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News article on proposed amateur observatory
Mike Simmons wrote:
The Adirondack Public Observatory in upstate New York. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060129/...adirondack_sky What's a little sad about this is that, as you'll can see from the Clear Sky Clock Light Pollution Map at cleardarksky.com/lp/AdrnkPObNYlp.html Tupper Lake is one of the few places in Adirondack State Park that's *not* truly dark. (The other two concentrations of light are Saranac Lake and Lake Placid.) I wonder how much effect the new lighting policy described in the article will have. It's true that the proposed observatory is a mile or so out of town, which will definitely help. Unfortunately, it's placed so that south is going to be the worst direction by far. Even so, the skies at the observatory should be darker than most visitors have ever imagined. - Tony Flanders |
#12
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
wrote It's true that the proposed observatory is a mile or so out of town, which will definitely help. Unfortunately, it's placed so that south is going to be the worst direction by far. Even so, the skies at the observatory should be darker than most visitors have ever imagined. Tony, since you've been to southern Arizona, how would you comparatively rate the two "skies?" Howard Lester |
#13
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
Howard Lester wrote:
Tony, since you've been to southern Arizona, how would you comparatively rate the two "skies?" I assume you mean a dark site in southern AZ as compared to a dark site in the Adirondacks, right? It's an interesting question, and one that I'd like to write about at greater length when I get the time. As it happens, I don't get to the Adirondacks often these days. But I have spent some memorable nights in New Hampshire's White Mountain National Forest, which isn't as dark as the Adirondacks, but comes pretty close (in spots, anyway). Basically, I'm inclined to agree with Brian Skiff (and many others) that all dark sites are equally dark, and it's not all that hard to find places where light pollution is a non-issue -- at least, as long as you're observing stuff well off the horizon. Obviously, transparency is usually much better in AZ than in the Northeast. But we do get our share of nights with excellent transparency, especially in the fall and winter. Good transparency *and* good seeing both at once -- that's a whole 'nother story. Depressingly common in AZ and CA and vanishingly rare here. Anyway, I find that the esthetic differences between AZ and the Northeast -- being in the desert as opposed to being surrounded by trees -- are so big that it's hard to compare the two objectively. Also, there's the difference in latitude. Ten degrees makes a big difference when you're viewing stuff down in Sagittarius. - Tony Flanders |
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
wrote Tony, since you've been to southern Arizona, how would you comparatively rate the two "skies?" I assume you mean a dark site in southern AZ as compared to a dark site in the Adirondacks, right? Yes. And not only darkness, but the ability to see deeper due to transparency. I am guessing that skies comparably dark here (in Arizona) as there in the darkest sites in New England... one might be able to see deeper here due to the greatly reduced water vapor. Having lived under the skies here the last 27 years, and seriously considering moving to New England, I wonder just how much I'd be giving up! ;-) It's an interesting question, and one that I'd like to write about at greater length when I get the time. I'd look forward to reading that. Anyway, I find that the esthetic differences between AZ and the Northeast -- being in the desert as opposed to being surrounded by trees -- are so big that it's hard to compare the two objectively. Also, there's the difference in latitude. Ten degrees makes a big difference when you're viewing stuff down in Sagittarius. THAT is for sure. And to be able to see the entire sky from a really dark site here - no trees - is what I'd really describe as awesome. It's almost frightening. |
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
Howard Lester wrote:
I am guessing that skies comparably dark here (in Arizona) as there in the darkest sites in New England... one might be able to see deeper here due to the greatly reduced water vapor. Probably, but I don't think it's a major issue. The Northeast can get mighty clear air when a cold front sweeps in from Canada. I think the best nights at the best sites in the Northeast aren't far behind the best nights at the best sites in Arizona. Having lived under the skies here the last 27 years, and seriously considering moving to New England, I wonder just how much I'd be giving up! ;-) Now *that* is a whole different question! Obviously, you'd be giving up a huge amount. I consider myself extraordinarily lucky to get three or four nights of really good transparency per dark-Moon period. In the last three months, I've had a half dozen decent deep-sky nights, and none of those was really first-rate. (We've been having an abnormally warm and cloudy winter.) Moreover, the dark-sky sites in the Northeast are much rarer and less accessible than the dark-sky sites in the West. I've got a solid 2.5-hour drive -- in ideal traffic -- to get to any place that could plausibly be called dark. And even then, I've got to choose between places along highways that are plagued by a stream of headlights, places that can only be reached on foot, or places with an extremely limited view of the sky. - Tony Flanders |
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
wrote
.... Howard Lester wrote: Tony, since you've been to southern Arizona, how would you comparatively rate the two "skies?" I assume you mean a dark site in southern AZ as compared to a dark site in the Adirondacks, right? It's an interesting question, and one that I'd like to write about at greater length when I get the time..... Tony, et al: I rent a second home on Indian Lake NY right in the center of the Adirodacks. It is about 3 miles from the Wakely Mt. Deep Sky Clock site, which is rated Bortle Scale 1. It is *very* dark. M-33 is naked eye and the only way you know that there are passing clouds is that a patch of stars disappear. You can't see the bottom of the clouds. It is substantially darker than say the Stellafane site, and is as dark as I remember west Texas was when I lived there. The only bad part about this part of New York is that you are 90+ minutes in good weather from the nearest hospital (or Wal-Mart or anything but a tiny grocery store). If you have a medical emergency, you're dead. Anyway, I find that the esthetic differences between AZ and the Northeast -- being in the desert as opposed to being surrounded by trees -- are so big that it's hard to compare the two objectively. Also, there's the difference in latitude. Ten degrees makes a big difference when you're viewing stuff down in Sagittarius. The part about the southern sky is true, but it is dark right down to the horizon. I set my scopes (Obsession 20 or OGS 10-inch RC Cass on an MI-250) right on the shore of the lake. Indian Lake is 2 to 3 miles wide and 16 miles long. My view, is due north and south, and across the lake to the east. While not surrounded by trees, I am, on most summer nights at least, surrounded by black bears and coyotes. I've had up to 3 bears near by while observing. But I also have bears and coyotes in my southern NY primary home's backyard too. I mentioned the "Wakely Mt. Clear Sky Clock": it's there because there is a free State primitive camping area there at the end of a 4 mile dirt road. It is a large open area on the edge of a wilderness lake with plenty of room to set up a lot of scopes. I'd say that there are 6 or 10 camp sites completely in the open, each with a table and fire ring. There are twice as many sites that sit back in the woods. The lake is great for canoeing and swimming. This camping area is used regularly by a group of amateur astronomers from Canada. The dirt road continues for 50+ miles thru State land with small lakes and camp sites, but this section is not plowed during the winter. About a mile down the dirt road there is a golf course, but, since I have my own location, I've never asked the very nice owners if I could set up there at night. It would be a great location since the course is very open. It has beautiful views of mile high mountains in the distance. George Normandin |
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
"Rich" wrote
.... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:48:43 -0800, Mike Simmons wrote: The Adirondack Public Observatory in upstate New York...... "Subzero winter nights are particularly good, with low humidity and clear, magnified skies, amateur astronomer Mark Staves said. That's when he likes to take his telescope outside in Tupper Lake." Magnified skies? Rich, I hang out a lot at the Kopernik Obs (www.kopernik.org), a similar public observatory in southern NY. A few years ago our local news paper had an article on the front page titled: "Kopernik gets new CCD camera to image three galaxies". I wonder if the donors of the SBIG STL-1301E camera and 20-inch RC Cass realized that we were only going to take three pictures? What's that: $30,000 per galaxy? George Normandin |
#19
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News article on proposed amateur observatory
"George Normandin" wrote I rent a second home on Indian Lake NY right in the center of the Adirodacks. It is about 3 miles from the Wakely Mt. Deep Sky Clock site, which is rated Bortle Scale 1. It is *very* dark. M-33 is naked eye and the only way you know that there are passing clouds is that a patch of stars disappear. ---------- 8 Thank you, George. All that you wrote is good, useful information. |
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