...'08 Beijing Olympics/Spielberg vs. '36 Hitler Olympics/Leni Riefenstahl

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:48:02 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On Jan 7, 5:48*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 22:05:14 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On Jan 6, 4:37*pm, "Scott Hedrick" wrote:
wrote in message
When the Chinese people can actively denounce its government in China
without reprisals, then you can talk about freedom. Until then, there's
always Tiananmen Square.

Do you think you can go to Washington DC and denounce the U.S.
government without reprisal? *Go ahead. *Give it a try and see what
would happen to you.

It happens every day, you ignorant loon. *Right in front of the White
House.

And many are taken away, you ignorant loon yourself.

Not for denouncing the US government.

Why don't you go
there and do it and see for yourself.

I've been there many times.

rest of stupidity and ignorance snipped

On Jan 7, 8:02*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:48:02 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:





On Jan 7, 5:48*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 22:05:14 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On Jan 6, 4:37*pm, "Scott Hedrick" wrote:
wrote in message
When the Chinese people can actively denounce its government in China
without reprisals, then you can talk about freedom. Until then, there's
always Tiananmen Square.

Do you think you can go to Washington DC and denounce the U.S.
government without reprisal? *Go ahead. *Give it a try and see what
would happen to you.

It happens every day, you ignorant loon. *Right in front of the White
House.

And many are taken away, you ignorant loon yourself.

Not for denouncing the US government. *

Many have been taking away for denouncing the U.S. government, yes.


Why don't you go
there and do it and see for yourself.

I've been there many times.

Yes, as a tourist/sightseer.

You are just too brainwashed to see beyond the government version of
the world.


rest of stupidity and ignorance snipped- Hide quoted text -

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On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:24:42 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On Jan 7, 8:02*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:48:02 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

Do you think you can go to Washington DC and denounce the U.S.
government without reprisal? *Go ahead. *Give it a try and see what
would happen to you.

It happens every day, you ignorant loon. *Right in front of the White
House.

And many are taken away, you ignorant loon yourself.

Not for denouncing the US government. *

Many have been taking away for denouncing the U.S. government, yes.

No, none. Never happened. Provide a single citation in which it did.

Why don't you go
there and do it and see for yourself.

I've been there many times.

Yes, as a tourist/sightseer.

No.

wrote in message
...
"...but in the main the populace did
not, assuring its failure,"

Literally letting the PLA in. I think you understand what I mean.

Yes- you mean you do not understand what the article said. You have provided
*no evidence* that the general populace wanted the Chinese invasion. At
best, what you provided shows that the population was too afraid of the
Chinese to resist. With good reason- just ask a Tiananmen Square survivor
what China does to resisters.

On Jan 7, 8:46*am, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:24:42 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
rst0wxyz made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:
No, none. *Never happened. *Provide a single citation in which it did.

Don't you know? In orer to keep our American image up high, we gotta
keep it quiet, just like in China, Russia,...

Have you read about Dr. Frank Olson?
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/olson2.htm

How about the U.S. Public Health Service experiment on Southern Blacks
on siphilis?
http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/

How about a warfare experiment in San Francisco that killed a citizen?
http://www.rense.com/general15/ofmicrobesandmock.htm

And many many more. They kept it quiet for many many years...



Why don't you go
there and do it and see for yourself.

I've been there many times.

Yes, as a tourist/sightseer.

No.

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On Jan 6, 10:17*pm, wrote:
On Jan 6, 10:53 am, wrote:

On Jan 5, 7:37 pm, wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:43 pm, wrote:
The reason the Tibetan seperatist forces lost was that they did not
have the support of the slaves. These slaves or serfs literally let in
the PLA.

Got any evidence for that?

This is a long article. I hope you read it.

Thanks for the link, but the article doesn't say anything about "These
slaves or serfs literally let in the PLA."

Quote from the Article:-
Many Tibetan commandos and agents whom the CIA dropped into the
country were chiefs of aristocratic clans or the sons of chiefs.
Ninety percent of them were never heard from again, according to a
report from the CIA itself, meaning they were most likely captured and
killed.29 "Many lamas and lay members of the elite and much of the
Tibetan army joined the uprising, but in the main the populace did
not, assuring its failure," writes Hugh Deane.30 In their book on
Tibet, Ginsburg and Mathos reach a similar conclusion: "As far as can
be ascertained, the great bulk of the common people of Lhasa and of
the adjoining countryside failed to join in the fighting against the
Chinese both when it first began and as it progressed."31 Eventually
the resistance crumbled.

Literally letting the PLA in. I think you understand what I mean.

Well, actually, what the article describes is not "literally letting
the PLA" in.

If
not, refer to this short message from a former rebel himself. take
note of the tone of the message.
Quote:
Almost 3 years before Kham and Amdo were invaded and those people
fought the real uprsing, china was almost welcomed in open arms in to
lhasa.
Who brought his holiness to india? my grandfather and the brave
khampas that fought 2years before march 10,yet these videos leave out
the real probel with Tibetans. Which is amongst each other. Learn the
probems within tibetans before you speak about china.

Well, that's what one person said.

I am familiar with the issues of old Tibet and know it was not an
Edenic Shangri-la. I am also familiar with Parenti's work. He's
something of a DL hater and while he makes some points he is also
quite biased at times.

If you read the article, Parenti also did have some very nasty things
to say about the CPC. Was that bias too ??

Whatever. It doesn't necessarily mean he is unbiased with regard to
Tibet and the DL.

*How about the 2 to 3 pages
of references at the end of the article. Were all these aurthurs and
traveller all bias too ?

I guess we'd have to examine them closely to make a better decision
about that, eh?

Parenti is a DL hater ? * Does that make you a DL lover ?

That's very silly and illogical.

I think you need to come to term with the facts.

The historical relationship of Tibet and China

* *Unintelligent nonsence "Snipped"

It's not very cool to assert something is nonsense and then just snip
it. Just as many Westerners do not really understand Tibet and its
history with China, many mainland Chinese stubbornly assert things
about Tibet and do not respond well to reasonable discussion about it.
That is why I generally refrain from discussing Tibet on this NG.
There is very little effort by anyone to reach any kind of middle
ground.

You sound ****ed off so I will leave this alone. I do not mean to
offend you.


vis a vis India.
I do not agree with
everything the CPC do.Time and time again China has always been acused
of thing they never did. Eg it was always believe China encourage N
Korea to attack S Korea. But when USSR declassified information came
out it was Russia that supported N Korea to invade. Mao was against it
as he wanted to concentrate on nation building after wining the civil
war. Again China is acused of providing N Korea with Nuclear devices.
But it was Russia that help N Korea build the experimental Nuclear
power station. Again China is acused of helping Pakistan to build
nuclear bomb but it was Khan that stole centrifuge design from Europe.
he then help N Korea. More truth about TAM if you really want to know
the truth.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html-Hidequoted text -

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If not, refer to this short message from a former rebel himself. take
note of the tone of the message.
Quote:
Almost 3 years before Kham and Amdo were invaded and those people
fought the real uprsing, china was almost welcomed in open arms in to
lhasa.
Who brought his holiness to india? my grandfather and the brave
khampas that fought 2years before march 10,yet these videos leave out
the real probel with Tibetans. Which is amongst each other. Learn the
probems within tibetans before you speak about china.

Well, that's what one person said.

But this is not just "any" person. He is directly related to a former
Tibetan rebel. So do not just ignore it. The post above was a very
recent posting 1 or 2 months ago. The message is this. Old Tibet is
still very much alive.

I think you need to come to term with the facts.
The historical relationship of Tibet and China

Unintelligent nonsence "Snipped"

It's not very cool to assert something is nonsense and then just snip
it. Just as many Westerners do not really understand Tibet and its
history with China, many mainland Chinese stubbornly assert things
about Tibet and do not respond well to reasonable discussion about it.
That is why I generally refrain from discussing Tibet on this NG.
There is very little effort by anyone to reach any kind of middle
ground.

Look, I am not trying to start any flame war. I just want people to
understand the facts. Again, I am sometime not happy with what the CPC
does but if you look at many of these "Unlimited Freedom" Free Tibet
sites, they criticized the CPC to the extreme. They do not even TRY to
be balance. They refuse to openly admit their own atrocities and blame
the CPC for everything and I mean everything. This does not help their
cause but can cause bitterness between the Tibetans and the Han ren.
And they are being cheer on and supported by many Anglo Saxons NGOs
who themselves only read brief Headline news and themselves do not
understand History and what real Humans Rights is all about.
I am also against any chauvinistic Han posters too.

The bottom line to all this discussing is still this.

Tibet independence is a LOST CAUSE. Once people come to terms with
this, then we can reach the middle ground.

You sound ****ed off so I will leave this alone. I do not mean to
offend you.


If no offend intended, then no offend taken.