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#1
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been cloud
cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding my way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects. I'm in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a trip to a dark site one of these days!) At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope (the 7x50's are borrowed) I've spent some time reading reviews and forums looking for the best options for a new pair of binoculars - And I can't decide between getting binoculars or a spotting scope. I've narrowed it down to the following; (It's just coincidence that they're all Nikon - honest!) - Nikon 12x50 Se cf binoculars (I assume these are Superior E) 780 euro - Nikon 10x42 Se cf binoculars 720 euro - Nikon spotting scope 80A http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news...ope80_e_00.htm 515 euro (with 20-60 zoom) Binocular advantages: Using 2 eyes, not one - how much difference does this really make? Binocular astronomers love the Nikon Superiors! Robust General purpose use, take them anywhere Easier to hold than a scope (?) Scope advantages: 80mm aperture versus 50mm in the binoculars 20-60 zoom (don't know how useable the 60 zoom would be, wouldn't this give a *very* small exit pupil?) Robust, rubber coated Can take various lenses, and possibly camera adapter (almost a small refractor telescope) Cost less (although not really a prob if the binocs would be a better choice) I haven't read much about scopes in this newsgroup. Do people generally favour binoculars for astronomy? I've looked at Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leica as well. Leica Trinovids are another option, although this would be pushing the price up even more, and I think I'd be happy with the Nikon Superiors. If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you buy? One last question, what is 'eye relief' ? What effect does it have when you're using a scope with poor eye relief? Thanks, John. |
#2
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
If your interest is astronomy then a spotting scope is not the right tool.
You'd be better off with a telescope. You can get a short tube telescope for $199 and get both a 90 degree and 45 degree mirror, which will give you a decent wide angle observing tool. It will also take higher powers than a spotting scope. Of the binoculars you are looking at - I'd say the 12x50SE would be the best for astronomy although the 10x42 might be OK too. However, you'd need to use a tripod with either of them. I prefer 7x50 for astronomy because I can use it handheld. Eye relief matters if you wear glasses. If you don't then it's not an issue. Although sometimes I find long eye relief to be a bit of a pain because I have to hold the glasses further away than I want to. "John Honan" wrote in message ... I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been cloud cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding my way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects. I'm in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a trip to a dark site one of these days!) At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope (the 7x50's are borrowed) I've spent some time reading reviews and forums looking for the best options for a new pair of binoculars - And I can't decide between getting binoculars or a spotting scope. I've narrowed it down to the following; (It's just coincidence that they're all Nikon - honest!) - Nikon 12x50 Se cf binoculars (I assume these are Superior E) 780 euro - Nikon 10x42 Se cf binoculars 720 euro - Nikon spotting scope 80A http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news...ope80_e_00.htm 515 euro (with 20-60 zoom) Binocular advantages: Using 2 eyes, not one - how much difference does this really make? Binocular astronomers love the Nikon Superiors! Robust General purpose use, take them anywhere Easier to hold than a scope (?) Scope advantages: 80mm aperture versus 50mm in the binoculars 20-60 zoom (don't know how useable the 60 zoom would be, wouldn't this give a *very* small exit pupil?) Robust, rubber coated Can take various lenses, and possibly camera adapter (almost a small refractor telescope) Cost less (although not really a prob if the binocs would be a better choice) I haven't read much about scopes in this newsgroup. Do people generally favour binoculars for astronomy? I've looked at Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leica as well. Leica Trinovids are another option, although this would be pushing the price up even more, and I think I'd be happy with the Nikon Superiors. If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you buy? One last question, what is 'eye relief' ? What effect does it have when you're using a scope with poor eye relief? Thanks, John. |
#3
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you buy?
I would buy a decent quality Astroscope, something that is big enough to do some real damage to the Messier list and I also buy an decent pair of binoculars, nothing fancy, probably 100 Euro's or so. When it comes to astronomy, aperture is king. An 8 or 10 inch scope under urban skies will show more detail of most deep sky objects than the best 80mm refractor will in a dark sky spot. Before you make a purchase, try to find a local astronomy club nearby and get a look through some scopes that the night sky. Make a decision based on some first hand experience.. Thats what I'd do. jon |
#4
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
I have a very low opinion of binoculars after owning a pair of very good
ones. They are too heavy to hand-hold steady for any length of time. Your arms will tire more quickly than you can believe. Eventually you will come to the conclusion that you need a tripod. Using tripod mounted binoculars are a pain as well since viewing near the zenith is a contortionist's nightmare. After going through the hassle of mounting my binos, I came to the conclusion that a small grab'n go scope, like my 4" refractor was more desirable by far, since I'm going to mount it anyway. Now I can sweep the star fields at low power or look at mars at 200X. You can't do that with binos! "John Honan" wrote in message ... I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been cloud cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding my way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects. I'm in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a trip to a dark site one of these days!) At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope (the 7x50's are borrowed) I've spent some time reading reviews and forums looking for the best options for a new pair of binoculars - And I can't decide between getting binoculars or a spotting scope. I've narrowed it down to the following; (It's just coincidence that they're all Nikon - honest!) - Nikon 12x50 Se cf binoculars (I assume these are Superior E) 780 euro - Nikon 10x42 Se cf binoculars 720 euro - Nikon spotting scope 80A http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news...ope80_e_00.htm 515 euro (with 20-60 zoom) Binocular advantages: Using 2 eyes, not one - how much difference does this really make? Binocular astronomers love the Nikon Superiors! Robust General purpose use, take them anywhere Easier to hold than a scope (?) Scope advantages: 80mm aperture versus 50mm in the binoculars 20-60 zoom (don't know how useable the 60 zoom would be, wouldn't this give a *very* small exit pupil?) Robust, rubber coated Can take various lenses, and possibly camera adapter (almost a small refractor telescope) Cost less (although not really a prob if the binocs would be a better choice) I haven't read much about scopes in this newsgroup. Do people generally favour binoculars for astronomy? I've looked at Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leica as well. Leica Trinovids are another option, although this would be pushing the price up even more, and I think I'd be happy with the Nikon Superiors. If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you buy? One last question, what is 'eye relief' ? What effect does it have when you're using a scope with poor eye relief? Thanks, John. |
#5
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
Jim wrote:
I have a very low opinion of binoculars after owning a pair of very good ones. They are too heavy to hand-hold steady for any length of time. Your arms will tire more quickly than you can believe. Eventually you will come to the conclusion that you need a tripod. Using tripod mounted binoculars are a pain as well since viewing near the zenith is a contortionist's nightmare. The real answer with binos is a parallelogram mount. My Unimount makes using binos a real joy. And I can mount a spotting scope or camera on it equally well. Phil |
#6
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
Myself I would pick binoculars.
You can use the Binoculars anytime you want. They are hand holdable, if you get something under around 10x. They do not need a tripod. You can use them to scan the heavens, watch whales, birds or to see what your neighbor is up to ;-) You would never be sorry if you got a GOOD pair of binoculars. Kruger |
#7
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
On 2003-09-18 11:28 +0900, Phil Wheeler wrote:
The real answer with binos is a parallelogram mount. My Unimount makes No, the real answer is a Starchair TM 3000! http://www.starchair.com/ ;^) trane -- //------------------------------------------------------------ // Trane Francks Tokyo, Japan // Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. // http://mp3.com/trane_francks/ |
#8
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
You would never be sorry if you got a GOOD pair of binoculars.
Kruger A decent pair of binoculars is a nice thing but anyway you cut the cake, binoculars are limited. A pair of $100 10x50's will provide some nice views and there will be enough left to buy a scope that can dial in the planets and DSO's. jon isaacs |
#9
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
"John Honan" wrote in message ...
I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been cloud cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding my way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects. I'm in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a trip to a dark site one of these days!) At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope As a user of a spotting scope (80 mm, 20-60x) myself, I would say that the spotting scope is at best an awkward compromise for astronomy. As you point out, the larger aperture (relative to binoculars) is more than cancelled by the higher magnification. The spotting scope doesn't really fit well with astronomy: The field of view is too narrow to catch constellations, the aperture isn't large enough to see faint objects like the Messiers, and the magnification isn't large enough to see the planets awfully well. Which leaves the moon as just about the one object one can study in some detail. And since spotting scopes are mounted on regular tripods and not equatorial mounts, you don't get the additional (much needed!) help in navigating the sky. My own experience after having used the spotting scope for a year or so, is that even though I expect only five clear dark nights per year (the low number has to do with the midnight sun and the weather on the coast of the Atlantic), I have started looking around to see if there is a chance of finding enough cash to purchase an astro scope. Yes, I can see the rings of Saturn with my spotting scope. Yes, I can see Jupiter, with its moons and even some hints of cloud belts. I can just barely get a hint of some of the intriguing Messiers, but that's about it. And it's very frustrating. If you live in a place where the climate allows for astronomy on a regular, frequent basis and have astronomy as your main interest, chances are that a telescope built for astronomy would suit your needs significantly better than a spotting scope. If possible, you should test both types first hand. Rune |
#10
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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?
"John Honan" wrote in message ...
At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope First, as other people have already said, it makes no sense to buy a spotting scope if astronomy is your primary purpose. You would end up paying a lot for features that you do need, and some of which are actually counter-productive, notably the erecting prism, which introduces considerable optical aberration. Moreover, the 45-degree viewing angle of many spotting scopes is far inferior to the standard 90-degree viewing angle of astro scopes when viewing subjects well above the horizon. You could get a very nice astro scope for the cost of that 80mm Nikon spotting scope. Second, binoculars and telescopes both have their place in astronomy, and to my mind, their uses barely intersect, although there are some large binocular telescopes and some small wide-field refractors that blur the lines. Binoculars excel at wide-field low-power viewing. Even truly giant binoculars like 40x150 models operate at magnifications that are modest for a cheap department- store telescope, let alone a serious astro scope. At those low powers, the only way to increase the amount of light getting to your eyes is to use both of them. And yes, since you ask, I can see quite a lot more in 15x70 binoculars than in my 70mm astro scope at 15X. On the other hand, with the exception of objects that don't fit in the field, I can almost always see more in my 70mm scope at 50X than I can in 15x70 binoculars, usually much more. Personally, I cannot imagine going through life without at least one pair of binoculars. Their uses are legion, quite ignoring astronomy. Moreover, you can get a perfectly acceptable pair of binoculars in the U.S. for $50, a pretty-darn-good pair for $100, and an excellent pair for $200. You can also spend big bucks if you want, but then you are chasing that notorious last 5% of capability that can eat up 90% of your money. As for what specifications to choose, if you want to use them standing up, I would avoid anything above 7X or 8X. For serious binocular astronomy, a reclining chair is an essential (and very cheap!) accessory, and in a reclining chair 10X is just fine and many people can handle 15X. 7x35, 7x50, 8x40, 10x50, and 15x70 are all popular sizes, each with its advantages and disadvantages. The lower sizes will be more widely useful for terrestrial applications. Or you could get two pairs of binoculars, one for terrestrial and casual astronomy and one for serious astronomy, and still not spend more than $250 U.S. Anyway, if you keep the expense on the binoculars low, then you can start to think seriously about the best astro scope for your budget. And when all is said and done, although almost all serious amateur astronomers own and use binoculars, most of us spend 10 hours at our scopes for every hour that we spend with binoculars. By the way, you suggest that binoculars are "easier to hold" than telescopes. Wrong thinking! You don't hold telescopes, you mount them. Even 7X binoculars show much more when mounted than when hand-held, and mounting is essential above 15X or so. A telescope's mount is every bit as important as the optical tube, and typically roughly equal in cost. Unless you want to do serious astrophotography, in which case the mount is likely to cost much more than the telescope. - Tony Flanders |
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