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  #11  
Old September 7th 14, 12:03 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

http://www.gautschy.ch/~rita/archast...liacsirius.JPG

When the great Egyptian astronomers first noticed that the star Sirius doesn't rise with the Sun as expected on the morning of the 365 day after 4 years they were witnessing an event which eventually points to the orbital motion of the Earth and the line of sight observation as the stars move in sequence behind the Sun and re-appear after a certain period -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ

As circumpolar motion generally swamps the lateral movement of the stars along the ecliptic plane and in roughly the same direction as the foreground motion of the planets it is no surprise that building a celestial sphere scaffolding that is RA/Dec was always going to be disruptive when referencing motions to each other and to the central Sun regardless of how convenient it is for predicting events within the calendar framework.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140620.html

Putting the Sun in circumpolar motion is beyond fundamentalism as it is pure poison for astronomy and Western society no matter how ingrained it is in instruction,after all, the fundamentalists only interpret observations in a facile way whereas distorting even the apparent motion of the Sun is so much more ridiculous.

This shouldn't be happening in the 21st century but the fact is that it is.
  #12  
Old September 8th 14, 05:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Saturday, 6 September 2014 21:09:20 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
On Saturday, September 6, 2014 1:16:13 AM UTC-6, Chris.B wrote:

ad nauseum [burp]



That should be (sic); it's ad nauseam.


John Savard


Err-um, error, erratum.. :-)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch: My prediction was proved 100% correct. His personal god tried to intervene with a meteorite (sic) but failed to hit the right spot. Not even the correct continent! He claims the mistake was entirely due to Oriel's extremely dodgy maths. No civilians were injured but slight damage was caused to a wooded area less than 1461 degrees from where St..Gerald is being held, ad infinitum, for his own [and our] safety.
  #13  
Old September 8th 14, 10:09 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Monday, September 8, 2014 5:26:03 PM UTC+1, Chris.B wrote:
On Saturday, 6 September 2014 21:09:20 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:

On Saturday, September 6, 2014 1:16:13 AM UTC-6, Chris.B wrote:




ad nauseum [burp]






That should be (sic); it's ad nauseam.






John Savard




Err-um, error, erratum.. :-)



Meanwhile, back at the ranch: My prediction was proved 100% correct. His personal god tried to intervene with a meteorite (sic) but failed to hit the right spot. Not even the correct continent! He claims the mistake was entirely due to Oriel's extremely dodgy maths. No civilians were injured but slight damage was caused to a wooded area less than 1461 degrees from where St.Gerald is being held, ad infinitum, for his own [and our] safety.


"Chris.B
3/9/08

to me
On Mar 9, 9:33 am, oriel36 wrote:

.I am glad I found who the detractor of Starlord is


Is this literally true?

Did you really discover Starlord's anonymous tormentor?

BTW: English for a trailer hitch is "tow hook".

While "bumper" is also English I have never heard the term "bumper
hitch" used.

Regards"

You aim for the bellylaugh but turn out to be another worthless tormentor playing with words but with nothing to say and destined for the same oblivion which offers no comfort or joy.

In short,if you want to know what a tormentor looks like then check out a mirror and you are not alone in this respect but it really doesn't bother me as it is not possible to turn a weakness into a strength.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Visual narratives light up observations including the ability to sort out all the issues that were swept under the carpet to make way for that jargon fest that became empiricism which in turn was a consequence of decisions made by denominational Christianity.

There should be a buzz of excitement around using these new tools to make sense of observations but sometimes there is a lag as they begin to shine through the hard shell of voodoo surrounding astronomy.




  #14  
Old September 9th 14, 05:42 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Lord Androcles[_3_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

never mind the tormentors, if you want to know what a demented unsuccessful
dementor looks like use a mirror.

  #15  
Old September 9th 14, 09:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

The riff-raff have been around long enough not to have any effect however it still doesn't account for the pure poison that passes itself off as astronomy,for instance the rising of the Sun and its motion due West is a signature that the Earth is round and rotating but empiricists have the Sun's apparent motion in circumpolar motion -

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

The topic of this thread is not addressed to those who can imagine such horrible things but people who may have withdrawn from participation because of it and many other instances of this tragedy dumped on humanity.

The Christian Churches are the real culprits in all this rather than those who can't discipline themselves to work with observational material and narratives hence the difficulties dealing with these incredibly important issues as opposed to a celestial sphere playground for magnification hobbyists.
  #16  
Old September 9th 14, 12:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Lord Androcles[_3_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy



"oriel36" wrote in message
...

The riff-raff have been around long enough not to have any effect
================================================== ====
Of course you don't have any effect. You can't answer a single question.

  #17  
Old September 9th 14, 04:48 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 1:28:53 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

... empiricists have the Sun's apparent motion in circumpolar motion -



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm


From that article...

"Let's imagine we're standing on the North Pole at the Summer Solstice as in Figure 2. The Sun (yellow dot) never sets. It's like one of those stars that make a complete circle about Polaris."

This is an incontrovertible fact, one that almost anyone can envision, even if they can't manage to actually visit the north pole at the summer solstice.

Get over it, because due to the rotation of Earth on its axis, nearly EVERYTHING in the sky appears to be circumpolar.
  #18  
Old September 10th 14, 09:09 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 4:48:57 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 1:28:53 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



... empiricists have the Sun's apparent motion in circumpolar motion -








http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm




From that article...



"Let's imagine we're standing on the North Pole at the Summer Solstice as in Figure 2. The Sun (yellow dot) never sets. It's like one of those stars that make a complete circle about Polaris."



This is an incontrovertible fact, one that almost anyone can envision, even if they can't manage to actually visit the north pole at the summer solstice.



Get over it, because due to the rotation of Earth on its axis, nearly EVERYTHING in the sky appears to be circumpolar.



I am sure you are a fine man in many respects however your views are far worse than that of a fundamentalist although they are in circulation within the education system as facts.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140620.html

The illusion of giving Polaris and its Southern equivalent an altitude above the local horizon and then have the Sun move in a circumpolar arc around those points doesn't bear thinking about,at least for any sane/reasonable person for the arcs are opposite to the actual daily motion of the Sun as it moves due West from the local horizon.The whole thing should have been dispensed with easily but there is a lack of a buzz surrounding the restructuring of astronomy towards visual narratives that nothing is getting done.

This is only really an issue within a framework of a much greater problem which boils down to a lack of self-discipline in an endeavor which happens to be one of the most important for humanity. It may be a popular choice for observers to presently declare themselves humble stargazers thereby attempting to avoid the train wreck we inherited but that has always been the case with astronomy when it became all too much for the Christian Churches and they divested themselves of their astronomical tradition. It is a daunting task to separate the predictive side of astronomy modeled on timekeeping averages from the most immediate experience of astronomy and the motions of the Earth via cause and effect but that may mean having to drag the Christian Churches back into the fray otherwise most here will have already worked their way up through the ranks and found themselves with a more vibrant astronomy and away from the voodoo and bluff that has previously taken its name.

So Paul, two separate arcs seen in that time lapse imaging should,beyond any doubt, show why it is not a good idea to use circumpolar motion as a means to describe the daily motion of the Sun above the local horizon as that would require 'two separate suns' to reconcile the ideology of the Sun's motion from horizon to horizon with a circumpolar star as a central focus for the Sun's apparent motion -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140620.html

Again,fundamentalism is one thing,this is something else.





  #19  
Old September 10th 14, 11:20 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 2:09:23 AM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:
the predictive side of astronomy modeled on timekeeping averages


You talk about using "timekeeping averages" as bad. But how can you measure the
average of the time between crossings of the meridian by the Sun, if you can't
measure that time - using a pendulum clock or some such thing - in the first
place?

So the use of mechanical time, using an element such as the pendulum - its
timekeeping application being discovered by no less than Galileo - is
fundamental; it must be done in order to measure individual days before they
can be averaged.

John Savard
  #20  
Old September 10th 14, 05:39 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:09:23 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

The illusion of giving Polaris and its Southern equivalent an altitude above the local horizon and then have the Sun move in a circumpolar arc around those points doesn't bear thinking about...


But that is just the point; if one were to just think about it with an open mind one would have to conclude that the Earth's daily rotation dictates that virtually everything that is essentially static in our daytime or nighttime sky must necessarily APPEAR to rotate about the poles. As you say, it is only an ILLUSION!

This is easy to document, using those nighttime long exposure photos that clearly shown the apparent motion of the stars encircling Polaris in the north, but anyone with logical thought processes should be able to extend that motion to stars further and further from the poles, including stars far from the poles that spend most of their time below the local horizon. The Sun, similarly being an object in the sky, is subject to the same illusion, which, by the way, would exist from the surface of every object in the universe that rotates with respect to the stars in their neck of the woods.

Get a grip, Gerald, you are making things much more complicated than they are in reality. You are arguing against apparent motion, just an illusion.

\Paul A
 




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