Kinetic to heat (building a spaceship)

Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.

What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
friction.

Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
colliding with one another and they build heat.

This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
and is a master of cruel friction.

How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
such a spaceship?

On 6/10/10 2:46 PM, gb wrote:
Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.

What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
friction.

Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
colliding with one another and they build heat.

This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
and is a master of cruel friction.

How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
such a spaceship?


A spaceship can be thought of as a closed system with constant
momentum. Unless acted upon be an external force or unless the
spaceship sheds matter or radiation, nothing much happens.
dp/dt = 0

"gb" wrote in message
...
| Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.
|
| The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
| weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
| then the spaceship moves.
|
| But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
| stops in space.
|
| Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
| which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
| the spaceship and arriving to the end.
|
| What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
| from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
| friction.
|
| Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
| colliding with one another and they build heat.
|
| This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
| internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
| and is a master of cruel friction.
|
| How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
| energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
| such a spaceship?
|
Heat has to radiate or temperature doesn't stop rising until it does.
By conservation of momentum if you can give the heat-radiation
a direction you'll have a rocket as the heat is lost in space.
Mv - mV = 0, where Mv is the enormous mass of the spaceship
multiplied by its puny velocity and m is mass equivalence of the
puny radiation and V is its enormous velocity, c. Any radiation
internal to the craft does nothing except warm it up, you need
only consider the energy of radiation lost to space = 1/2mc^2.
So yes, if you let off an atomic bomb in the arse end, converting
a very small amount of mass to radiation with a high velocity,
the mass of the forward end will move. It will also melt.

gb wrote:

Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

One line and already hopeless.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.
[snip rest of crap]

Hey stooopid - the center of mass is stationary.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm

On Jun 10, 12:55*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 6/10/10 2:46 PM, gb wrote:





Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.

What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
friction.

Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
colliding with one another and they build heat.

This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
and is a master of cruel friction.

How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
such a spaceship?

* *A spaceship can be thought of as a closed system with constant
* *momentum. Unless acted upon be an external force or unless the
* *spaceship sheds matter or radiation, nothing much happens.
* *dp/dt = 0

But what happens to kinetic energy when friction transfers energy
of motion to heat? Heat is not the same energy as kinetic energy.

It starts out as motion which dp/dt=0 refers to, but transfers into
heat. The heat is something that can be lost.

If the spaceship starts out with moving something under it,
then transfers that something from weight to heat, the kinetic
momentum is gone.

The spaceship pushes itself against something which turns into
heat a moment later.

But thanks for the info.

On Jun 10, 1:16*pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"gb" wrote in message

...
| Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.
|
| The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
| weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
| then the spaceship moves.
|
| But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
| stops in space.
|
| Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
| which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
| the spaceship and arriving to the end.
|
| What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
| from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
| friction.
|
| Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
| colliding with one another and they build heat.
|
| This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
| internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
| and is a master of cruel friction.
|
| How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
| energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
| such a spaceship?
|
Heat has to radiate or temperature doesn't stop rising until it does.
By conservation of momentum if you can give the heat-radiation
a direction you'll have a rocket as the heat is lost in space.
Mv - mV = 0, where Mv is the enormous mass of the spaceship
multiplied by its puny velocity and m is mass equivalence of the
puny radiation and V is its enormous velocity, c. Any radiation
internal to the craft does nothing except warm it up, you need
only consider the energy of radiation lost to space = 1/2mc^2.
So yes, if you let off an atomic bomb in the arse end, converting
a very small amount of mass to radiation with a high velocity,
the mass of the forward end will move. It will also melt.

That's cool that you understood my idea.

Hey stooopid - the center of mass is stationary.

Evil only sees himself in a small mirror when he talks, Tony.

On 6/10/10 5:27 PM, gb wrote:
On Jun 10, 12:55 pm, Sam wrote:
On 6/10/10 2:46 PM, gb wrote:





Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.

What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
friction.

Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
colliding with one another and they build heat.

This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
and is a master of cruel friction.

How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
such a spaceship?

A spaceship can be thought of as a closed system with constant
momentum. Unless acted upon be an external force or unless the
spaceship sheds matter or radiation, nothing much happens.
dp/dt = 0

But what happens to kinetic energy when friction transfers energy
of motion to heat? Heat is not the same energy as kinetic energy.

It starts out as motion which dp/dt=0 refers to, but transfers into
heat. The heat is something that can be lost.

If heat (electromagnetic radiation) is radiated in one principle
direction, then each photon had momentum, p = hν/c = h/λ and one
could propel (slightly) a spacecraft, as conservation of momentum
applies. If the radiation is equal in all directions, then the
dp/dt for the spacecraft as a whole, remains zero.

On Jun 10, 6:27*pm, gb wrote:
On Jun 10, 12:55*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:





On 6/10/10 2:46 PM, gb wrote:

Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.

What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
friction.

Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
colliding with one another and they build heat.

This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
and is a master of cruel friction.

How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
such a spaceship?

* *A spaceship can be thought of as a closed system with constant
* *momentum. Unless acted upon be an external force or unless the
* *spaceship sheds matter or radiation, nothing much happens.
* *dp/dt = 0

But what happens to kinetic energy when friction transfers energy
of motion to heat? Heat is not the same energy as kinetic energy.

It starts out as motion which dp/dt=0 refers to, but transfers into
heat. The heat is something that can be lost.

If the spaceship starts out with moving something under it,
then transfers that something from weight to heat, the kinetic
momentum is gone.

The spaceship pushes itself against something which turns into
heat a moment later.

But thanks for the info.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The root problem with this scheme is that ignoring momentum
does not make it go away.

Say you're up at the front of the space craft and you launch
a bowling ball backwards. The space craft goes forward as
the bowling ball toes backward. So far, so good.

Now suppose that you catch this bowling ball in some kind
of tube lined with sandpaper so that you can turn its
kinetic energy [relative to the ship] into heat.

That's fine. You can do that. You can reduce its kinetic
energy to zero. The principle of conservation of energy
assures you that this energy is not lost. It will appear
as heat in the bowling ball and the sandpaper.

While the bowling ball is slowing and and while you are
carefully considering the virtues of the principle of conservation
of energy, the principle of conservation of momentum still
applies. As the bowling ball loses backward momentum
in its interaction with the sandpaper, the ship is guaranteed
to lose equal and opposite forwad momentum. This is
Newton's third law in action -- when the sandpaper acts
on the bowling ball, the bowling ball also acts on the
sandpaper.


By contrast, propulsion by radiation of heat energy works.

A problem with propulsion by radiation of heat energy is
that the ratio of energy used to propulsion produced is
very low. There can be a lot of energy in the exhaust
stream but very little momentum.

We all know this intuitively. Nobody braces themselves
against the recoil of a shining flashlight. The efficiency
of a floodlight as a propulsion device is vanishingly
low.

The ratio of energy used to momentum harvested is given by:

1/2 mv^2 / mv = 1/2 v.

The higher the exhaust velocity, the lower the efficiency.

As relativity kicks in at higher speeds, this ends up being
off by a factor of two.

pc / p = c = v


The ideal case (in terms of energy budget) for a rocket design
is when you're throwing as much mass out the back as
you possibly can at as high a velocity as you can muster
without exceeding your energy supply.

That means that should throw out all the burned fuel at
least.

That means that the optimal exhaust velocity is bounded
above based on the energy/mass ratio of the fuel supply.

If you are using a matter-antimatter drive, _then_ using
a light-speed exhaust stream is appropriate. With chemical
energy you're talking about something that's many orders
of magnitude slower (in the very rough neighborhood of
Mach 10).

On Jun 10, 4:17Â*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 6/10/10 5:27 PM, gb wrote:





On Jun 10, 12:55 pm, Sam Â*wrote:
On 6/10/10 2:46 PM, gb wrote:

Usually people want to avoid friction, I want to create one.

The idea is that there is a spaceship in space. You throw something, a
weight from the front of the spaceship to the back of the spaceship,
then the spaceship moves.

But when the weight reaches the end of the spaceship, the spaceship
stops in space.

Now what if we convert kinetic energy into heat? Heat is this thing
which can be lost as friction between the weight leaving the top of
the spaceship and arriving to the end.

What is launched at the top can be some chemical, which transforms
from kinetic motion to where the energy of motion is lost as heat and
friction.

Heat can absorb energy of motion where particles lose energy by
colliding with one another and they build heat.

This spaceship, or flying saucer would pulse energy this way
internally without letting matter escape, would use a nuclear reactor,
and is a master of cruel friction.

How could such a spaceship be built technologically where kinetic
energy is transferred into heat, producing valid motion in physics by
such a spaceship?

Â* Â* A spaceship can be thought of as a closed system with constant
Â* Â* momentum. Unless acted upon be an external force or unless the
Â* Â* spaceship sheds matter or radiation, nothing much happens.
Â* Â* dp/dt = 0

But what happens to kinetic energy when friction transfers energy
of motion to heat? Heat is not the same energy as kinetic energy.

It starts out as motion which dp/dt=0 refers to, but transfers into
heat. The heat is something that can be lost.

Â* Â*If heat (electromagnetic radiation) is radiated in one principle
Â* Â*direction, then each photon had momentum, p = hν/c = h/λ and one
Â* Â*could propel (slightly) a spacecraft, as conservation of momentum
Â* Â*applies. If the radiation is equal in all directions, then the
Â* Â*dp/dt for the spacecraft as a whole, remains zero.

I know that it is unclear if this concept works, but it is based on
the opposite concept of perpetual motion machines, bad friction, so it
is called stubborn machines.

Radiation loss (internally lost energy of momentum) may be interesting
research,
but may turn out as illegal as perpetual motion machines. Kinetic
energy may
be impossible to lose away in any form.