Earth as it
swings around the Sun in its clearest form just as we see now of
Venus.

oriel36 wrote:
There are a number of follow-up issues which discriminate the inner
and outer planetary retrogrades and their causes.Even the great
Galileo found it difficult to deal with the inner retrogrades as
different

That's because they are not different.
It's just orbital motion. You are stuck to your infantile viewpoint on
Earth.
Copernicus developed the heliocentric theory but your damaged brain is
unable to visualise so you're stuck with the what you can see.
As Newton said there are no retrogrades seen from the sun.
You are unable to distinguish cause from effect.





even though nowadays that difficulty is assuaged with
animations and sequential imaging -


No. The images just demonstrate what we, but not you, know is correct.
"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and
Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent
than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that
the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its
motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends
more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose
circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and
retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that
really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is
acutely demonstrated by Copernicus " Galileo

You treat this as something difficult but once you understand orbital
motion it's easy. But only to those capable of visualisation. That's not
you.

The inner retrogrades where Venus and Mercury are seen to move in one
direction against the stellar background,stop and move in the other
direction is almost a nightly snapshot of their actual motions around
the Sun as they career out from behind the Sun and swerve back
towards the front of the Sun.

They don't career out and veer back to the sun.
They just orbit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=MdFrE7hWj0A

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

Of course the apparent retrograde motions of the inner planets are
best referenced to the central Sun whereas the outer retrogrades
reference the Earth's orbit against the slower motions of
Mars,Jupiter,Saturn ect. in that the Earth overtakes these planets.

No the motion is the same. It just depends from which planet you are
observing it.

In short,it is a fun astronomical thing to work with sequential
imaging, put motions in context and make the clear distinction so
that when they eventually look out at the Earth from Mars,they will
see planetary phases and aside from a small input due to the orbital
motion of Mars,they will see the direct motion of the Earth as it
swings around the Sun in its clearest form just as we see now of
Venus.

You can see what this looks like from almost any planetarium program or
app.