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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Apr 15, 3:43*pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:20*pm, BURT wrote: How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star? How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets? There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together for the order of the solar system we now see? Nobody can do it. And never will. Mitch Raemsch A solar system disk to start with needs two or more black holes merging and/or combining within a sufficient cosmic cloud of mostly hydrogen and perhaps some helium. Good thing this rotating creation process doesn't happen very often, however the 12+ massive Sirius star/solar system emerged right next door if not essentially right on top of us, and not much further back than 300 million years ago. You can not address the formation of our solar system without also addressing the complex formation of our galaxy and of those nearby other stars that dominate. As of some odd 250~350 million years ago, Eden/Earth and our entire solar system became surrounded and perhaps otherwise cosmic saturated within the exact same molecular cloud that gave birth to the massive and extremely vibrant Sirius star/solar system. Yet for some odd anti- disclosure reason this doesn’t seem to bother anyone of any astrophysics and astronomy observationology expertise, nor the fact that we can’t manage to rediscover any remainder or other portions of this terrific molecular cloud that should still be worth 99.99% of whatever it once had to offer. Is it just silly old me, or do we think there’s something a little more than cosmology fishy or hocus-pocus weird going on? What would happen to our terrestrial environment if our solar system once again became located next to or especially if surrounded by any significant portion of the same 120,000 some odd solar masses worth of such a cosmic molecular cloud, like that which created the 12 solar mass of the original Sirius star/solar system? We’re told by the published experts in cosmology and astrophysics that a 12,000 solar mass cloud would have been the minimum, and that 120,000 solar masses is still a conservative molecular cloud estimate for having given birth to a 12 solar mass star system, such as supposedly having recently created the original Sirius star/solar system, whereas more than likely it could have been a more substantial molecular cloud of 240,000~1,200,000 solar masses unless some kind of black holes or other substantial kind of cosmic merger took place. Lo and behold, it seems the merger of galactic proportions isn’t as uncommon as you might care to think. The Hipparcos Space Astrometry Mission: (mainstream media ignored) http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/are...cfm?fareaid=20 http://www.spacedaily.com/news/milkyway-04m.html Local galactic motion simulation: "The Geneva-Copenhagen survey of the Solar neighbourhood", by B. Nordström et al. http://www.aanda.org/content/view/71/42/lang,en According to several physics and astronomy kinds of science, our Milky Way is made up of at least two galactic units, with more on their blue-shift way towards encountering us. Our Milky Way Galaxy and its Companions (we are not alone) http://www.public.asu.edu/~rjansen/l...ocalgroup.html Don’t forget to appreciate those Hubble, KECK and multiple other archives of colliding galaxies, soon to be ESA enhanced via a trio of impressive orbital observatories, not to mention whatever the renewed and improved Hubble has to offer. ~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet” |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 7, 6:05*pm, BradGuth wrote:
As of some odd 250~350 million years ago, Eden/Earth and our entire solar system became surrounded and perhaps otherwise cosmic saturated within the exact same molecular cloud that gave birth to the massive and extremely vibrant Sirius star/solar system. *Yet for some odd anti- disclosure reason this doesn’t seem to bother anyone of any astrophysics and astronomy observationology expertise... *********** Once again, you sure can go on and on about things you know absolutely nothing about. We already went over all of this back in early April. Sirius and its single companion are approaching earth at about 9 km/ sec, and in 200K years they will be making their closest approach to earth. Doing the simple math, when that system formed it was about 100 light years away from our solar system. It did NOT form anywhere near the earth. Ergo, the cloud it formed from was not anywhere near the earth then, either. You can Google up this same information for yourself, there is no need to take my word for it... \Paul A |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 7, 7:56*pm, wrote:
On Jun 7, 6:05*pm, BradGuth wrote: As of some odd 250~350 million years ago, Eden/Earth and our entire solar system became surrounded and perhaps otherwise cosmic saturated within the exact same molecular cloud that gave birth to the massive and extremely vibrant Sirius star/solar system. *Yet for some odd anti- disclosure reason this doesn’t seem to bother anyone of any astrophysics and astronomy observationology expertise... *********** Once again, you sure can go on and on about things you know absolutely nothing about. We already went over all of this back in early April. Sirius and its single companion are approaching earth at about 9 km/ sec, and in 200K years they will be making their closest approach to earth. Doing the simple math, when that system formed it was about 100 light years away from our solar system. It did NOT form anywhere near the earth. Ergo, the cloud it formed from was not anywhere near the earth then, either. You can Google up this same information for yourself, there is no need to take my word for it... \Paul A So once again, according to your purely subjective mindset is where nothing is in orbit around anything, or much less encounters anything, and all that's Sirius is just a weird kind of rogue cosmic thing that just happened somewhere far, far away, and for no apparent reason came nearly to a stop at its current location as we pass safely in the night (so to speak). That must be why its horrific molecular cloud is also no where in sight. How interesting and how otherwise absolutely pathetic at the same time, that Sirius would migrate in one direction and its molecular cloud of birth took off at a much higher velocity in the opposite direction. Are you for real? Do you per chance have the 500 million year trek of that molecular cloud and the subsequent stellar birth and proper motion of Sirius plotted for us? Does anyone? ~ BG |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 7, 11:31*pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Jun 7, 7:56*pm, wrote: On Jun 7, 6:05*pm, BradGuth wrote: As of some odd 250~350 million years ago, Eden/Earth and our entire solar system became surrounded and perhaps otherwise cosmic saturated within the exact same molecular cloud that gave birth to the massive and extremely vibrant Sirius star/solar system. *Yet for some odd anti- disclosure reason this doesn’t seem to bother anyone of any astrophysics and astronomy observationology expertise... *********** Once again, you sure can go on and on about things you know absolutely nothing about. We already went over all of this back in early April. Sirius and its single companion are approaching earth at about 9 km/ sec, and in 200K years they will be making their closest approach to earth. Doing the simple math, when that system formed it was about 100 light years away from our solar system. It did NOT form anywhere near the earth. Ergo, the cloud it formed from was not anywhere near the earth then, either. You can Google up this same information for yourself, there is no need to take my word for it... \Paul A So once again, according to your purely subjective mindset is where nothing is in orbit around anything, or much less encounters anything, and all that's Sirius is just a weird kind of rogue cosmic thing that just happened somewhere far, far away, and for no apparent reason came nearly to a stop at its current location as we pass safely in the night (so to speak). That must be why its horrific molecular cloud is also no where in sight. *How interesting and how otherwise absolutely pathetic at the same time, that Sirius would migrate in one direction and its molecular cloud of birth took off at a much higher velocity in the opposite direction. Are you for real? Do you per chance have the 500 million year trek of that molecular cloud and the subsequent stellar birth and proper motion of Sirius plotted for us? *Does anyone? *~ BG You can sure jump to conclusions in a hurry, can't you? I don't remember stating that nothing was in orbit around anything, and I'm not resorting to speculation, I believe you have the corner on that market. There is nothing rogue about the Sirius system, it is a usual and customary star system, just like billions of others. The Sirius system has NOT come to nearly a stop in its current location, it is still approaching us at about 9km/sec and will not be at its closest approach for another 200K years, and then it will be moving away from us. What is so hard to understand about this? Virtually everything out there is moving either towards us or away from us at some speed. I know nothing of the specific cloud from which Sirius formed, but I do know that most stars form in clusters, having condensed from a dust cloud, and that when the young stars first start their nuclear fusion, their radiation pressure fairly quickly dissipates the reminder of the cloud. Every time you view an older open cluster you can be pretty sure that at some time in the past it had a nebula around it which has now been pushed out into interstellar space. Of course, you can also find open clusters that are still surrounded by most of the cloud from which they formed, M-42 in Orion is a perfect example, as is M-8 in Sagittarius, and many, many others. In these you can clearly see stars at all levels of formation, from proplyds to full-blown giants. Do some reading here; http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap961017.html Understand that at some time way in the future there will be no Orion Nebula, M-42 will only refer to a star cluster, and that at another time way, way in the future that cluster will have evaporated, its stars having wandered away from each other, leaving no trace of its existence. \Paul A |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 8, 10:07*am, wrote:
On Jun 7, 11:31*pm, BradGuth wrote: On Jun 7, 7:56*pm, wrote: On Jun 7, 6:05*pm, BradGuth wrote: As of some odd 250~350 million years ago, Eden/Earth and our entire solar system became surrounded and perhaps otherwise cosmic saturated within the exact same molecular cloud that gave birth to the massive and extremely vibrant Sirius star/solar system. *Yet for some odd anti- disclosure reason this doesn’t seem to bother anyone of any astrophysics and astronomy observationology expertise... *********** Once again, you sure can go on and on about things you know absolutely nothing about. We already went over all of this back in early April. Sirius and its single companion are approaching earth at about 9 km/ sec, and in 200K years they will be making their closest approach to earth. Doing the simple math, when that system formed it was about 100 light years away from our solar system. It did NOT form anywhere near the earth. Ergo, the cloud it formed from was not anywhere near the earth then, either. You can Google up this same information for yourself, there is no need to take my word for it... \Paul A So once again, according to your purely subjective mindset is where nothing is in orbit around anything, or much less encounters anything, and all that's Sirius is just a weird kind of rogue cosmic thing that just happened somewhere far, far away, and for no apparent reason came nearly to a stop at its current location as we pass safely in the night (so to speak). That must be why its horrific molecular cloud is also no where in sight. *How interesting and how otherwise absolutely pathetic at the same time, that Sirius would migrate in one direction and its molecular cloud of birth took off at a much higher velocity in the opposite direction. Are you for real? Do you per chance have the 500 million year trek of that molecular cloud and the subsequent stellar birth and proper motion of Sirius plotted for us? *Does anyone? *~ BG You can sure jump to conclusions in a hurry, can't you? Conclusion Guth is always ready with a loose cannon or two. I don't remember stating that nothing was in orbit around anything, and I'm not resorting to speculation, I believe you have the corner on that market. My speculation as to the whereabouts of the original Sirius star/solar system, and of its impressive molecular cloud of charged hydrogen, helium and a variety of other elements is at least honestly suggesting that folks claiming to know so much as a matter of fact, really do not. There is nothing rogue about the Sirius system, it is a usual and customary star system, just like billions of others. The Sirius system has NOT come to nearly a stop in its current location, it is still approaching us at about 9km/sec and will not be at its closest approach for another 200K years, and then it will be moving away from us. What is so hard to understand about this? Virtually everything out there is moving either towards us or away from us at some speed. How close did we get the previous time, and of each one before that? I know nothing of the specific cloud from which Sirius formed, but I do know that most stars form in clusters, having condensed from a dust cloud, and that when the young stars first start their nuclear fusion, their radiation pressure fairly quickly dissipates the reminder of the cloud. Every time you view an older open cluster you can be pretty sure that at some time in the past it had a nebula around it which has now been pushed out into interstellar space. I agree that the birth of a 12+ solar mass star/solar system pushed the vast bulk of its dust/molecular cloud away, and that unavoidably we were caught within that process because of being so nearby. Even within 100 light years is nearby for such a cloud with perhaps 500 light year radius to start with. 99.99% of the Sirius molecular mass is still out there, and most likely we've only recently (as of 250~350 million years) passed through it, and/or it's still surrounding us and Sirius. Of course, you can also find open clusters that are still surrounded by most of the cloud from which they formed, M-42 in Orion is a perfect example, as is M-8 in Sagittarius, and many, many others. In these you can clearly see stars at all levels of formation, from proplyds to full-blown giants. Do some reading here; http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap961017.html Thanks, I'll do just that. btw, it looks like there's one black hole emerging in that image "ap961017.html" Understand that at some time way in the future there will be no Orion Nebula, M-42 will only refer to a star cluster, and that at another time way, way in the future that cluster will have evaporated, its stars having wandered away from each other, leaving no trace of its existence. \Paul A So, you're saying that gravity is what primarily creates stars and gravity is also what keeps stars (regardless of however near one another) apart? Somewhat related: Dark Matter Halo Simulation (looks damn big) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter_halo What was the initial Sirius ABC combined solar wind maximum density and velocity (say for the first thousand or million years when it was new and really going to town, so to speak)? How soon after the fairly recent stellar birth of Sirius B do whatever planets and moons form? Whatever happened to those Sirius planets and their moons? (only Sirius C seems to be sticking around, and it's somewhat stealth/ invisible) ~ BG |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 8, 11:33*am, BradGuth wrote:
So, you're saying that gravity is what primarily creates stars and gravity is also what keeps stars (regardless of however near one another) apart? I didn't say that at all. True, gravity is responsible for star formation. It is actually the lack of gravity that accounts for the evaporation of a cluster. From Wiki; "All stars form in clusters, but most clusters break up less than 50 million years after star formation concludes. The astronomical term for this process is "evaporation." Only extremely massive clusters, orbiting far from the Galactic center, can avoid evaporation over extended timescales Somewhat related: *Dark Matter Halo Simulation (looks damn big) *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter_halo What does the theory of Dark Matter have to do with star clusters in general and Sirius in particular? What was the initial Sirius ABC combined solar wind maximum density and velocity (say for the first thousand or million years when it was new and really going to town, so to speak)? There is no Sirius C and there never has been. See the bottom of this page; http://www.solstation.com/stars/sirius2.htm How soon after the fairly recent stellar birth of Sirius B do whatever planets and moons form? What do you mean by the 'fairly recent birth of Sirius B'? You need to perform due diligence before saying things like this. Sirius A and B were most assuredly born at the same time from the same cloud. Read the previous link from the top. Sirius A is a 2-3 solar mass star, and Sirius B WAS a 5 solar-mass star, before evolving to its present white dwarf stage. I have no idea about any planet formation around either one of these guys. If you do, I would like to see the reference. \Paul A |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 8, 2:52*pm, wrote:
On Jun 8, 11:33*am, BradGuth wrote: So, you're saying that gravity is what primarily creates stars and gravity is also what keeps stars (regardless of however near one another) apart? I didn't say that at all. True, gravity is responsible for star formation. It is actually the lack of gravity that accounts for the evaporation of a cluster. From Wiki; "All stars form in clusters, but most clusters break up less than 50 million years after star formation concludes. The astronomical term for this process is "evaporation." Only extremely massive clusters, orbiting far from the Galactic center, can avoid evaporation over extended timescales Somewhat related: *Dark Matter Halo Simulation (looks damn big) *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter_halo What does the theory of Dark Matter have to do with star clusters in general and Sirius in particular? What was the initial Sirius ABC combined solar wind maximum density and velocity (say for the first thousand or million years when it was new and really going to town, so to speak)? There is no Sirius C and there never has been. See the bottom of this page; http://www.solstation.com/stars/sirius2.htm How soon after the fairly recent stellar birth of Sirius B do whatever planets and moons form? What do you mean by the 'fairly recent birth of Sirius B'? You need to perform due diligence before saying things like this. Sirius A and B were most assuredly born at the same time from the same cloud. Read the previous link from the top. Sirius A is a 2-3 solar mass star, and Sirius B WAS a 5 solar-mass star, before evolving to its present white dwarf stage. I have no idea about any planet formation around either one of these guys. If you do, I would like to see the reference. \Paul A The wobble of a .05.06 solar mass of something is there to behold, but you certainly don't have to look if you don't want to. Your selective obfuscation and word game is otherwise noted, and fully expected, as is your cling to the subjective science that suits your closed mindset. Too bad your parrot knowledge is as good as it's ever going to get. ~ BG |
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Addressing the formation of the solar system
On Jun 8, 4:00*pm, BradGuth wrote:
The wobble of a .05.06 solar mass of something is there to behold, but you certainly don't have to look if you don't want to. .... and your source for this is what? I've already given you one source, there are many more. And, there are many really wacky sights out there, all related to the Dogon tribe. None of them are particularly scientific. But what if there was a tiny brown dwarf in this system. What would it matter? Your selective obfuscation and word game is otherwise noted, and fully expected, as is your cling to the subjective science that suits your closed mindset. Word game? I believe you have the corner on the word game market. Subjective science? I've forgotten more astronomy than you will ever know. Closed mindset? I believe in an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out... Too bad your parrot knowledge is as good as it's ever going to get. You clearly have no idea about even the simplest workings of the universe, do you... if you are not here to learn, then why are you here at all? From where I am sitting you are only a breather, just using up oxygen... \PA |
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