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#11
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Marek Moskal wrote:
Herb Schaltegger wrote [30 Aug 2004]: Given I saw them stopping a car on 34th on Thursday of last week and demanding IDs, I'd say yes. Cops everywhere are employing their newly-confirmed power to demand identification without probable cause. Thanks, U.S. Supreme Court. Nice to know you're not immune to the "War on Terror" hysteria . . . :-/ There is a lot of irony in the fact that US people used to laugh at Eastern Europe people about that very thing... Still, it's very positive to hear that the guy not only survived but was also allowed to complete the task (although not as originally intended). Yes, he was. I only posted that little anecdote for its humor value, since it was related to me by someone who was there, not to make any kind of "statement". I'm sure anyone in the same position would have been stopped, not just guys named Abdullah. -- bp Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003 |
#12
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Andrew Gray wrote:
OTOH, Penn Station is still open, I'm told. That one must be a real headache... Yes, it is and yes, it is. What's curious is the news reporting on this aspect. On virtually every TV newscast (and there are 4 or 5 local ones in the NYC area) the spin is that commuters are staying home because of "fear of terrorism". Now that may be true of some small number of people but by far the larger reason seems to be that people simply want to avoid the nightmare of going in there this week, period. At least that's what I've heard from the people I deal with who normally commute to Manhattan every day. Can't say I blame them. You couldn't pay me enough to take the train into Penn station this week, and fear of terrorism has absolutely nothing to do with it. -- bp Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003 |
#13
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In article ,
Bruce Palmer wrote: I only posted that little anecdote for its humor value, since it was related to me by someone who was there, not to make any kind of "statement". I'm sure anyone in the same position would have been stopped, not just guys named Abdullah. That's even more of a "statement" to me: now cops can stop anyone, at any time, for no particular reason. It's not been very long since we had comedians on TV doing their schtick on Nazis and we all used to laugh about it. Remember the old, "Vere are your pa-perssss?!" bits? Well, substitute cops all over America for the Nazi buffoons from the skits and welcome to 21st Century America. I don't much like that part of it, frankly. The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution *used to* stand for the general proposition that cops pretty much had to leave you alone, absent probable cause to believe that both a crime had been committed and that you had committed it. They needed both before they could stop you, detain you and demand identification and perform any kind of search. I'm frankly astonished that more people are not upset about the fact that this is no longer the case. -- Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D. "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." ~ Robert A. Heinlein http://www.angryherb.net |
#14
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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:21:31 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
wrote: I don't much like that part of it, frankly. The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution *used to* stand for the general proposition that cops pretty much had to leave you alone, absent probable cause to believe that both a crime had been committed and that you had committed it. They needed both before they could stop you, detain you and demand identification and perform any kind of search. I'm frankly astonished that more people are not upset about the fact that this is no longer the case. ....Possibly because if you're not a minority, it usually doesn't happen to you. And even if you *are* a minority, if you a) don't look like someone from the Middle East, and/or b) aren't dressed up like a ghetto thug gangbanger out on the prowl, odds are that you won't be harassed either by a "surprise inspection". OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr |
#15
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"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message ... On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:21:31 -0500, Herb Schaltegger wrote: I don't much like that part of it, frankly. The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution *used to* stand for the general proposition that cops pretty much had to leave you alone, absent probable cause to believe that both a crime had been committed and that you had committed it. They needed both before they could stop you, detain you and demand identification and perform any kind of search. I'm frankly astonished that more people are not upset about the fact that this is no longer the case. ...Possibly because if you're not a minority, it usually doesn't happen to you. And even if you *are* a minority, if you a) don't look like someone from the Middle East, and/or b) aren't dressed up like a ghetto thug gangbanger out on the prowl, odds are that you won't be harassed either by a "surprise inspection". My wife and I were stopped by cops in central New Jersey in 1996. They had one of those roadblocks where they pull off everyone who looks suscpicious. We were in our early 30s, driving a 3-year old Toyota Camry, and were fairly well dressed. (I was driving my wife back from a job interview at CUNY). It was about 11pm on a Friday. They asked us where we were going, how long I had lived where I was, where I was from, and when my wife said that she was getting back from a faculty interview at CUNY, the cop made a snide comment about "so you think you're pretty smart, do you?". I have no idea why we in particular were stopped, or why we were so heavily interviewed. |
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Ami Silberman wrote: My wife and I were stopped by cops in central New Jersey in 1996. They had one of those roadblocks where they pull off everyone who looks suscpicious. We were in our early 30s, driving a 3-year old Toyota Camry, and were fairly well dressed. (I was driving my wife back from a job interview at CUNY). It was about 11pm on a Friday. They asked us where we were going, how long I had lived where I was, where I was from, and when my wife said that she was getting back from a faculty interview at CUNY, the cop made a snide comment about "so you think you're pretty smart, do you?". I have no idea why we in particular were stopped, or why we were so heavily interviewed. It was that "Honk If Your Wife Is A Thespian" bumper sticker. ;-) Pat |
#17
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In article ,
Bruce Palmer wrote: Ami Silberman wrote: My wife and I were stopped by cops in central New Jersey in 1996. They had one of those roadblocks where they pull off everyone who looks suscpicious. We were in our early 30s, driving a 3-year old Toyota Camry, and were fairly well dressed. (I was driving my wife back from a job interview at CUNY). It was about 11pm on a Friday. They asked us where we were going, how long I had lived where I was, where I was from, and when my wife said that she was getting back from a faculty interview at CUNY, the cop made a snide comment about "so you think you're pretty smart, do you?". I have no idea why we in particular were stopped, or why we were so heavily interviewed. That sort of thing has been SOP in NJ for years. When I lived there back in the md-80s I was always flabbergasted by how close the NJ State Police uniforms resemble those of a certain Reich (avoiding Godwin), complete with jackboots. NJ has always seemed to bend over backwards to intimidate their citizens with LE. The day I moved out of there was one of the happiest in my life. I missed Ami's original post, so I'm quoting it for context. Anyway, that sort of treatment was essentially unconstitutional prior to the recent Supreme Court decision I was referring to before. Ami *would have been* completely within his rights to tell them to shove it, beyond showing his drivers' license to comply with state laws regarding operation of a motor vehicle. His wife wouldn't have had to say a damn thing or even acknowledge them, absent probable cause on their part to believe a crime had been committed and that they might have been involved. *Sigh* -- Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D. "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." ~ Robert A. Heinlein http://www.angryherb.net |
#18
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"Herb Schaltegger"
His wife wouldn't have had to say a damn thing or even acknowledge them, absent probable cause Of course you are correct, no question. In the "real world", which includes NJ and all the other states, cops often ask a passenger for their name and so on. Their reasons and methods are inscrutable to all but themselves and maybe a few judges. It is curious that some cops, police officers, are sensitive to civil rights. I was expressing an opinion to an officer the other day that I thought that everyone should have an ID card. He said that he disagreed, and that if someone wants to walk down a street anonymously that they should be able to do so. Hell it may have been the same one who asked my passenger for ID earlier. |
#20
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In message , Revision
writes "Herb Schaltegger" His wife wouldn't have had to say a damn thing or even acknowledge them, absent probable cause Of course you are correct, no question. In the "real world", which includes NJ and all the other states, cops often ask a passenger for their name and so on. Their reasons and methods are inscrutable to all but themselves and maybe a few judges. It is curious that some cops, police officers, are sensitive to civil rights. I was expressing an opinion to an officer the other day that I thought that everyone should have an ID card. He said that he disagreed, and that if someone wants to walk down a street anonymously that they should be able to do so. Hell it may have been the same one who asked my passenger for ID earlier. AIUI, the police here are similarly opposed to it (after all, they don't want extra work which would hurt their chance for a 5-year "career break" - see today's papers here.) But then everyone except our Home Secretary and the firms that would make billions from amassing that personal data are opposed to ID cards. And even David Blunkett has been quiet about personal privacy since _his_ secrets were aired. Sorry, I'm feeling bitter. OT threads can be a bad idea! -- What have they got to hide? Release the ESA Beagle 2 report. Remove spam and invalid from address to reply. |
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