newbie question - bins and andromeda

Howdy folks


Just (20:30) been outside (Colchester) and it's nice and clear.
Visibility wise I can, for example, with my new (to me) 10x40s make
out all seven stars in Pleiades quite easily.

According to my Starry Night Enthusiast software, Andromeda is 'one of
the most magnificent objects in the night sky and ... easily visible
as a hazy patch to the naked eye.. covering as much of the sky as five
moons put together.. binoculars will show Andromeda in its entirety
.... and also show two of Andromeda's companion galaxies .."

So my question is, just how close to reality is the above quote?
Because I'm guessing

- easily visible as a hazy patch to the naked eye = maybe in the
darkest of dark skies

- covering as much of the sky as five moons put together = really?????

- binocluars will show Andromeda in its entirely = what kind of
bins?????

= and also two of Andromeda's companion galaxies = reallly?


Mark

Mark Watson wrote:

According to my Starry Night Enthusiast software, Andromeda is 'one of
the most magnificent objects in the night sky and ... easily visible
as a hazy patch to the naked eye.. covering as much of the sky as five
moons put together.. binoculars will show Andromeda in its entirety
... and also show two of Andromeda's companion galaxies .."



Hi Mark,

I'm not far from you. I live in a small village in the Chelmsford area
with fairly dark skies (but by no means the darkest possible) and
through my 10x50 binos I can easily find Andromeda and its quite a
large hazy patch but 5 times the moon? Nah.. not for me. Others may
have different results.

Through my telescope (8" LX90) I can sometimes see the central bulge of
the galaxy if conditions are good but I haven't seen any detail other
than that so far.

Cheers,

Andy.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:31:01 +0000, in uk.sci.astronomy , Mark Watson
wrote:

So my question is, just how close to reality is the above quote?

about right.

- easily visible as a hazy patch to the naked eye = maybe in the
darkest of dark skies

In the dark skies round where I used to live in Bucks, I've seen
andromeda with the naked eye.

- covering as much of the sky as five moons put together = really?????

yup, its huge but dim.

- binocluars will show Andromeda in its entirely = what kind of
bins?????

looks quite good in my 10x50s. But not tonight - too much moonlight.
I've just taken a look and its detectable but quite washed out.

= and also two of Andromeda's companion galaxies = reallly?

harder to spot, you need to know where

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Mark Watson wrote:
[...]
- easily visible as a hazy patch to the naked eye = maybe in the
darkest of dark skies

Not really -- I have seen it many times from suburbia on transparent
Moonless nights.


- covering as much of the sky as five moons put together = really?????

Well, a bit more, actually, from a *really* dark site.


- binocluars will show Andromeda in its entirely = what kind of
bins?????

10x50, or even 10x42


= and also two of Andromeda's companion galaxies = reallly?

Yes, really. Dark transparent skies help, as does averted vision.


Best,
Stephen

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Hi Mark,

You don't say whether you managed to glimpse Andromeda or not.
Assuming you did, or that you know where to look, here are a few things
that may have adversely affected your "Andromeda experience".

The moon - about half-moon on Friday wasn't it? That's
significant light pollution which will almost certainly mask the
fainter, outer reaches of Andromeda.

Cold and clear but with air coming from the south - as it moves north
and cools it can't hold as much moisture which condenses as fog. This
reduced general clarity and scattered moonlight made it worse.
Peculiarity of the UK weather; air from north often gives better
clarity for faint fuzzies (because it starts out colder and dryer
before it gets here).

Time taken to dark adapt - did you spend at least 15 minutes adapting
to the darkness of the view through your binoculars? You have to avoid
looking at the moon or any other bright light sources while doing this.
Given the conditions, this was likely a very minor factor; but once the
moon is out of the way, and you have a really clear, dark sky, it will
become one of the main factors in reliably teasing out faint dust lanes
and details.

Time taken to look - how long did you spend looking for detail in
Andromeda? You'll be surprised how much more can be seen simply by
spending longer studying the field.

Stability of binoculars - were you just hand-holding or did you have
something to keep the binoculars really steady? I think this is
critical in trying to tease out the companion galaxies at that
magnification. Andromeda's current position (mid-evening) lends
itself quite well to laying on the ground supporting the binos on your
eye-sockets :-)

What are you expecting to see? This more than anything affects what you
are able to see! The central bulge is easy under most conditions -
even full moon! But brightness VERY quickly drops off as you get away
from the centre. That can cause you to misjudge where dust lanes
"should" be compared to where they really are. M31 is probably over
6 moon diameters across its longest axis - but you need long exposure
photography (or a 40 inch scope :-) to reveal any details out there...

But to get you on your way I found this to be useful. There's a
thumbnail of Andromeda at
http://limbo.tzo.net/astronomy/deepspace.html. Don't follow the link
to the image at first, just look at the thumbnail. I reckon it's a
pretty good example of the best binocular view of Andromeda you are
likely to get (if you have the darkest, clearest skies possible). Take
note of the brightest stars and their relationship to features in the
galaxy (dust lanes, companions, the edge etc.) then see if you can spot
them through your binoculars. Once you can do that - you'll have a
better idea of WHERE to look for the subtle details and will have a
much better chance of detecting them as a result.

Hope this is helpful

Cheers
Beats