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Why we need a fast courier rocket service



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 15th 03, 06:00 AM
Henry Spencer
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Default Why we need a fast courier rocket service

In article ,
Mary Shafer wrote:
The problem is considerably reduced for rockets because of their very
short transit time. In particular, that makes it feasible to have a small
vehicle that makes ten trips a day, rather than a big one which can only
make one trip a day...


What about the airspace? I assume that the rockets will launch and
land near large cities, but large cities have multiple airports and
restricted airspace and air traffic. If the rocket is flying city
pairs, not hub and spoke, there's going to be a lot of rocket launches
and landings at ten trips a day between city pairs.


It's going to mean real changes to airspace allocation and traffic control.
Even less-frequent rocket traffic is going to require changes to the
latter, because (like really-high-performance aircraft) rockets can't just
wait around for a few minutes while ATC sorts out some snafu -- if they
are coming in for a 3:47 landing, they're going to land *at 3:47* and ATC
will have to be organized to accommodate that.

If you adopt my favorite approach -- VTVL -- then one obvious option is to
have vertical columns of reserved airspace, off limits to winged traffic,
extending from ground level up to the top of winged-vehicle airspace.
(The columns don't need to be all that wide: a rocket can't dawdle around
in mid-air for a few minutes to shuffle sideways, so it's going to have to
be capable of aiming pretty precisely at its landing point quite early in
descent, and it can aim at the top of the column instead. Similarly,
traffic control within a column will not be a big deal, because whether
going up or down, a rocket traverses the full height of the column pretty
quickly.) This completely separates rocket traffic from airplane traffic,
except in emergencies.
--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |
  #12  
Old July 15th 03, 03:11 PM
Alan Erskine
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Default Is there a market for fast legal documents?

No. Lawyers get paid by the hour.
--
Alan Erskine
alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au
Did John Howard lie to the Australian people?

"Earl Colby Pottinger" wrote in message
...


  #13  
Old July 15th 03, 05:36 PM
Dave
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Default Why we need a fast courier rocket service


"Bruce Hoult" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dave O'Neill" dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:

There's also a huge logistics problem associated with next day air

freight
which I don't think rockets will help.

My brother used to be a logistics manager for the air freight business

of a
large courier and they had real problems making money with it. The

issue
being if you have next day contracts signed and your aircraft is at its
capacity, you have to take a choice whether or not you miss the delivery

or
you fly a nearly empty jet.


I don't understand.

Surely if the plane is full and you have next-day stuff on hand then you
bump off some of the stuff that *isn't* next day?


My brother worked for the next day business, so the jet fleet only handled
next day packages. They had hubs all over Europe and low noise jets so they
could fly and ship at night.

And if everything on the plane is next-day, and you have more next-day
stuff on hand ... well, you *do* charge twice as much for next-day as
for lower priority, right? So, either you're not making any money when
you fill a plane with low priority stuff, or else you're making so much
off an entire plane filled with next-day that you don't *care* if you
have to put on another plane. And don't you have lower priority stuff
you can put in there too?


Not in most business models.

If you have a contract to deliver next day, that's what you have to do. If
you miss, and, for example, it was a document that had to be at a location
by a certain day, you can find you've not just lost a customer but also
taken a huge insurance hit.

Often, you'd have jets with 20,000kg loads flying with a few kg's in the
them, which is why these services are marginal at best.

As my brother said, if we could figure out how to make even a 1% margin we'd
all be happy. Bear in mind this was a $3bn turnover business.


  #14  
Old July 15th 03, 05:37 PM
Dave
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Default Why we need a fast courier rocket service


"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
I can see the same problems with rockets, either you fly it nearly empty

a
lot or spend time waiting to make it viable.


The problem is considerably reduced for rockets because of their very
short transit time. In particular, that makes it feasible to have a small
vehicle that makes ten trips a day, rather than a big one which can only
make one trip a day. Having to add an eleventh trip is much less costly
than having to add a second one.


If the rocket can work to those performance issues it could work. But given
the charges you need to charge, I'm not sure how the logisitics can be made
to work.

I'm sure its not impossible, just far from trivial.




  #15  
Old July 16th 03, 10:49 AM
Paul Blay
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Default Why we need a fast courier rocket service

"Christopher M. Jones" wrote ...
"John Ordover" wrote:
Which explains why we use racing cars to carry packages rather than
trucks. Sorry, shooting small things a lot of times is a whole lot
more expensive and inefficient then sending one large thing. Can you
imagine the fuel cost in the scenario you suggest? The wear-and-tear
costs? The costs of having refueling avaiible all over the place?
Won't work.


Here's a big clue for you John, there ain't no speed limits
above the atmosphere.


Tell that to the Time-Space Police. I've never yet been able to clock 1.1c
without being pulled over.
  #16  
Old July 16th 03, 12:08 PM
John Ordover
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Default Is there a market for fast legal documents?

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote in message ...
Hello,
One thing I know occurs in cities is the fast shipment of legal
documents by bike couriers. For reasons I am not clear on there is a market
for moving papers back and forth by bike couriers as they are faster than
cars in the downtown area.


It's not just legal papers - it's a lot of things that are
time-sensitive or that people would like to rush. But To answer your
question below, it comes down to the price of a same-day service
(which is -already- availible from fedex to most metropolitan areas)
by rocket plane vs. regular plane.
  #17  
Old July 16th 03, 12:09 PM
John Ordover
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Default Is there a market for fast legal documents?

"Christopher M. Jones" wrote in message ...
"Earl Colby Pottinger" wrote:
Hello,
One thing I know occurs in cities is the fast shipment of legal
documents by bike couriers. For reasons I am not clear on there is a market
for moving papers back and forth by bike couriers as they are faster than
cars in the downtown area.

Is this only in the city core or could this be extented to other cities if
there was a fast transfer service (ie rockets).?


You have to consider not just legal documents that the parties
involved in are agreeing to, but also legal documents for which
the parties are not the primary parties (if that makes sense,
gee, any more of this and I could be a lawyer myself). For
example, if I wanted to sign a contract with someone else on
the other side of the world, I'd have the option (depending on
the legalities in both locations) of doing it by fax or
electronically in some fashion, so if I needed speed I'd just
do that. But, if I and another person have important business
involving a preexisting legal document (such as a contract, a
check, an affidavit, etc.) then it might be necessary to move
the physical object, especially if it is needed as evidence.
Personally, I don't see that as much of a business because the
options needed for speed (photocopying, faxing, etc.) have
already been developed and become, mostly, accepted as usable
standins for the originals.



Exactly.
  #18  
Old July 16th 03, 10:23 PM
John Ordover
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Default Why we need a fast courier rocket service

"Christopher M. Jones" wrote in message ...
"John Ordover" wrote:
Which explains why we use racing cars to carry packages rather than
trucks. Sorry, shooting small things a lot of times is a whole lot
more expensive and inefficient then sending one large thing. Can you
imagine the fuel cost in the scenario you suggest? The wear-and-tear
costs? The costs of having refueling avaiible all over the place?
Won't work.


Here's a big clue for you John, there ain't no speed limits
above the atmosphere.


Sure there are. Come back in at the wrong speed and you'll burn up.
So unless you want to burn fuel to kill your velocity, which would
increase your weight, lower your range and profits, etc., you have to
stay below the burn-up speed. Remember, there's also no -friction-
above the atmosphere to slow you down.
  #19  
Old July 18th 03, 07:57 AM
Dave O'Neill
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Default Why we need a fast courier rocket service


"Alan Anderson" wrote in message
...
"Paul Blay" wrote:

Here's a big clue for you John, there ain't no speed limits
above the atmosphere.


Tell that to the Time-Space Police. I've never yet been able to clock

1.1c
without being pulled over.


Alcubierre's warp drive could do it.


But the Causality Police won't let me have the negative mass I need to fill
mine up!

 




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