Other than terrestrial water and tidal flex heating

In article ,
Alain Fournier wrote:

Landy wrote:
"Hagar" wrote in message
...

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass.


Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

It does happen on the moon also. It isn't exactly the same side of the
moon which is facing Earth because of lunar libration. Of course if you
don't have full rotation but only small librations your tides will be small.
Also the radius of the moon is about 3.7 times smaller than Earths radius
and this leads to yet smaller tides. But Earth's mass being about 81 times
the mass of the moon, this increases the tidal effect on the moon. When
you take all this into account what you get is very small tides on the
moon, but they do exist.

They're "very" small. How do they compare to the rock tides on Earth?
Are they "a lot smaller than that"?

Can the heating of the moon as a result of these teeny tiny tides be
measured?

--
Timberwoof me at timberwoof dot com http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

In article
,
Timberwoof wrote:

snip

Once you've done that calculation, you can try it with just the Earth's
oceans as the repository of "all that" energy. That should be pretty
easy too. 3/4 of the Earth's surface is water, the water is a depth, on
average of a few kilometers, and the specific heat of water is 1.

The specific heat of seawater, although varying with salinity,
temperature, and pressure, is somewhat lower than that of pure H2O, more
like 0.95 cal/gC° (3.9 J/gK).

--
Odysseus

On Jul 18, 3:10 pm, "Landy" wrote:
"Hagar" wrote in message

...





"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres ("green glass spherules") that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...w-the-moon-rev...

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

Thanks for that perfectly constructive feedback. Unfortunately, our
Hagar isn't willing to accept the regular laws of physics or peer
replicated science that rocks his boat.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

On Jul 18, 3:36 pm, oldcoot wrote:
On Jul 18, 3:10 pm, "Landy" wrote:

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists.

There are also atmospheric tides that are analogous to ocean tides,
and run on the lunar cycle. But these are swamped out by larger-
amplitude atmosphereic tides that are on the 24 hour heating/cooling
cycle.

Our wet atmosphere of roughly 100 teratonnes worth of h2o is in fact
getting tidal forced along by the gravity influence of our Selene/
moon.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

On Jul 18, 4:31 pm, Alain Fournier wrote:
Landy wrote:
"Hagar" wrote in message
m...
The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

It does happen on the moon also. It isn't exactly the same side of the
moon which is facing Earth because of lunar libration. Of course if you
don't have full rotation but only small librations your tides will be small.
Also the radius of the moon is about 3.7 times smaller than Earths radius
and this leads to yet smaller tides. But Earth's mass being about 81 times
the mass of the moon, this increases the tidal effect on the moon. When
you take all this into account what you get is very small tides on the
moon, but they do exist.

Alain Fournier

If the interior of our Selene/moon is of low density and perhaps even
partly that of a mineral brine or mud, as such it should be getting a
little tidal flex heated by way of the gravity interactions with our
Sun and the elliptical orbit of Earth.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

On Jul 18, 10:48 am, eyeball wrote:
On Jul 18, 1:52 am, BradGuth wrote lots of dense
things:
I'm just curious. When the tide goes out, do you get a headache?

No headache, but I do always include the "k12.ed.science" as one of
the intended Usenet/newsgroups for this topic. Is there some good or
weird reason why you intentionally excluded that k12.ed.science
newsgroup?

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

"Timberwoof" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Landy" wrote:

"Hagar" wrote in message
...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres ("green glass spherules") that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...oon-reveals-it
s-water.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news3_head_mg19926644.200

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It
is
far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists.

"It exists" is merely an inconsequential little truth. Perhaps you could
calculate just how much heating it causes. You gave us a figure a while
back about the rate at which the Earth-moon dynamic system loses energy
to heat. It should be pretty straightforward to apply that to a ballpark
estimate of the Earth's specific heat (I'll even grant you the leeway to
apply the heat to the rocky parts of the Earth rather than the oceans)
and derive a rate of heating. How many K per million years does this
work out to?

Once you've done that calculation, you can try it with just the Earth's
oceans as the repository of "all that" energy. That should be pretty
easy too. 3/4 of the Earth's surface is water, the water is a depth, on
average of a few kilometers, and the specific heat of water is 1.


I wasn't making any claims about the effects of earth tides, I was merely
pointing out that they exist, after "Hagar" implied they did not.
I think you're confusing me with the Guthball - who I also disagree with.




How many K per million years does this work out to?

You'll see why it's important to apply numbers to the claims you make.
just adjectives aren't enough.

This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

On Jul 18, 7:50 pm, "Landy" wrote:
"Timberwoof" wrote in message

...



In article ,
"Landy" wrote:

"Hagar" wrote in message
om...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres ("green glass spherules") that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...w-the-moon-rev...
s-water.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news3_head_mg19926644.200

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It
is
far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists.

"It exists" is merely an inconsequential little truth. Perhaps you could
calculate just how much heating it causes. You gave us a figure a while
back about the rate at which the Earth-moon dynamic system loses energy
to heat. It should be pretty straightforward to apply that to a ballpark
estimate of the Earth's specific heat (I'll even grant you the leeway to
apply the heat to the rocky parts of the Earth rather than the oceans)
and derive a rate of heating. How many K per million years does this
work out to?

Once you've done that calculation, you can try it with just the Earth's
oceans as the repository of "all that" energy. That should be pretty
easy too. 3/4 of the Earth's surface is water, the water is a depth, on
average of a few kilometers, and the specific heat of water is 1.

I wasn't making any claims about the effects of earth tides, I was merely
pointing out that they exist, after "Hagar" implied they did not.
I think you're confusing me with the Guthball - who I also disagree with.



How many K per million years does this work out to?

You'll see why it's important to apply numbers to the claims you make.
just adjectives aren't enough.

This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

Gotcha in yet another lie. You believe in anything that's mainstream
status quo, that is unless it's what I happen to agree with or utilize
on behalf of my argument, in which case you suddenly claim that I'm
dead wrong on each and every count.

"I think you're confusing me with the Guthball - who I also disagree
with"
Isn't that kinda DARPA bipolar or Zionist/Nazi of yourself.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

Landy wrote:
"Alain Fournier" wrote in message
...

Landy wrote:

"Hagar" wrote in message
news:PvmdnY4fe52nSB3VnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews. com...

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It
is far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

It does happen on the moon also. It isn't exactly the same side of the
moon which is facing Earth because of lunar libration. Of course if you
don't have full rotation but only small librations your tides will be
small.
Also the radius of the moon is about 3.7 times smaller than Earths radius
and this leads to yet smaller tides. But Earth's mass being about 81 times
the mass of the moon, this increases the tidal effect on the moon. When
you take all this into account what you get is very small tides on the
moon, but they do exist.

Good point. Is there a perigee/apogee effect as well I wonder? (similar to
the effect on the Jovian moons)

Yes there is a perigee/apogee effect but that is one of the components of
libration, so it isn't "as well". The moon is a little egg shaped because
of the tidal effect. When it gets closer to Earth it gets more egg shaped
and when it goes further from Earth it gets more spherical.


Alain Fournier

On Jul 18, 8:17 pm, Alain Fournier wrote:
Landy wrote:
"Alain Fournier" wrote in message
.. .

Landy wrote:

"Hagar" wrote in message
news:PvmdnY4fe52nSB3VnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews. com...

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It
is far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

It does happen on the moon also. It isn't exactly the same side of the
moon which is facing Earth because of lunar libration. Of course if you
don't have full rotation but only small librations your tides will be
small.
Also the radius of the moon is about 3.7 times smaller than Earths radius
and this leads to yet smaller tides. But Earth's mass being about 81 times
the mass of the moon, this increases the tidal effect on the moon. When
you take all this into account what you get is very small tides on the
moon, but they do exist.

Good point. Is there a perigee/apogee effect as well I wonder? (similar to
the effect on the Jovian moons)

Yes there is a perigee/apogee effect but that is one of the components of
libration, so it isn't "as well". The moon is a little egg shaped because
of the tidal effect. When it gets closer to Earth it gets more egg shaped
and when it goes further from Earth it gets more spherical.

Alain Fournier

What's the average tidal flex heating of our Selene/moon ??? tw/hr

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth