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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:52:44 -0600, Pat Flannery
wrote: She's an historic aircraft, and should be preserved in the form she made history in- rather than say making her into a ice-cream stand in Gorky Park. ....Yeah, but if it were up to me, she'd fly again. OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr |
#22
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Mike DiCenso wrote: Actually, the markings that Enterprise has on her now are NOT the ones she had during the ALT test flights. In the early 80's, OV-101 was altered to more closely resemble the "production" OVs in TPS pattern, and markings (Columbia's markings being excepted, of course). Now that that has been mentioned, I remember when that was done... at the time I didn't think much about it, but in retrospect it should have been a warning. Columbia was basically being treated as a tourist attraction and propaganda tool rather than a historic item. Which reflected the way the whole Shuttle program was treated by NASA...not as a operational "pick-up-truck-to-orbit", but rather as the "NEW! EXCITING! EXOTIC! SPLENDIFEROUS! SUPER SPACE SHUTTLE! EVERYMAN'S...EXCUSE US...EVERYPERSON'S SPACESHIP!!! AND NOW, MEMBERS OF THE SPACE SHUTTLE SECRET SOCIETY, SET YOUR RINGS TO 'F-4'- REPEAT- 'F-4'- AND GET READY TO DECODE JOHN YOUNG'S SECRET SPACE SHUTTLE MESSAGE TO YOU!!!" Which was one of the big problems with the program. It was the perceived snickering by the news media and embarrassment to NASA of Challenger's multiple scrubbed launch attempts that led to the decision to launch on that cold morning. Pat |
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"Pat Flannery" wrote in message ... Which was one of the big problems with the program. It was the perceived snickering by the news media and embarrassment to NASA of Challenger's multiple scrubbed launch attempts that led to the decision to launch on that cold morning. It's b.s. like this that makes me seriously want to killfile you Pat. You're dangerously close to joining Bob Haller in killfile hell. You might want to do some reading on the decisions that lead up to the launch of Challenger as it's nowhere near as simple as you say. There are many, many reports and articles available. Some are even online: http://www.chron.com/content/interac...cs/report.html http://www.me.utexas.edu/~uer/challenger/challtoc.html http://www.open2.net/forensic_engine...dvances_12.htm http://onlineethics.org/edu/ncases/EE18.html http://www.library.ubc.ca/scieng/eng...ngFailures.htm http://www.fas.org/spp/51L.html http://slp.icheme.org/incidents.html Read a few of these, you might learn something. Jeff -- Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. |
#24
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"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:52:44 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote: She's an historic aircraft, and should be preserved in the form she made history in- rather than say making her into a ice-cream stand in Gorky Park. ...Yeah, but if it were up to me, she'd fly again. That would be an incredible waste of money. Even NASA is finally accepting that there will be an end to the shuttle program, very likely within the next decade. Restarting the Russian copy of this program would be folly. The design of these systems is about 30 years old. We can do better today with new designs. By better, I mean cheaper cost per pound to LEO. Jeff -- Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. |
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"Jeff Findley" ) writes: "OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:52:44 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote: She's an historic aircraft, and should be preserved in the form she made history in- rather than say making her into a ice-cream stand in Gorky Park. ...Yeah, but if it were up to me, she'd fly again. That would be an incredible waste of money. Even NASA is finally accepting that there will be an end to the shuttle program, very likely within the next decade. Restarting the Russian copy of this program would be folly. The design of these systems is about 30 years old. We can do better today with new designs. By better, I mean cheaper cost per pound to LEO. Um... I think that OM was referring to flying White Knight again... Andre -- " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. " The Man Prayer, Red Green. |
#26
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Jeff Findley wrote: Which was one of the big problems with the program. It was the perceived snickering by the news media and embarrassment to NASA of Challenger's multiple scrubbed launch attempts that led to the decision to launch on that cold morning. It's b.s. like this that makes me seriously want to killfile you Pat. You're dangerously close to joining Bob Haller in killfile hell. Jeeze, that would break my heart. "Mini-P, get the spare Chrono-Inverter Grenade ready; after we use the first one to convert Kid Rock into a fertilized egg cell, we use the spare one to get this Findley guy...no...he's not blocking our path to Pamela Anderson like Mr. Rock is...this is different. No, we have his postings...we don't need his Mojo in this case..." You might want to do some reading on the decisions that lead up to the launch of Challenger as it's nowhere near as simple as you say. Well, I don't now where you were but I lived through those days, and after all the hype about the President's "teacher-in-space" mission, the news media was noting the continued launch scrubs with some bemusement. Remember a certain pair of comments related to the loss? "My God, Thiokol, when do you want me to launch, next April?" "It's time to take off your engineering hat and put on your management hat." Challenger was supposed to get airborne before the President's State Of The Union Address on the the evening of the 28th (which NASA wrote a paragraph of, by the way), so that the Old Coot would have something to talk about in the best Soviet propaganda-space-launch-on-historic-date tradition. Of course, when the actual launch occurred, the O.C. was too busy to be watching it, and his remark "That's tragic...was that the one with the teacher on board?" rings down through the ages in regards to his insight and interest into the outcome of things that he initiated (remember when he was helping to strengthen the Islamic fundamentalist rebels in Afghanistan? That also worked out well in the long run, didn't it?). He ended up having to talk about that nice teacher he had sacrificed on the Moloch's altar of political gain with a few well-stolen words from the prayer "High Flight" (which used to run on a lot of TV at sign-off around here....just before the static engulfed everything, rather like the O.C.'s addled brainwaves)...proving a master politician- like a corrupt TV evangelist- can turn most anything to their advantage with a disarming look and a well-placed mention of the Almighty. There are many, many reports and articles available. Some are even online: http://www.chron.com/content/interac...cs/report.html http://www.me.utexas.edu/~uer/challenger/challtoc.html http://www.open2.net/forensic_engine...dvances_12.htm http://onlineethics.org/edu/ncases/EE18.html http://www.library.ubc.ca/scieng/eng...ngFailures.htm http://www.fas.org/spp/51L.html http://slp.icheme.org/incidents.html Read a few of these, you might learn something. I've read most of that stuff years ago; I'm just saying that media and political pressure regarding the launch played a part in the decision to launch on that morning despite the cold weather. Why don't you read this article: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/shuttle-04zl.html We did it once; we did it twice; and now we're getting ready to do it a third time. The Shuttle is our very own little Voskhod program. Pat |
#27
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We did it once; we did it twice; and now we're getting ready to do it a third time. The Shuttle is our very own little Voskhod program. Pat Sadly RTF means more will die Meanwhile most poster here care more about jobs than science .. .. End the dangerous wasteful shuttle now before it kills any more astronauts.... |
#28
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"Pat Flannery" wrote in message ... Jeff Findley wrote: Which was one of the big problems with the program. It was the perceived snickering by the news media and embarrassment to NASA of Challenger's multiple scrubbed launch attempts that led to the decision to launch on that cold morning. It's b.s. like this that makes me seriously want to killfile you Pat. You're dangerously close to joining Bob Haller in killfile hell. snip I've read most of that stuff years ago; I'm just saying that media and political pressure regarding the launch played a part in the decision to launch on that morning despite the cold weather. That's not what you said. Why don't you read this article: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/shuttle-04zl.html We did it once; we did it twice; and now we're getting ready to do it a third time. The Shuttle is our very own little Voskhod program. I read the article. It's clear that the shuttle will never be 100% safe. However, NASA is doing many reasonable things to reduce and mitigate the risk. The foam risk dates back to the very beginnings of the program with foam consistently shedding from the ET during flight. Jeff -- Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. |
#29
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#30
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On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:17:30 -0600, Pat Flannery
wrote: It's b.s. like this that makes me seriously want to killfile you Pat. You're dangerously close to joining Bob Haller in killfile hell. Jeeze, that would break my heart. ....Methinks Jeff needs to take a chill pill, Pat. Either that, or at least 1600mg of Midol and a Vodka chaser. thinks Hey, wasn't he one of those who got sent samples of Vegemite? OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr |
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