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#11
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
Frank Glover writes:
Z 1 Y 0 N 3 X wrote: I agree, I think the whole space tourism thing should be flushed, if not, modified. I don't think $20,000,000 is enough for a tourist at this beginning point in time. The Russians provide the service, they're the ones who decide what's an acceptable price. Soyuz doesn't cost as much to lanuch as the shuttle, and; They may not be trying to break-even on it, anyway. Back in the Tito (or Shuttleworth, I don't remember which) days it was said that the 20 millions would pay not only for one, but for two complete launches. So $10,000,000 might be what a Soyuz launch actually costs and the Russians may just turn a fair profit out of every tourist launched. Jochem -- "A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
#12
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
Jochem Huhmann wrote:
Back in the Tito (or Shuttleworth, I don't remember which) days it was said that the 20 millions would pay not only for one, but for two complete launches. So $10,000,000 might be what a Soyuz launch actually costs and the Russians may just turn a fair profit out of every tourist launched. If that figure has any merit at all, I suspect it is a result of someone confusing the cost of a Soyuz launch vehicle with the cost of a complete Soyuz spacecraft mission. |
#13
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
"hop" writes:
Jochem Huhmann wrote: Back in the Tito (or Shuttleworth, I don't remember which) days it was said that the 20 millions would pay not only for one, but for two complete launches. So $10,000,000 might be what a Soyuz launch actually costs and the Russians may just turn a fair profit out of every tourist launched. If that figure has any merit at all, I suspect it is a result of someone confusing the cost of a Soyuz launch vehicle with the cost of a complete Soyuz spacecraft mission. Whatever. Still I think that there is little doubt that the $20m the Russians make from a tourist launch is helping them quite a bit with keeping the show running. Which is good. By the way, Madonna in space would surely make a hell of a PR stunt, for all involved. I like that idea. Jochem -- "A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
#14
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
Danny Dot wrote:
Whatever. Still I think that there is little doubt that the $20m the Russians make from a tourist launch is helping them quite a bit with keeping the show running. Which is good. I think the entire Russian space budget is $400M/year. $20M is a 5% boost. www.mobbinggonemad.org |
#15
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
"Z 1 Y 0 N 3 X" wrote in message oups.com... This is totally absurd. I guess space tourism has to start somewhere... But Madonna?! Jesus christ if she wasn't filthy rich there is no doubt in my mind she wouldn't even think about space flight. At the reported $20 million per flight that the Russians are charging, being "filthy rich" seems to be a prerequisite, unless you're one of the chosen few career astronauts who are lucky enough to actually get a flight assignment. In case you have not noticed, cost is the biggest roadblock to space travel today. Luckily, there are small startup companies who are working to change this. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#16
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
"Traveler" wrote in message ... wrote: Madonna isn't planning to be a government (or even corporate) astronaut, she's paying (if it happens) to likewise sit back and enjoy the ride. Like a spoiled little rich girl. Pathetic. Unfortunately, you've got to be rich to ride a Soyuz, since the fare is reportedly $20 million. The alternative is the socialist US space shuttle, which only allows career astronauts, or other approved passengers, to fly. Specifically, there was at least one shuttle passenger who's flight was very clearly a political payoff. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#17
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
"Z 1 Y 0 N 3 X" wrote in message oups.com... I agree, I think the whole space tourism thing should be flushed, if not, modified. I don't think $20,000,000 is enough for a tourist at this beginning point in time. For tourists to really make a difference in space flight/exploration/colonization, we should either up the price tag or... better yet, the Russians should just stop it in general. From what it seems to me, space tourism is a big play for extra money, and I have a feeling that extra money is going into even better space tourism, which is completely pointless. So damn the free market and set prices much higher? What kind of economic lunacy is this? Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#18
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
"John Doe" wrote in message ... Like a spoiled little rich girl. Pathetic. It isn't just the money and the 10 days in space. If Madonna can go through the training curriculum and pass without any special "we'll overlook that D- mark on that exam", then she deserves to go up just as any other tourist. Considering that the current paying Soyuz passenger is flying because the primary passenger was denied the seat due to a medical condition, I doubt the Russians are going to bend the rules like this. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#19
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
nmp wrote:
5% is not an insignificant contribution, I bet the space tourists *really* help the Russians to keep their program going. Which is good indeed. The Russians sell more than one seat per year. There are 2 flights per year, and up to two paying passengers. NASA are now paying for their seats, and the previous European and other foreign participants have flown commercial contract as well. That means that a typical flight (with on Russian and two foreigners) may be pulling in ~$40 million. OTOH, except for the US contract, the terms aren't public (AFAIK). A number of people have suggested that $20 million is where negotiations start, and may not reflect the final price. The NASA contract works out to a bit over $20 million per flight if I remember correctly, but it includes some payload on progress flights as well. It also includes training for the flight engineer position, which is more involved than the tourist seat. Something that seems to get a bit lost in the objections to "tourists" is that there may not much difference between the "tourists" and other potential visiting crew participants. Russia has been in the business of giving rides to people who don't have a strong technical reason to be on board for a long time (since before Mir). The fact that such rides are now for cash rather than political capital is pretty irrelevant to the practical aspects of the flight. |
#20
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Madonna could be sent into space in 2009 - Russian Space Agency
hop wrote:
nmp wrote: 5% is not an insignificant contribution, I bet the space tourists *really* help the Russians to keep their program going. Which is good indeed. The Russians sell more than one seat per year. There are 2 flights per year, and up to two paying passengers. NASA are now paying for their seats, and the previous European and other foreign participants have flown commercial contract as well. That means that a typical flight (with on Russian and two foreigners) may be pulling in ~$40 million. OTOH, except for the US contract, the terms aren't public (AFAIK). A number of people have suggested that $20 million is where negotiations start, and may not reflect the final price. The NASA contract works out to a bit over $20 million per flight if I remember correctly, but it includes some payload on progress flights as well. It also includes training for the flight engineer position, which is more involved than the tourist seat. Something that seems to get a bit lost in the objections to "tourists" is that there may not much difference between the "tourists" and other potential visiting crew participants. Russia has been in the business of giving rides to people who don't have a strong technical reason to be on board for a long time (since before Mir). The fact that such rides are now for cash rather than political capital is pretty irrelevant to the practical aspects of the flight. And there's this to consider: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/706/1 -- Frank You know what to remove to reply... Check out my web page: http://www.geocities.com/stardolphin1/link2.htm "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." - Stephen Hawking |
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