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Permanently Berthing MPLM
I read on this newsgroup many moons ago that permanently berthing an MPLM to
the ISS was not an option due to the fact that it didn't have the necessary avionics, plumbing, data, etc. What has changed? http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/...ement-sts-134/ |
#2
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
Time and experience I'd imagine, but I'd be rather worried about mmod damage
myself. Brian -- Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email. graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them Email: __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________ "Space Balls" wrote in message ... I read on this newsgroup many moons ago that permanently berthing an MPLM to the ISS was not an option due to the fact that it didn't have the necessary avionics, plumbing, data, etc. What has changed? http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/...ement-sts-134/ |
#3
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
"Space Balls" wrote in message ... I read on this newsgroup many moons ago that permanently berthing an MPLM to the ISS was not an option due to the fact that it didn't have the necessary avionics, plumbing, data, etc. What has changed? http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/...ement-sts-134/ They're studying the possibility; it's not a done deal. My guess is they'll look at how much it would cost to fix the deficiencies in the MPLM (MMOD shielding, add redundant systems, and etc.) versus taking the risk of leaving the MPLM "as-is". If it were me, I'd look at how much risk is added by keeping the MPLM attached, but the hatch closed "most of the time". In other words, use it only for storage. Jeff -- "Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National Lampoon |
#4
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
Space Balls wrote:
I read on this newsgroup many moons ago that permanently berthing an MPLM to the ISS was not an option due to the fact that it didn't have the necessary avionics, plumbing, data, etc. What has changed? Where there is a will there is a way. After Columbia, the so called experts said that it was absolutely impossible to survey the suttle in space, that it was absolutely impossible for the arm to reach under the shuttle etc etc. MD Robotics came up with the boom for the canadarm equipped with all the sensors~cameras needed to do the job, as well as ability to bring an EVA crewmember to just about any tile location on the shuttle to effect repairs. I am sure that if they decide on a "can do" attitude, they will find a way to get the MPLM to stay in space. The MPLM does not need to be "living quarters", it can be limited to storage, just like ATV or one of the PMAs which I believe is used for storage. As such, it may not require all of the redundancies and systems of a full fledged living quarter. It may require that the hatch be kept closed except when you need to go fetch or deposit something there. Yes, they will need to add shielding to the MPLM. But They did that to Node2 and Columbus which are made from the same core tin can. So they should be able to do that to the MPLM. |
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
John Doe wrote:
Space Balls wrote: I read on this newsgroup many moons ago that permanently berthing an MPLM to the ISS was not an option due to the fact that it didn't have the necessary avionics, plumbing, data, etc. What has changed? Where there is a will there is a way. After Columbia, the so called experts said that it was absolutely impossible to survey the suttle in space, that it was absolutely impossible for the arm to reach under the shuttle etc etc. And the experts were and are right. MD Robotics came up with the boom for the canadarm equipped with all the sensors~cameras needed to do the job, as well as ability to bring an EVA crewmember to just about any tile location on the shuttle to effect repairs. Here's a free clue for you - they had to develop the boom because the arm couldn't and can't do the job. I am sure that if they decide on a "can do" attitude, they will find a way to get the MPLM to stay in space. Oh, it's trivial to get the MPLM to stay in space, just don't unberth it. The *hard* part is having stay part of the ISS and meet the appropriate safety requirements. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
Derek Lyons wrote:
And the experts were and are right. No. The experts said it was impossible to lenghten the arm, too may oscillations etc etc (all the possible excuses soem expert who doesn't want to do something would come up with). Nevertheless, it was done, and shuttles flying today have capabilities that the so called exprts said could never be done. (same with fixing tiles in space). Oh, it's trivial to get the MPLM to stay in space, just don't unberth it. The *hard* part is having stay part of the ISS and meet the appropriate safety requirements. Does PMA3 meet the same safety requirements as Destiny ? It isn't very difficult to design safety requirements for a storage module with appropriate operational constraints to ensure that module isn't used as permanent living quarters. aka: just develop a new storage class standard for storage modules. Used only for storage. |
#7
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
John Doe wrote:
Derek Lyons wrote: And the experts were and are right. No. The experts said it was impossible to lenghten the arm, And the experts were and are right - because, they didn't lengthen the arm did they? Oh, it's trivial to get the MPLM to stay in space, just don't unberth it. The *hard* part is having stay part of the ISS and meet the appropriate safety requirements. Does PMA3 meet the same safety requirements as Destiny ? Who cares? PMA3 isn't a full module. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
#8
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
"John Doe" wrote in message ... Derek Lyons wrote: And the experts were and are right. No. The experts said it was impossible to lenghten the arm, too may oscillations etc etc (all the possible excuses soem expert who doesn't want to do something would come up with). Nevertheless, it was done, and shuttles flying today have capabilities that the so called exprts said could never be done. (same with fixing tiles in space). I'm unaware of anyone saying it would be "impossible", but yes, the flexibility and potential vibrations of the arm/boom combination absolutely were a risk. That risk was mitigated. Oh, it's trivial to get the MPLM to stay in space, just don't unberth it. The *hard* part is having stay part of the ISS and meet the appropriate safety requirements. Does PMA3 meet the same safety requirements as Destiny ? It isn't very difficult to design safety requirements for a storage module with appropriate operational constraints to ensure that module isn't used as permanent living quarters. aka: just develop a new storage class standard for storage modules. Used only for storage. Possibly. NASA has a long history of writing waivers for their own rules. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a waver is written for keeping an MPLM permanently attached to ISS. But I also wouldn't be surprised if such a waiver includes new rules like keeping the MPLM hatch sealed 99% of the time. Jeff -- "Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National Lampoon |
#9
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
aka: just develop a new storage class standard for storage modules. Used
only for storage. Possibly. NASA has a long history of writing waivers for their own rules. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a waver is written for keeping an MPLM permanently attached to ISS. But I also wouldn't be surprised if such a waiver includes new rules like keeping the MPLM hatch sealed 99% of the time. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if NASA designs aome add-on protective outer blankets for the MPLM just like they have added to Zvezda over the past couple of years. Those could eventually be brought up on one of the extended shuttle missions, or a COTS mission. Maybe even on the flight when the MPLM is brought up. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would help mitigate some of the risk. |
#10
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Permanently Berthing MPLM
Vincent D. DeSimone wrote:
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if NASA designs aome add-on protective outer blankets for the MPLM just like they have added to Zvezda over the past couple of years. Considering that MPLMs are of the same tin can design as Node2 and Columbus, I would expect them to just remove the outer panels and add the same type of insulation that they put in node2 and Columbus and then add bad the outer panels. |
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