Cooperation - a natural instinct more powerful than competition

Scott Lowther wrote:

Whoosh! And another one goes right over Mr. Mook's head.


In a laser powered flying car, no doubt. ;-)

Pat

Christopher M. Jones wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:

Christopher M. Jones wrote:

Beaver dams are not technology so far as I know. I believe
that if you take a Beaver who has been raised in captivity or
isolation and release it into the wild it will still know how
to build dams. This is not technology. Technology is the
study ("logi") of a skill ("teks"), it necessarily, by
definition, involves the transfer of knowledge from individual
to individual.


I don't know about that; human's are born with an instinct to throw
things; if you throw a rock to kill a prey item, are you using
technology? You are manipulating a object in your natural environment
to achieve a desired end.


If you do something instinctually, then by definition it is
not technological. Please note carefully the differences
between tool use and technology. A great many (like nearly
all) anthropologists screwed the pooch on this one when
they tried to define the uniqueness of humanity through tool
use. Tool use is a part of it, but technology is the key,
technology is the teaching and learning of tool usage, which
is where humans excel and are unique. It's the ability to
redefine behavior and such like based on learning that
defines humanity, and "intelligent" species in general. It
is that evolution of information which determines behavior,
ecological niche, etc. *outside* of ordinary genetic
processes and at a tremendously faster pace which make humans
and technology notable and special.

Not all animal behavorior is instinct. Birds and mammals (other than
humans) learn from their parents & group. If I recall correctly Dawkins'
meme notion started when he noticed birds pass songs from generation to
generation.

How much of beaver dam building techniques are hardwired or learned I
don't know.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Hop David wrote:

How much of beaver dam building techniques are hardwired or learned I
don't know.


Just read of the aggie grad student experiment as described by OM.
I guess dam building is hardwired.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

"William Mook" wrote in message
oups.com...

Animals compete with one another for limited resources. This is what
drives evolutionary development.

Only one of several forces that do.

Well, humans are the only species that use technology to extend their
range.

If you define "technology" I think you'll find that statement to be a
tautology.

A range is an area an animal species makes a living.

Except when an animal is migrating through it. Depends what you mean by
"make a living" though.

Humans
first appeared in the same place lowland apes live today - Olduvai
Gorge Africa.

We don't know that specifically. But the general area is east Africa, as
far as is known.

But humans became more than lowland apes. They
developed technology - clothing, fire, shelter - sufficient to extend
their range. Now humans are found throughout the Earth.

True enough.

But, before the Earth was full of humans, which occurred about 10,000
years ago - about the length of recorded history, humans existed at a
center surrounded by a frontier. The frontier had more resources than
the center, and no competing tribes to fight. So, there were profits
to be made by people and tribes cooperating to make use of this
frontier. This period of time was long enough for cooperative behavior
to leave its mark on human physiology. The time it took humanity to
spread from Olduvai Gorge to the ends of the Earth was about 2 million
years! Enough time for the cooperative behaviors that paid out so
handsomely to be recorded deeply in our biology as a cooperative
instinct.

I think it far safer to say that cooperation with friends and bashing the
skulls in of non-friends is the rule here. Cryptic estrus plays a huge role
here - imagine what humanity would be like if human estrus was like that of
the chimpanzee. We wouldn't get much done.

Now, since the Earth has filled with humans this cooperative instinct
appears useless or even harmful since again, resources are limited and
there is no frontier in which to expand.

I would say that it becomes more important than ever. Small world, and all
that.

But of course there is a frontier. Its called interplanetary space.
And by tapping resources in that frontier we re-assert what it means to
be human and are permitted the creation of a human and humane culture
in the future.

I'm all for space exploration

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:09:34 -0700, Hop David
wrote:

Just read of the aggie grad student experiment as described by OM.
I guess dam building is hardwired.

....That's the theory at this time, and may be linked to nest building
instincts as well.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...


William Mook wrote:


Well, humans are the only species that use technology to extend their
range.


Beavers and beaver dams.

Pat
Otters and rocks (to crack open shellfish)
Chimps prepare sticks to use to extract ants from ant hills.

Ami Silberman wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...


William Mook wrote:


Well, humans are the only species that use technology to extend
their
range.


Beavers and beaver dams.

Pat
Otters and rocks (to crack open shellfish)
Chimps prepare sticks to use to extract ants from ant hills.

This is certainly the use of technology - it doesn't extend their range
though.

Pat Flannery wrote:
William Mook wrote:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/is/living/beavers.pdf

Beavers certainly build dams within their range and can
significantly
modify conditions within that range. What makes you think beaver
dams
can extend the range of the beaver?



By allowing them to live in areas that under natural conditions (a
small
stream, rather than a large wetland) would be too dry for their
liking.
Range increase doesn't need be north or south into cooler or warmer
climates, it can be east or west into areas that are not normally
friendly to the species as well.

You obviously misunderstand the definition of an animal's range;

http://www.saskschools.ca/~gregory/animals/bvr1.html

The beaver's range extends from Alaska to the Southern United States.
While beavers certainly build dams within this range to increase their
numbers, they do not extend their range by their efforts.



Pat

William Mook wrote:

You obviously misunderstand the definition of an animal's range;

http://www.saskschools.ca/~gregory/animals/bvr1.html

The beaver's range extends from Alaska to the Southern United States.
While beavers certainly build dams within this range to increase their
numbers, they do not extend their range by their efforts.



Which assumes that the beavers covered this entire area from time
immemorial; if the beavers move even one mile up a stream via dam
building into an area that was unoccupied by them before, then their
range was increased.

This reminds me of a song:


Beaver Patrol

by Pop Will Eat Itself

[s]"Attention young ladies, attention young ladies!" (x2)

My favourite way of getting kicks
I go down town, I hustle chicks - Beaver Patrol! (Beaver Patrol!)
A Rolls Royce, a limousine
The girls all groove for my machine - Beaver Patrol! (Beaver Patrol!)
[s]"Huh-uh-huh-uh.."
I cruise the drive-ins of this town
Not once has a girl shot me down - Beaver Patrol! (Beaver Patrol!)
One good thing that's on my side
It's a big bad car, it's out of sight - Beaver Patrol!

[CHORUS]
Beaver Patrol (Cruisin' on the beaver patrol, I love that beaver)
Beaver Patrol (Cruisin' on the beaver patrol, I love it, love it, love it)
Beaver Patrol (Cruisin' on the beaver patrol, I love that beaver)
Beaver Patrol (Cruisin' on the beaver patrol, I love it, love it, love it)

Give me some more, give me some more

The Beaver Patrol sees lots of action
Oh I do love that satisfaction - Beaver Patrol! (Beaver Patrol!)
In this game, you don't need muscle
All you gotta do is hustle - Beaver Patrol!

[CHORUS]

I pull in the drive, I shut off the key
I say to the girl "Will you sit by me?"
I say to her "Darlin' what's your name"
I say to myself I'm proud I came
She's trying to make me happy with all her might
But all you gotta do honey is make me feel alright

My favourite way of getting kicks
I go down town, I hustle chicks - Beaver Patrol! (Beaver Patrol!)
One good thing that's on my side
It's a big bad car, it's out of sight - Beaver Patrol!

[CHORUS] (x2)

[s]"How do you keep your wheels spinning when the Beaver's grinning eh?"
[s]"I'm out"


There's a message in that song; either you are finding beavers, or you're up the crick without a dam paddle. :-)

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:


This reminds me of a song:


Beaver Patrol

by Pop Will Eat Itself

And don't forget Wynona's Big Brown Beaver by Primus:

Wynona’s got herself a big brown beaver
And she shows it off to all her friends.
One day, you know, that beaver tried to leave her,
So she caged him up with cyclone fence.
Along came lou with the old baboon
And said recognize that smell?
Smells like seven layers,
That beaver eats taco bell.
Now rex he was a texan out of new orleans
And he travelled with the carnival shows.
He ran bumper cars, sucked cheap cigars
And he candied up his nose.
He got wind of the big brown beaver
So he thought he’d take himself a peek,
But the beaver was quick
And grabbed him by the kiwis.
Now he ain’t ****ed for a week.
(and a half!)
Now wynona took her big brown beaver,
And she stuck him up in the air.
Said I sure do love this big brown beaver
And I wish I did have a pair.
Now the beaver onces slept for seven days
And it gave us all an awful fright.
So I tickled his chin and I gave him a pinch
And the ******* tried to bite me.
Wynona loved her big brown beaver
And she stroked him all the time.
She pricked her finger one day and it
Occurred to her she might have a porcupine.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html