Coincidence of meteor strike and close asteroid approach at same time.

On 02/03/2013 18:10, Brad Guth wrote:
On Feb 28, 7:27 pm, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:

The Air Force has no "meteor
detections capability," secret or otherwise, because the AF is not in
the business of detecting meteors, even if it does so inadvertently
from time to time.

Chris L Peterson:

Actually, the military has superior meteor detecting capability. The
DOD satellites that continuously monitor the Earth looking for covert
nuclear explosions provide some of the best data available on meteors.

So it's like I said, the AF is not in the business of detecting
meteors, even if it does so inadvertently from time to time.

There are various systems to detect airburst nuclear explosions and all
of them (exept the long range earthquake detectors) saw the recent event
over Russia. As did enough serendipitous webcams to get a pretty good
fix on the trajectory from civilian data.

In a sense they have to be in the business of detecting meteors because
the most extreme ones may give false positives for a multi-kT airburst.
The speed of a meteor compared to a ballistic missile means that it is
outside their normal tracking velocity and range gate virtually until it
hits the atmosphere so it is no good for advanced warning.

Arecibo is the instrument of choice for ranging and tracking suspected
Earth imapctors - as happened with the one that slammed into the Nubian
desert in 2008 - ISTR with less than 24 hours warning.

http://phys.org/news/2010-12-meteori...tial-body.html

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

In other words, our USAF isn't in the business of tracking an incoming
50 Mt nuke from Russia or any other nation.

The orginal BMEWS was reckoned to be good enough to see a barn door over
Moscow and the detection limits of the new phased array kit is
classified but you can infer from the bits and pieces of space junk it
tracks in idle time is very small. It was designed to spot any incoming
ballistic missiles although in the early days it also saw the moon!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballist...Warning_System

BMEWS site 3A Fylingdales was still running a Cyber CDC 7600 for data
reduction from the old gear as late as the early 1990's.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 04/03/2013 07:11, Davoud wrote: Chris L Peterson:
it would make little sense for the military to be involved. We have
much more capable civilian agencies.

lal_truckee:
Identify one, please.

Chris L Peterson:
NASA. JPL. ESA. NSF. And dozens of universities.

These groups have the ability to more quickly respond to a threat from
space than the military? In particular, which university is ready for

Don't pin your hopes on the military responding *quickly* to a new
threat - they used to hand their prototype CCD chips over to certain
preferred university astronomy groups because they could build an entire
camera in less time than it took to get budget approval for a unit built
by military approved commercial contractors.

Sending Tom Cruise up to meet it in an F-16 will not cut the mustard.

this? What department in the NSF? I posit that these groups are all
ready to form committees to /discuss/ an incoming city buster. I don't
know that the military is ready now, either, but we know that they can
track and destroy satellites and I think that they could more quickly
develop an anti-meteorite capability than any of the groups you named.

The last time one was seen inbound the civilian system responded
remarkably well after optical observers saw something moving too fast to
solve they fed it to the minor planets centre and Arecibo resulting in a
predicted impact in the Nubian desert which was observed to occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_TC3#Explosion

The one over Russia came as a bit of a surprise as the NEO tracking and
detection systems have improved enormously over the years. They catch
almost all the comets this way long before amateurs get a look in.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 02:11:04 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris L Peterson:
NASA. JPL. ESA. NSF. And dozens of universities.

These groups have the ability to more quickly respond to a threat from
space than the military?

I think so. The military is poorly equipped to respond quickly to most
things. Its leadership lacks the education and intellect found in the
above agencies. It lacks a significant space infrastructure (or more
precisely, the infrastructure it has is very narrowly focused).

I guess it depends on how we define a "threat from space".
Realistically, that is likely to be something that we learn about
years in advance, and have time to direct careful thought towards
(e.g. Apophis). Such a threat would almost certainly be detected by a
civilian academic entity (or even an amateur astronomer), and would
probably be dealt with by a coordinated effort between agencies. While
the military might play a role (particularly with regards to funding),
it seems likely that a group like JPL or JHUAPL would take the primary
lead (under contract from NASA), since a mitigation effort would
involve scientific and engineering challenges that they are much
better equipped to handle than the military is.

An "anti-meteorite" system isn't going to happen. There will be no
star-wars network of space-based lasers to shoot down intruding rocks.
A defense against a threat from space will, for the foreseeable
future, be a one-off thing, customized to a single threat detected
well in advance. Because if we don't detect it well in advance, there
is no defense, regardless of agency.

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 08:17:44 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

There are various systems to detect airburst nuclear explosions and all
of them (exept the long range earthquake detectors) saw the recent event
over Russia. As did enough serendipitous webcams to get a pretty good
fix on the trajectory from civilian data.

In a sense they have to be in the business of detecting meteors because
the most extreme ones may give false positives for a multi-kT airburst.
The speed of a meteor compared to a ballistic missile means that it is
outside their normal tracking velocity and range gate virtually until it
hits the atmosphere so it is no good for advanced warning.

Funding for the meteoritics work I do comes partly from military and
nuclear non-proliferation organizations, interested in allsky cameras
and infrasound detectors focused on meteors, precisely because of the
concern that meteors can be confused with both covert nuclear
explosions and unannounced rocket launches. There is a real interest
in learning more about distinguishing the instrumental signatures of
these things.

Much of this concern stems to an incident about 20 years ago where a
very large meteoritic airburst triggered our launch detection systems.

On Mar 4, 4:25*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 02:11:04 -0500, Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson:
NASA. JPL. ESA. NSF. And dozens of universities.

These groups have the ability to more quickly respond to a threat from
space than the military?

I think so. The military is poorly equipped to respond quickly to most
things. Its leadership lacks the education and intellect found in the
above agencies.

The intellect !,let's see where all those billions of dollars shows up
in astronomical interpretation -

"This is a little hard to explain, but it also has to do with us
watching the Sun from a tilted perspective. The Earth spins on its
axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4
days per year."NASA

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970714.html

That is not only intellectual dysfunction,the inability to
distinguish right from wrong or what is integrity from what is not is
lost to what clearly is reasoning that would only be found in an
asylum.It shows up in your hatred of faith and all the creativity and
productivity surrounding truly religious people and for the life of me
I simply cannot come to terms with zero counter arguments apart from
my contributions.

Would anyone trust an organization that could not line up all the
effects within a 24 hour day with a turning Earth and keep those
number of turnings in step with each 24 hour day ?.










It lacks a significant space infrastructure (or more
precisely, the infrastructure it has is very narrowly focused).

I guess it depends on how we define a "threat from space".
Realistically, that is likely to be something that we learn about
years in advance, and have time to direct careful thought towards
(e.g. Apophis). Such a threat would almost certainly be detected by a
civilian academic entity (or even an amateur astronomer), and would
probably be dealt with by a coordinated effort between agencies. While
the military might play a role (particularly with regards to funding),
it seems likely that a group like JPL or JHUAPL would take the primary
lead (under contract from NASA), since a mitigation effort would
involve scientific and engineering challenges that they are much
better equipped to handle than the military is.

An "anti-meteorite" system isn't going to happen. There will be no
star-wars network of space-based lasers to shoot down intruding rocks.
A defense against a threat from space will, for the foreseeable
future, be a one-off thing, customized to a single threat detected
well in advance. Because if we don't detect it well in advance, there
is no defense, regardless of agency.

On 3/4/13 7:25 AM, Chris L Peterson wrote:
I think so. The military is poorly equipped to respond quickly to most
things. Its leadership lacks the education and intellect found in the
above agencies. It lacks a significant space infrastructure (or more
precisely, the infrastructure it has is very narrowly focused).

Those who do not remember Vanguard/Jupiter are condemned to crash on the
launch pad.

Also many of the acronymbic groups work for the military - their success
is military success as well.

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 08:42:00 -0800, lal_truckee
wrote:

Also many of the acronymbic groups work for the military - their success
is military success as well.

Indeed, the military recognizes its own limitations in space
technology, which is why so much of its space interests are contracted
to private or civilian agencies.

On Monday, March 4, 2013 8:28:34 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
On Mar 4, 4:25*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 02:11:04 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris L Peterson:

NASA. JPL. ESA. NSF. And dozens of universities.



These groups have the ability to more quickly respond to a threat from

space than the military?



I think so. The military is poorly equipped to respond quickly to most

things. Its leadership lacks the education and intellect found in the

above agencies.



The intellect !,let's see where all those billions of dollars shows up

in astronomical interpretation -



"This is a little hard to explain, but it also has to do with us

watching the Sun from a tilted perspective. The Earth spins on its

axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4

days per year."NASA



http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970714.html



That is not only intellectual dysfunction,the inability to

distinguish right from wrong or what is integrity from what is not is

lost to what clearly is reasoning that would only be found in an

asylum.It shows up in your hatred of faith and all the creativity and

productivity surrounding truly religious people and for the life of me

I simply cannot come to terms with zero counter arguments apart from

my contributions.



Would anyone trust an organization that could not line up all the

effects within a 24 hour day with a turning Earth and keep those

number of turnings in step with each 24 hour day ?.





















It lacks a significant space infrastructure (or more

precisely, the infrastructure it has is very narrowly focused).



I guess it depends on how we define a "threat from space".

Realistically, that is likely to be something that we learn about

years in advance, and have time to direct careful thought towards

(e.g. Apophis). Such a threat would almost certainly be detected by a

civilian academic entity (or even an amateur astronomer), and would

probably be dealt with by a coordinated effort between agencies. While

the military might play a role (particularly with regards to funding),

it seems likely that a group like JPL or JHUAPL would take the primary

lead (under contract from NASA), since a mitigation effort would

involve scientific and engineering challenges that they are much

better equipped to handle than the military is.



An "anti-meteorite" system isn't going to happen. There will be no

star-wars network of space-based lasers to shoot down intruding rocks.

A defense against a threat from space will, for the foreseeable

future, be a one-off thing, customized to a single threat detected

well in advance. Because if we don't detect it well in advance, there

is no defense, regardless of agency.

If you were to accidentally enter a freeway via an off-ramp as opposed to an on-ramp, I'm sure that you would be absolutely positive and fully convinced that there were hundreds and hundreds of motorists going the wrong way....

On Mar 4, 7:55*pm, palsing wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 8:28:34 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
On Mar 4, 4:25*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 02:11:04 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris L Peterson:

NASA. JPL. ESA. NSF. And dozens of universities.

These groups have the ability to more quickly respond to a threat from

space than the military?

I think so. The military is poorly equipped to respond quickly to most

things. Its leadership lacks the education and intellect found in the

above agencies.

The intellect !,let's see where all those billions of dollars shows up

in astronomical interpretation -

"This is a little hard to explain, but it also has to do with us

watching the Sun from a tilted perspective. The Earth spins on its

axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4

days per year."NASA

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970714.html

*That is not only intellectual dysfunction,the inability to

distinguish right from wrong or what is integrity from what is not is

lost to what clearly is reasoning that would only be found in an

asylum.It shows up in your hatred of faith and all the creativity and

productivity surrounding truly religious people and for the life of me

I simply cannot come to terms with zero counter arguments apart from

my contributions.

Would anyone trust an organization that could not line up all the

effects within a 24 hour day with a turning Earth and keep those

number of turnings in step with each 24 hour day ?.

*It lacks a significant space infrastructure (or more

precisely, the infrastructure it has is very narrowly focused).

I guess it depends on how we define a "threat from space".

Realistically, that is likely to be something that we learn about

years in advance, and have time to direct careful thought towards

(e.g. Apophis). Such a threat would almost certainly be detected by a

civilian academic entity (or even an amateur astronomer), and would

probably be dealt with by a coordinated effort between agencies. While

the military might play a role (particularly with regards to funding),

it seems likely that a group like JPL or JHUAPL would take the primary

lead (under contract from NASA), since a mitigation effort would

involve scientific and engineering challenges that they are much

better equipped to handle than the military is.

An "anti-meteorite" system isn't going to happen. There will be no

star-wars network of space-based lasers to shoot down intruding rocks..

A defense against a threat from space will, for the foreseeable

future, be a one-off thing, customized to a single threat detected

well in advance. Because if we don't detect it well in advance, there

is no defense, regardless of agency.

If you were to accidentally enter a freeway via an off-ramp as opposed to an on-ramp, I'm sure that you would be absolutely positive and fully convinced that there were hundreds and hundreds of motorists going the wrong way....

These are not creationist conditions but intellectual holocaust
conditions,the utter hatred of the 24 hour AM/PM system tied to the
Lat/Long system which gives a definitive equatorial speed of 1037.5
miles per hour is something the world has not seen before and the
misplaced pride in an ideology which loses all ties to cause and
effect between dynamics and terrestrial sciences being supported by so
many,even if by their silence,is remarkable to behold.The fact is that
I no longer need to repeat what principles and values are correct and
what exactly went wrong a few centuries ago but it still needs to be
addressed at that level.

The hatred of faith and the love people have for something greater
than their own existence so this is not about factual right and
wrong,this is an assault on human integrity, achievement,enjoyment of
the past and hope for the future.You have just enough intelligence to
type words but not enough to reason and especially with the weight of
history bearing down on that stupid late 17th century mistake that
tried to tie daily rotation directly to stellar circumpolar motion and
you certainly feel nothing for the catastrophic damage your empirical
culture continues to inflict on Western civilization and that is what
makes this situation so dangerous - there are not enough people who
can appreciate the situation as opposed to your community who lacks
the normal intellectual values associated with human intelligence.

I look at how doctors read x-rays and know what is wrong and how to
proceed,the joy of those sequence of images which clearly show why
axial precession must be modified to take into account the annual
orbital component which carries the polar coordinates in a cycle/
circle to the central Sun is more than enough for any astronomer -

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/...gs_changes.jpg

None of you can read the sequence of images,can you ?,you are full of
hatred and personal animosity but when faced with a simple sequence
like that you don't have the intuitive sense to put the motions in
context.That is all that counts and live your life like an open grave
if you so wish,what you practice is something less than astronomy when
you can't affirm the equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour and
subsequently the systems to which that value is attached.

On Mar 4, 7:51*pm, oriel36 wrote:

Usual rubbish deleted.


Sorry Oriel but you have been rumbled. For many years now you have
been recycling your arguments (your words BTW) on the outer fringes of
the astronomical world stating, but not explaining in any way, that
500 years worth of astronomers (your words BTW) are wrong and you are
right.

Isn't it time you stopped posting your extreme minority views on
threads that have nothing to do with your claims. It annoys other
people needlessly and does harm to the cause that you are, endlessly,
promoting.

Isn't it time that you tried to reach out to a new audience - one that
hasn't read (and rejected) your viewpoint quite literally hundreds of
times. If you care enough to post here multiple time a week - despite
widespread derision - why don't you care enough to explain your
viewpoint more clearly and most importantly why do so strongly and so
frequently refuse to answers any questions about your minority views.

Oriel crank, nutter or bot - frankly who cares?