...NASA resorts to "Third Red-Scare" to Save Moon Shot!!!

I think that a "third Red scare", in the sense of recognizing that
China is an enemy of liberty is entirely justified. But even if one
attributes ulterior motives to the current concern with China, I would
think those motives are concerned with far more significant things -
from the viewpoint of politicians and wealthy men, that is - than the
space program.

(Even though in real terms, to our posterity, the space program is
perhaps the most significant thing of all.)

John Savard

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


We win a cold war through our economic strength, which allows
military superiority. The goal of our space program was shifted
from Space Solar Power to a military oriented goal by a very
few insiders with dubious motives.

In what alternate reality did this occur?

The point is which direction is better? A reactionary space
program where the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars?

In what alternate reality is that occurring?

If the Pentagon wanted to "use NASA as a way to leverage military
space dollars," it would have required the use of EELVs for VSE,
reducing costs for all the users, and not agreed to allow NASA to
build a new (sort of) "Shuttle-derived" launch system.

On Jul 19, 6:34 pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

We win a cold war through our economic strength, which allows
military superiority. The goal of our space program was shifted
from Space Solar Power to a military oriented goal by a very
few insiders with dubious motives.

In what alternate reality did this occur?

The point is which direction is better? A reactionary space
program where the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars?

In what alternate reality is that occurring?

Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- The top Air Force leadership sought for three years to
spend counter-terrorism money on "comfort capsules" for military
planes to ease the travel of senior officers and civilian leaders --
with at least four top generals involved in design details such as the
color of the capsules' carpet and leather chairs -- according to
internal e-mails and budget documents.

Production has begun for the first capsule -- two sealed rooms that
can fit in the fuselage of a large aircraft -- and four mobile pallets
containing plush, swiveling leather chairs with footrests.

Air Force officials say the new capsules are necessary to ensure that
leaders can talk, work and rest comfortably in the air.

And to think that all we had to rely on was a bar of chocolate in the
good old days when we ran an empire and wanted help to work, rest and
pay.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


"Quadibloc" wrote in message
...


I think that a "third Red scare", in the sense of recognizing that
China is an enemy of liberty is entirely justified.


I couldn't agree more, and said so a hundred times.


But even if one
attributes ulterior motives to the current concern with China,


And now China is causing us to militarize our space program.
Going to the Moon is about missile defense.

In what alternate reality is this occurring?

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:06:08 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Weatherlawyer made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

The point is which direction is better? A reactionary space
program where the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars?

In what alternate reality is that occurring?

Washington Post

WASHINGTON -- The top Air Force leadership sought for three years to
spend counter-terrorism money on "comfort capsules" for military
planes to ease the travel of senior officers and civilian leaders --
with at least four top generals involved in design details such as the
color of the capsules' carpet and leather chairs -- according to
internal e-mails and budget documents.

Production has begun for the first capsule -- two sealed rooms that
can fit in the fuselage of a large aircraft -- and four mobile pallets
containing plush, swiveling leather chairs with footrests.

Air Force officials say the new capsules are necessary to ensure that
leaders can talk, work and rest comfortably in the air.

And to think that all we had to rely on was a bar of chocolate in the
good old days when we ran an empire and wanted help to work, rest and
pay.

Are you so insane and illogical as to think that this supports the
notion that "the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars?"

You don't have to answer that question--it was rhetorical.

jonathan wrote:

.... I suppose placing the bases on the poles of the moon, where the
earth can be observed almost continually, is just a coincidence?

I won't mention that Earth can be observed continuously from /any/ point
on the Nearside.

(Hint: What /can/ be observed from the poles almost continuously that
cannot be observed continuously from anywhere else?)

--
Dave Michelson

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:47:01 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor


And now China is causing us to militarize our space program.
Going to the Moon is about missile defense.


In what alternate reality is this occurring?


You've already lost this debate once, do I need to
humiliate you yet again g?

It's not possible to do something "again" that never occurred the
first time.

Do you think we're going to spend $230 billion dollars
for four people on a moon base to do...what...monitor
global warming? What dream-world are you living in?

Our military posture via space since Bush couldn't
be more clear or more aggressive. Please try to read /past/
the first paragraph of the link below.

snip insanity

Of course the military doesn't come out and flatly state
the moon is a golden military goal, as then other
countries might try to beat them to it. You're aware
of the saying "loose lips sink ships"...right?

OOPS, guess that ship has sailed....

OK, I get it. You're nuts.

"Quadibloc" wrote in message
...


I think that a "third Red scare", in the sense of recognizing that
China is an enemy of liberty is entirely justified.


I couldn't agree more, and said so a hundred times.


But even if one
attributes ulterior motives to the current concern with China,


And now China is causing us to militarize our space program.
Going to the Moon is about missile defense. And this is
good for who exactly? Is it good for NASA, for the
taxpayers or for our future?


I would
think those motives are concerned with far more significant things -
from the viewpoint of politicians and wealthy men, that is - than the
space program.


It's NOT up to them.

We win a cold war through our economic strength, which allows
military superiority. The goal of our space program was shifted
from Space Solar Power to a military oriented goal by a very
few insiders with dubious motives. But our greatest future threat
is our dependence on foreign energy. It's our greatest single
national weakness.

The point is which direction is better? A reactionary space
program where the Pentagon uses NASA as a way to leverage
military space dollars? Or a proactive response that could
keep our country economically strong /and/ independent
into the distant future?


(Even though in real terms, to our posterity, the space program is
perhaps the most significant thing of all.)


Science seems to be all about predicting the future, in order to build
a better one. But science is the most futile way of all to predict the
future as reality is non-linear and hence non-predictable long term.

The only /accurate/ way to predict the future, short or long term, is
by using our /imagination/ not science. By imagining the future
you ...desire....and then make it happen.

Let's have a little common sense please when its comes to
shaping the future please. We start that process with our dreams
not science.

I want a future where energy falls from the sky as our phone calls
do now. Cheap, endlessly abundant and absolutely clean energy
so that all those Trekkian dreams of equality, justice and
exploration can come true.

And ya know what, that future is not a pipe-dream.
It's right there, right at our fingertips...so close I can almost
smell it trying to escape from those smoke-filled
policy rooms.

Executive Summary
NASA's SPACE SOLAR POWER EXPLORATORY
RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY (SERT) PROGRAM
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1


If enough people want it badly enough, it'll happen.
That's the truth of our reality.
If we let the few take our future from us, they will
and they are doing it right now, right here.

But when the new administration takes a fresh look
at NASA, there's a golden chance to change course
back again. And make a difference that could create
an entirely different future, one with as much hope as
there is sunshine.

More of the same, and by the few, is just not acceptable
anymore. We need to /tell them/ which direction to take
....our...future.




John Savard

"Dave Michelson" wrote in message
news:ugEgk.120626$gc5.22198@pd7urf2no...
jonathan wrote:

.... I suppose placing the bases on the poles of the moon, where the
earth can be observed almost continually, is just a coincidence?

I won't mention that Earth can be observed continuously from /any/ point
on the Nearside.

(Hint: What /can/ be observed from the poles almost continuously that
cannot be observed continuously from anywhere else?)


But the base also needs to be lit by the sun as much as possible
for solar power, and for the warmer day time temps.
The poles could have both properties, almost continual sunlight
and constant ability to observe.


I think some attractive spots would be the red areas near
the dark craters, where water ice might still linger.
http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/...ation_02.jp g



--
Dave Michelson

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:47:01 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:03:21 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor


And now China is causing us to militarize our space program.
Going to the Moon is about missile defense.


In what alternate reality is this occurring?


You've already lost this debate once, do I need to
humiliate you yet again g?

It's not possible to do something "again" that never occurred the
first time.


More like again and again. Why do you even try?



Please try to read /past/
the first paragraph of the link below.

snip insanity


Not even a paragraph this time? Come on!
Do I need to start using flash cards?



OK, I get it. You're nuts.


All I did was link to the military sites.
And you're right, they're a bit nuts.