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  #21  
Old September 10th 14, 07:13 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
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Default Predictions and astronomy

On Mar 9, 9:33 am, oaf of 1461 scribbled:
snip the untutored peasant's superstitious, predictable, fundamentalist crap

Starlord's cats quite probably knew more about astronomy than you ever will.. Simply by absorption from their uniquely gifted, yet impoverished master and teacher. Like many others his misfortunes were caused by others uncaring of his service to his country once he was no longer useful in feeding their corrupt greed for infinite wealth and power. No doubt the cats could also hold a far more interesting conversation on astronomy than you ever could.. Miaow!

An ancient, Australian Aborigine, who never enjoyed a day's schooling, knew far more about astronomy than you ever will. As did the Vikings and the peoples who explored and settled the Pacific Islands by use of the stars alone. The old civilisations made predictions on data completely beyond your most basic understanding.

You bluster and insult those who leave you for dead on every single aspect of astronomy you care to dredge up from your infantile comic-book fantasies.. Your only claim to fame is the corruption of the truth for the sake of some vague illusion of power. Unfettered greed for control of a few patient minds which eclipse your skull full of mouldy bread and potatoes like a supernova.

While you cling like a hemorrhoid to the evils of the Inquisition and illiterate, medieval superstition. Like some grovelling, unwashed peasant. Permanently and deliberately face-down in your blind ignorance of everything which does not instantly fill your mead belly.

You are unfit to clean the stables of the great astronomers you so despise. Those who dared to carve out the truth from the heavens despite the real threat to their lives and liberty by your deliberately backward ilk.

Your drooling repetitive idiocy has far more in common with today's fundamentalist religious bigots than Renaissance science. Without a single fiber of the truth, your chanting 1461, even until the cows come home, will never make a decent midden out of your unending, textual diarrhoea.

Is that enough words of torment for you, oaf of 1461? Miaow!
  #22  
Old September 10th 14, 09:34 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 5:39:27 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:09:23 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



The illusion of giving Polaris and its Southern equivalent an altitude above the local horizon and then have the Sun move in a circumpolar arc around those points doesn't bear thinking about...




But that is just the point; if one were to just think about it with an open mind one would have to conclude that the Earth's daily rotation dictates that virtually everything that is essentially static in our daytime or nighttime sky must necessarily APPEAR to rotate about the poles. As you say, it is only an ILLUSION!


Look at the vomit one more time for mid and equatorial latitudes where they assign a circumpolar arc to the Sun -

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

Fundamentalist ideologies read observations at face value, you lost souls on the other hand can't even manage to handle even the apparent observations as they appear to observers never mind the translation of these apparent motions up to including that one sunrise and sunset within a 24 hour period correlates to one rotation of the planet.

Do you not believe the stars come out 1461 times as it crosses four orbital circuits because that is the only observation and value that counts ?. The entire Western civilization,if it can now be called a civilization at all, cannot follow the dictates of people who truly force themselves to believe there are more rotations that sunrises/sunsets across a year and orbit of the Earth.













This is easy to document, using those nighttime long exposure photos that clearly shown the apparent motion of the stars encircling Polaris in the north, but anyone with logical thought processes should be able to extend that motion to stars further and further from the poles, including stars far from the poles that spend most of their time below the local horizon. The Sun, similarly being an object in the sky, is subject to the same illusion, which, by the way, would exist from the surface of every object in the universe that rotates with respect to the stars in their neck of the woods.



Get a grip, Gerald, you are making things much more complicated than they are in reality. You are arguing against apparent motion, just an illusion.



\Paul A

  #23  
Old September 11th 14, 12:24 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:34:13 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

Fundamentalist ideologies read observations at face value, you lost souls on the other hand can't even manage to handle even the apparent observations as they appear to observers never mind the translation of these apparent motions up to including that one sunrise and sunset within a 24 hour period correlates to one rotation of the planet.



Do you not believe the stars come out 1461 times as it crosses four orbital circuits because that is the only observation and value that counts ?


Sure, there are 1461 days and nights in 4 years because of Earth's daily rotations with respect to the Sun... but each non-circumpolar star that is observable from your location will rise, cross the meridian, and set 1465 times in 4 years, the extra rotation each due to the Earth's revolution about the sun once in each of those 4 years. Circumpolar stars in your location never rise or set, but they do cross the superior meridian 1465 times in 4 years. Sorry you don't get it, but it is an incontrovertible fact that can be observed by anyone who takes the time to make the measurement. You just can't deny reality when it comes to events that can be proven so very easily.... well, YOU can, but rational beings cannot. You have never answered the question, "A star returns to 2 sticks in 23 56 04, so what does this mean to you?" It must mean something, so what is it?

... The entire Western civilization,if it can now be called a civilization at all, cannot follow the dictates of people who truly force themselves to believe there are more rotations that sunrises/sunsets across a year and orbit of the Earth.


Perspective... if you only had some, you would be rich!
  #24  
Old September 11th 14, 08:24 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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On Thursday, September 11, 2014 12:24:55 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:34:13 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



Fundamentalist ideologies read observations at face value, you lost souls on the other hand can't even manage to handle even the apparent observations as they appear to observers never mind the translation of these apparent motions up to including that one sunrise and sunset within a 24 hour period correlates to one rotation of the planet.








Do you not believe the stars come out 1461 times as it crosses four orbital circuits because that is the only observation and value that counts ?




Sure, there are 1461 days and nights in 4 years because of Earth's daily rotations with respect to the Sun...


There are 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits for the very reason that brilliant men once saw the brightest star in the celestial arena come into view,this great star Sirius is therefore a marker for the orbital position of the Earth and the number of times the planet turns to reach that orbital position where Sirius is seen once more.



.... but each non-circumpolar star that is observable from your location will rise, cross the meridian, and set 1465 times in 4 years, the extra rotation each due to the Earth's revolution about the sun once in each of those 4 years.


Had somebody felt the satisfaction inherent in the actual system of references which arise from the purpose of the leap day rotation which corresponds to an extra rotation but also the additional distance the Earth travels through space to arrive back roughly at the same orbital position . It is a joy to behold how the extra rotation and orbital distance meshes in with the observation that Sirius will skip an appearance by one rotation after four cycles of 365 rotations/days.




Circumpolar stars in your location never rise or set, but they do cross the superior meridian 1465 times in 4 years.


You all ask yourselves a simple question - How fast does the Equator turn ?.. The answer is given by the 24 hour system along with the Lat/Long system or that the 24901 mile equatorial circumference turns at a whopping rate of 1037.5 miles per hour. I wouldn't even comment on that contrived nonsense of two separate rotations for the same reasons ,not even whether it is a personal embarrassment or a shame on Western civilization ,but it is prevalent .
  #25  
Old September 11th 14, 12:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:

Do you not believe the stars come out 1461 times as it crosses four orbital
circuits because that is the only observation and value that counts ?.


The stars come out when the Sun sets, so if that's what you mean, that is true.
Some people are reminding you that if we take the Julian calendar approximation
as fact, though, Sirius rises (whether we can see the rising or not, because of
the Sun) 1465 in those four years.

The entire Western civilization,if it can now be called a civilization at
all, cannot follow the dictates of people who truly force themselves to
believe there are more rotations that sunrises/sunsets across a year and
orbit of the Earth.


- What do you think of Western civilization, Mr. Gandhi?
- I think it would be a good idea.

You don't actually think that the distant stars rotate around the Sun once a
year, which would lead to the cosmology of Tycho Brahe.

To us, the cosmology of Tycho Brahe would, however, be the logical consequence
of having the Earth rotate once every 24 hours. Rotate *means* turn once in
absolute space, not turn once relative to the primary one is orbiting.

Even if now due to Albert Einstein we don't really believe in absolute space
any more.

Because the laws of the Earth's rotation are simpler to express relative to the
fixed stars than to the Sun, which the Earth orbits in an elliptical fashion,
and not in the plane of its equator, leading to the complexities of the
Equation of Time. A 24 hour rotation would have the Equation of Time as *part
of that rotation itself*, so such a rotation would be a compound motion, not a
simple motion.

And the Copernican system specifically came about to resolve retrogrades, to
turn the orbits of the planets other than Earth into simple motions instead of
compound ones. As was done with orbits, so must be done with rotations, that
the movements of the planets and their moons might be amenable to comprehension
and calculation.

John Savard
 




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