...NASA resorts to "Third Red-Scare" to Save Moon Shot!!!

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...



On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:06:08 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Are you so insane and illogical as to think that this supports the
notion that "the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars?"


The Vision is quite clear that NASA must first get approval
from the Pentagon for all it's rocket designs. All of them.
Where have you been hiding your head? In the sand?
I thought everyone already knew about this policy?

Pentagon Signs Off on NASA Launcher Plans
By Brian Berger
Senior Space Writer
posted: 10 August 2005
04:43 pm ET

http://www.space.com/news/050810_dod_launcher.html


And there seems to be only rocket the Pentagon doesn't
much like, the Saturn 6. So I guess that means we
shouldn't hold our breath on it getting built.


You don't have to answer that question--it was rhetorical.


You don't have to apologize to me either Rand. I'm an
easy going sort.

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor


And now China is causing us to militarize our space program.
Going to the Moon is about missile defense.


In what alternate reality is this occurring?


You've already lost this debate once, do I need to
humiliate you yet again g?

Do you think we're going to spend $230 billion dollars
for four people on a moon base to do...what...monitor
global warming? What dream-world are you living in?

Our military posture via space since Bush couldn't
be more clear or more aggressive. Please try to read /past/
the first paragraph of the link below.


Master of Space

"Bush's timeplan for a permanent base on the moon by 2020,
coincides with Vision for 2020, a report from US Space
Command.
http://dedijer.com/article_frames.as...aster_of_Space

(Notice the large red beam from space zapping things
on the ground, and the Star Wars theme in the intro...
how could their intentions be mistaken at all???)

United States Space Command
VISION FOR 2020
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/doco...ac/visbook.pdf

Strategic Master Plan FY06 and Beyond
AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND
http://www.wslfweb.org/docs/Final%20...-Signed!v1.pdf

Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Missile Defense
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...108803,00.html


I mean, it's not like they're trying to hide the fact that space
is our next 'high ground' And it's obvious the moon is the
ultimate 'hill' from which to track and target everything
within earth's gravity well. I suppose placing the bases
on the poles of the moon, where the earth can be
observed almost continually, is just a coincidence?

Of course the military doesn't come out and flatly state
the moon is a golden military goal, as then other
countries might try to beat them to it. You're aware
of the saying "loose lips sink ships"...right?

OOPS, guess that ship has sailed....

Shooting for the moon: The new space race
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...ace/index.html

Are you guys like ON THE MOON ) LOL

The United Nations 1979 Moon Treaty Article 3 specifically PROHIBITS
military use of the Moon and other celestial bodies.

http://www.lunarregistry.com/treaties/treaty_1979.shtml


? Man do your research... now.. I'm not saying that treaty
hasn't been broken, but no evidence to date indicates any 1980's
exploration of the "high ground" I've heard of... Why?

Well its pretty hard to keep any kind of missile launch to the moon a
secret.. That's probably the only reason it hasn't. There are
what 2 or 3 probes in orbit around the moon at the moment?

Plus the LRO is launched in October.


On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, "jonathan"
wrote:


"Quadibloc" wrote in message
...


I think that a "third Red scare", in the sense of recognizing that
China is an enemy of liberty is entirely justified.


I couldn't agree more, and said so a hundred times.


But even if one
attributes ulterior motives to the current concern with China,


And now China is causing us to militarize our space program.
Going to the Moon is about missile defense. And this is
good for who exactly? Is it good for NASA, for the
taxpayers or for our future?


I would
think those motives are concerned with far more significant things -
from the viewpoint of politicians and wealthy men, that is - than the
space program.


It's NOT up to them.

We win a cold war through our economic strength, which allows
military superiority. The goal of our space program was shifted
from Space Solar Power to a military oriented goal by a very
few insiders with dubious motives. But our greatest future threat
is our dependence on foreign energy. It's our greatest single
national weakness.

The point is which direction is better? A reactionary space
program where the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars? Or a proactive response that could
keep our country economically strong /and/ independent
into the distant future?


(Even though in real terms, to our posterity, the space program is
perhaps the most significant thing of all.)


Science seems to be all about predicting the future, in order to build
a better one. But science is the most futile way of all to predict the
future as reality is non-linear and hence non-predictable long term.

The only /accurate/ way to predict the future, short or long term, is
by using our /imagination/ not science. By imagining the future
you ...desire....and then make it happen.

Let's have a little common sense please when its comes to
shaping the future please. We start that process with our dreams
not science.

I want a future where energy falls from the sky as our phone calls
do now. Cheap, endlessly abundant and absolutely clean energy
so that all those Trekkian dreams of equality, justice and
exploration can come true.

And ya know what, that future is not a pipe-dream.
It's right there, right at our fingertips...so close I can almost
smell it trying to escape from those smoke-filled
policy rooms.

Executive Summary
NASA's SPACE SOLAR POWER EXPLORATORY
RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY (SERT) PROGRAM
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1


If enough people want it badly enough, it'll happen.
That's the truth of our reality.
If we let the few take our future from us, they will
and they are doing it right now, right here.

But when the new administration takes a fresh look
at NASA, there's a golden chance to change course
back again. And make a difference that could create
an entirely different future, one with as much hope as
there is sunshine.

More of the same, and by the few, is just not acceptable
anymore. We need to /tell them/ which direction to take
...our...future.




John Savard