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The First Known Interstellar Comet



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 27th 17, 06:31 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Friday, 27 October 2017 09:37:49 UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:36:46 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Just because you think that you were the first to recognize this material does not mean you were, you were simply late to the party.


... and in fact Gerald still does not understand retrogrades of the inferior planets even as well as Hipparchus did. When shown the actual path of Venus against the background stars, he does not believe it.


Hipparchus was probably a genius.

The troll known as '1461' has severe, long term, mental health problems and would not, knowingly, admit to anything recognized by science.

The denser they are the greater their belief in themselves.
Always the Napoleon. Never the orderly.
This dunce could not light a fire under science even with two sticks.
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  #12  
Old October 27th 17, 07:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 27 October 2017 09:37:49 UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:36:46 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Just because you think that you were the first to recognize this material does not mean you were, you were simply late to the party.


... and in fact Gerald still does not understand retrogrades of the inferior planets even as well as Hipparchus did. When shown the actual path of Venus against the background stars, he does not believe it.


Hipparchus was probably a genius.

The troll known as '1461' has severe, long term, mental health problems and would not, knowingly, admit to anything recognized by science.

The denser they are the greater their belief in themselves.
Always the Napoleon. Never the orderly.
This dunce could not light a fire under science even with two sticks.


.... and a stopwatch...
  #13  
Old October 27th 17, 09:06 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:20:40 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 27 October 2017 09:37:49 UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:36:46 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Just because you think that you were the first to recognize this material does not mean you were, you were simply late to the party.

... and in fact Gerald still does not understand retrogrades of the inferior planets even as well as Hipparchus did. When shown the actual path of Venus against the background stars, he does not believe it.


Hipparchus was probably a genius.

The troll known as '1461' has severe, long term, mental health problems and would not, knowingly, admit to anything recognized by science.

The denser they are the greater their belief in themselves.
Always the Napoleon. Never the orderly.
This dunce could not light a fire under science even with two sticks.


... and a stopwatch...


You stoop to that guy and perhaps I have thought more of you than I should.

For whatever reason you have a mental block when it comes to putting the 24 hour day in order with its subdivisions of hours,minutes and seconds. This allowed accurate clocks to be developed for determining separation using the correlation of 1 hour time difference equating to 15 degrees geographical separation even when the distance reduces across latitudes.

I could go to great lengths in talking about the need for meridian lines which serve the terrestrial based reference and the stationary Sun as the line passes in front of the Sun and midway either side of the circle of illumination (noon) but somehow when you all have it in your heads to ignore the actual reference systems and the great people who's work will eventually shine through.

Again, you lowered yourself Paul when responding to that noisebox so you must be genuinely desperate.



  #14  
Old October 27th 17, 09:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 10:31:12 -0700 (PDT), Chris.B wrote:

On Friday, 27 October 2017 09:37:49 UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:36:46 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Just because you think that you were the first to recognize this material does not mean you were, you were simply late to the party.


... and in fact Gerald still does not understand retrogrades of the inferior planets even as well as Hipparchus did. When shown the actual path of Venus against the background stars, he does not believe it.


Hipparchus was probably a genius.

The troll known as '1461' has severe, long term, mental health problems and would not, knowingly, admit to anything recognized by science.

The denser they are the greater their belief in themselves.
Always the Napoleon. Never the orderly.
This dunce could not light a fire under science even with two sticks.


I disagree with Gerald for the very same reasons as most everyone else;
but c'mon...
--
Email address is a Spam trap.
  #15  
Old October 28th 17, 12:55 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 2,599
Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 1:06:57 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:20:40 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 27 October 2017 09:37:49 UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:36:46 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Just because you think that you were the first to recognize this material does not mean you were, you were simply late to the party.

... and in fact Gerald still does not understand retrogrades of the inferior planets even as well as Hipparchus did. When shown the actual path of Venus against the background stars, he does not believe it.

Hipparchus was probably a genius.

The troll known as '1461' has severe, long term, mental health problems and would not, knowingly, admit to anything recognized by science.

The denser they are the greater their belief in themselves.
Always the Napoleon. Never the orderly.
This dunce could not light a fire under science even with two sticks.


... and a stopwatch...


You stoop to that guy and perhaps I have thought more of you than I should.

For whatever reason you have a mental block when it comes to putting the 24 hour day in order with its subdivisions of hours,minutes and seconds. This allowed accurate clocks to be developed for determining separation using the correlation of 1 hour time difference equating to 15 degrees geographical separation even when the distance reduces across latitudes.

I could go to great lengths in talking about the need for meridian lines which serve the terrestrial based reference and the stationary Sun as the line passes in front of the Sun and midway either side of the circle of illumination (noon) but somehow when you all have it in your heads to ignore the actual reference systems and the great people who's work will eventually shine through.

Again, you lowered yourself Paul when responding to that noisebox so you must be genuinely desperate.


Gerald, no matter what you say or think, a star returns to 2 sticks every 23 56 04. Just about everyone knows this, and we define this as a Sidereal Day. Even you can make this measurement for yourself. for it is incontrovertible. What is your own interpretation of this easily verifiable measurement?

I'm pretty sure this same question has been asked of you several times in the past, but I don't remember if you've ever answered it... but I doubt it. The obvious answer would pretty much destroy *your* way of thinking...
  #16  
Old October 28th 17, 08:41 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 5:56:01 PM UTC-6, palsing wrote:

Gerald, no matter what you say or think, a star returns to 2 sticks every 23 56
04. Just about everyone knows this, and we define this as a Sidereal Day. Even
you can make this measurement for yourself. for it is incontrovertible. What is
your own interpretation of this easily verifiable measurement?


I'm pretty sure this same question has been asked of you several times in the
past, but I don't remember if you've ever answered it... but I doubt it.


Why, he has answered it countless times!

Point 1:
"Stellar circumpolar motion" is all very well, and one can certainly take into
account its periodicity as an "observational convenience" when designing, say,
clock drives for telescopes.

But if you will look at a clock, you will find that its hour hand returns to the
12 every 12 hours - so it does that twice in 24 hours. Not 23 hours, 56 minutes,
and 4 seconds.

So the 24 hour average day, not the "sidereal day", which forms the basis of our
calendar system and all our time measurement, is what is important and
fundamental.

....so he is well aware that 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds is the time between stellar transits. His interpretation of that fact is "So what?".

Point 2:
The geocentric astronomers, who followed Ptolemy, were mistaken in thinking that the Sun and the planets all went around the Earth. Copernicus was right; like the other planets, the Earth orbits the Sun. So we need to bring our thinking up-to-date.

An Earth-centered coordinate system is, thus, all very well for the purpose of tracking the movements of cars, boats, and airplanes. But the movements of the planets are properly understood from the viewpoint of a Sun-centered coordinate system.

The Earth being a celestial body, its rotation is a celestial motion, and this rule applies to that.

....and, of course, while the first two paragraphs state the obvious truth, it is
in the third paragraph where he goes off the rails.

Because his idea of a "Sun-centered coordinate system" for the Earth's rotation
isn't the one formed by the Sun and the fixed stars - which would be indeed just
peachy for keeping track of planetary orbits. And in which the Earth's rotation
would indeed have a constant period of 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.

Instead, since clearly (to him) parallax invalidates any attempt to transfer
Sun-centered *directional* co-ordinates to the Earth, the only right and proper
truly Copernican Sun-centered system against which to judge the rotation of the
Earth...

is the one proposed by Tycho Brahe.

Oops.

So you _are_ indeed right that if he ever tried to explain himself *in
sufficient detail* as to get down to where he is contradicting himself, he would
have to face the flaw in his way of thinking.

But he refuses to go that far; he is content to rest serenely with the
unquestionable truth of his mass of verbiage on the subject.

John Savard
  #17  
Old October 28th 17, 10:15 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 12:56:01 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 1:06:57 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:20:40 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 27 October 2017 09:37:49 UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:36:46 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Just because you think that you were the first to recognize this material does not mean you were, you were simply late to the party.

... and in fact Gerald still does not understand retrogrades of the inferior planets even as well as Hipparchus did. When shown the actual path of Venus against the background stars, he does not believe it.

Hipparchus was probably a genius.

The troll known as '1461' has severe, long term, mental health problems and would not, knowingly, admit to anything recognized by science.

The denser they are the greater their belief in themselves.
Always the Napoleon. Never the orderly.
This dunce could not light a fire under science even with two sticks.

... and a stopwatch...


You stoop to that guy and perhaps I have thought more of you than I should.

For whatever reason you have a mental block when it comes to putting the 24 hour day in order with its subdivisions of hours,minutes and seconds. This allowed accurate clocks to be developed for determining separation using the correlation of 1 hour time difference equating to 15 degrees geographical separation even when the distance reduces across latitudes.

I could go to great lengths in talking about the need for meridian lines which serve the terrestrial based reference and the stationary Sun as the line passes in front of the Sun and midway either side of the circle of illumination (noon) but somehow when you all have it in your heads to ignore the actual reference systems and the great people who's work will eventually shine through.

Again, you lowered yourself Paul when responding to that noisebox so you must be genuinely desperate.


Gerald, no matter what you say or think, a star returns to 2 sticks every 23 56 04. Just about everyone knows this, and we define this as a Sidereal Day. Even you can make this measurement for yourself. for it is incontrovertible. What is your own interpretation of this easily verifiable measurement?


The 24 hour weekday is a product of very specific references which require the alignment of two shadows created by two foreground sticks denoting a longitude meridian that runs from pole to pole -

" Draw a Meridian line upon a floor (the manner of doing which is sufficiently known; and note, that the utmost exactness herein is not necessary and then hang two plummets, each by a small thred or wire, directly over the said Meridian, at the distance of some 2. feet or more one from the other, as the smalness of the thred will admit. When the middle of the Sun (the Eye being placed so, as to bring both the threds into one line) appears to be in the same line exactly ) you are then immediately to set the Watch, not precisely to the hour of 12. but by so much less, as is the Aequation of the day by the Table" Huygens

https://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

This average 24 hour day creates the timekeeping divisions of hours,minutes and seconds and a clock registers the constant pace of each. They originally calibrated clocks to the return of a star to two foreground points in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds however the observation using two sticks doesn't require a reference to the planet's rotation or longitudes (Lat/Long system) and is homocentric in nature where the stars whirl in a celestial sphere motion around the individual. Watch the motion of a Goto telescope as it swivels around its own individual axis and that is homocentricity . Correlating the timekeeping period and stellar circumpolar motion to constant daily rotation (RA/Dec) is truly awful.





  #18  
Old October 28th 17, 04:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

Like I said before, Gerald, it would a take years for you to un-learn the astronomy that you *think* you know now, for a vast majority of it is just plain wrong...
  #19  
Old October 28th 17, 06:30 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Saturday, 28 October 2017 17:40:54 UTC+2, palsing wrote:
Like I said before, Gerald, it would a take years for you to un-learn the astronomy that you *think* you know now, for a vast majority of it is just plain wrong...


The history of 1461's knowledge, social skills, grammar, vocabulary and understanding of science are indistinguishable from a very early and very crude form of childlike AI.

He could barely manage a meaningful sentence and completely ignored comments for years, at the start of his strange, online behaviour on this forum. He now sounds like an astronomical thesaurus but is certainly none the wiser for it.

Perhaps he is simply autistic? Or is recovering from a stroke? I do not favour kicking drooling idiots in wheelchairs. But most drooling idiots in wheelchairs do not perform as strangely as he does. Most are unlikely to enjoy the continuing freedom of the internet.

His constant iteration of the same message has certainly grown more skillful but also far more aggressive. Would a common parrot behave similarly if exposed to years of the same, narrow historical-astronomical vocabulary? Can a parrot type?

If 1461 is simply a tediously patient troll. One getting private laughs for endless repetition, then his behaviour is very, very far from normal.

I am not aware of any AI which can manage his textual conjuring tricks even within his own, narrow vocabulary. Perhaps there is a constantly changing team of insane students who are grudgingly allowed to prompt and insert new terms for their AI "puppet" to perform, on this, our tiny stage? This might be explained by an educational mentor who constantly outlives his deranged students much shorter term "in office."

One of our number once claimed to have met the 1461 persona but he has never expanded on that initial statement. One wonders in which context our forum member might have run across 1461?

Clues suggest an Irish origin with [fading] religious overtones. But can our untamed, astronomical "imbecile" be truly an internationally mobile professional with an incredibly warped sense of humour? Perhaps the meeting was simply an accident as the result of a return to Ye Olde Countrie as do so many of our colonial cousins?

1461 is an irritating problem which I would like to have solved before I become stardust. Just as I wish for an explanation for the dark, featureless, wedge-shaped object which passed slowly and almost silently over our rural garden a couple of decades go. There's no rush for an answer. Just as long as it is convincing. ;-)
  #20  
Old October 29th 17, 08:00 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default The First Known Interstellar Comet

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 4:40:54 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
Like I said before, Gerald, it would a take years for you to un-learn the astronomy that you *think* you know now, for a vast majority of it is just plain wrong...


There is no wrong in the stars and for my part in the journey through life and with each cycle, the familiar changes are like old friends even without the motions behind those changes. In San Diego those changes are not as distinctive or dramatic as where I live but just for observing the celestial arena you certainly have the better location by far.

I left a perspective unexplained in the hope that you or someone really familiar with the scheme of left/right,evening/morning appearance that doesn't survive in an RA/Dec framework. This is the language of the new software which runs observations off the Earth's orbital motion alone instead of the restrictive celestial sphere convenience -

http://www.nakedeyeplanets.com/const...c-labelled.png





 




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