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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 4th 17, 05:35 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 512
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris
L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't
think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can
fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like all
electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars,
there will be more mechanics who can deal with them
than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline
vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road
will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing running. I
talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said-
diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than
train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for
software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist.
Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is
pretty much a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German
cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing
breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a
Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half
decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any
competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had
the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on
paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but
not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys
for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even
diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of
dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and
it's different hardware and software for different
manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to
generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership,
and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most
carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but
a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything
now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which
forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The
engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand,
doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in
2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard,
that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same
thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The
disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300
each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go
to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key
will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local
Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that
doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel
injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for
$80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after.
Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because
dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security
code has to be installed too. They work together. New
computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600!
LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car!
(o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and
is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer
possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all
critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to
*run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now,
because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17
year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a
car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven
year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for
enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will
outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway.
Convenience is worth the extra expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a
new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance
break, because I drive less than 5K millage!


I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California,
it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever
driving you do.


Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better
cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one,
others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both.


Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars.
All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars.
I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space.
http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...llic-535is.jpg


.....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun!
Ads
  #22  
Old October 4th 17, 05:37 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't
think there's a mechanic at every corner, who
can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like all
electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric
cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal
with them than mechanics who know what to do
with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the
cars on the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing running.
I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said-
diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than
train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K
for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars
still have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more
than trivial repairs require the dealer or a
specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with
everything is pretty much a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German
cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing
breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old
BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like
a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half
decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but
any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if
they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly
printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were
helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even
duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1],
nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or
more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized
hardware and software - and it's different hardware and
software for different manufacturers. It's not longer
*possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have
the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't
support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days
won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway,
if they can get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything
now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head,
which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition
system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on
the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their
keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser
in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key,
to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition
key would work regardless of the battery status in the
remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys
cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer
them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese
car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but
if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be
more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the
sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to
duplicate. On top of the chip programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel
injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay
for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good
after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's,
because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key
security code has to be installed too. They work together.
New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another
$600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good
old car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes,
and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no
longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical
in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require
electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see
his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now,
because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17
year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with
a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My
seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in
overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own.
Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40
mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a
new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance
break, because I drive less than 5K millage!


I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern
California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for
whatever driving you do.


Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are
better cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like
one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like
both.


Like apples and oranges!


Heh.

Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are
performance cars.


That's what their advetising wants to imply, sure. My 2000 C class
was the most basic car they made, and had better performance in
every respect except mileage than any other car I've ever driven.
The supercharger helped, I suppose. The real differences are not
large, and haven't been for a lot longer than 10-15 years.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #23  
Old October 4th 17, 05:39 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I
don't think there's a mechanic at every
corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like all
electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric
cars, there will be more mechanics who can
deal with them than mechanics who know what to
do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most
of the cars on the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing
running. I talk to mechanics, even garage
owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very
expensive to buy than train employees too! One
guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate
parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more
than trivial repairs require the dealer or a
specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal
with everything is pretty much a thing of the
past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German
cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing
breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old
BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with
more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs
like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a
half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to
specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily
work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the
manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point).
Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally
necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys
for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you
even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of
thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and
software - and it's different hardware and software for
different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for
a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing
of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple
brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that
equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can
get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for
everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in
the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the
ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it.
Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based
system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was
built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted
with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The
advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The
disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over
$300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to
compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car,
and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if
you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be
more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the
sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to
duplicate. On top of the chip programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW,
fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one
on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car
ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with
newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new
computer ECU and key security code has to be installed
too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 +
flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some
times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes,
and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no
longer possible to repair it. It is 100%
electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't
even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's
started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now,
because it was far more cost effective than repairing my
17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal
with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car
does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if
it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than
I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get
over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra
expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy
a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get
insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage!

I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern
California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car
for whatever driving you do.


Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are
better cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like
one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like
both.


Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are
performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both
manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW
535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior
space.
http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...28-535i-royal-
blue-metallic-535is.jpg


....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun!

Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder
engines. But my favorite button was the one that dropped the
headrests in the back seat down, if a passenger forgot to do so.
There was a quarter second pause. Comedy is all in the timing. (The
dashboard indicator that came on when it would hold *exactly* a
gallon of windshield washer fluid was nice, too.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #24  
Old October 4th 17, 06:16 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 512
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:39:06 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I
don't think there's a mechanic at every
corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like all
electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric
cars, there will be more mechanics who can
deal with them than mechanics who know what to
do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most
of the cars on the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing
running. I talk to mechanics, even garage
owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very
expensive to buy than train employees too! One
guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate
parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more
than trivial repairs require the dealer or a
specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal
with everything is pretty much a thing of the
past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German
cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing
breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old
BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with
more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs
like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a
half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to
specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily
work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the
manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point).
Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally
necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys
for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you
even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of
thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and
software - and it's different hardware and software for
different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for
a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing
of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple
brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that
equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can
get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for
everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in
the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the
ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it.
Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based
system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was
built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted
with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The
advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The
disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over
$300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to
compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car,
and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if
you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be
more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the
sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to
duplicate. On top of the chip programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW,
fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one
on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car
ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with
newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new
computer ECU and key security code has to be installed
too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 +
flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some
times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes,
and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no
longer possible to repair it. It is 100%
electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't
even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's
started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now,
because it was far more cost effective than repairing my
17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal
with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car
does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if
it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than
I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get
over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra
expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy
a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get
insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage!

I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern
California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car
for whatever driving you do.

Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are
better cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like
one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like
both.

Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are
performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both
manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW
535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior
space.
http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...28-535i-royal-
blue-metallic-535is.jpg


....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun!

Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder
engines.


Not sure what you mean - supercharger-?
This ugly thing?
http://performancedrive.com.au/wp-co...percharger.jpg

But my favorite button was the one that dropped the
headrests in the back seat down, if a passenger forgot to do so.
There was a quarter second pause. Comedy is all in the timing. (The
dashboard indicator that came on when it would hold *exactly* a
gallon of windshield washer fluid was nice, too.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


  #25  
Old October 4th 17, 07:02 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:39:06 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust
wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM
UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I
don't think there's a mechanic at every
corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like
all electronics, these days that
essentially means board swaps). When there
are enough electric
cars, there will be more mechanics who can
deal with them than mechanics who know what
to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years
most of the cars on the road will be
electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics
and software involved to make the them thing
running. I talk to mechanics, even garage
owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very
expensive to buy than train employees too!
One guy said - he spend $30K for software to
locate parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything
more than trivial repairs require the dealer
or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can
deal with everything is pretty much a thing of
the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also.
German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing
tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even
me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with
more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs
like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a
half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to
specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily
work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and
the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that
point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not
generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate
keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor
can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or
more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized
hardware and software - and it's different hardware
and software for different manufacturers. It's not
longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize,
unless they have the backing of a dealership, and
dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most
carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to
anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can
get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different
technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip
keys" for everything now, keys that have a small
RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary
componenet to the ignition system. The engine
*can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand,
doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at
least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in
the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the
key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that
the ignition key would work regardless of the
battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is
that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and
nobody could reverse engineer them to
compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese
car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100,
but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll
probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even
touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with
more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW,
fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another
one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job,
car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that
with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new
computer ECU and key security code has to be
installed too. They work together. New computer cost
$1500 + flashing and key install another $600!
LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old
car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel
Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else
until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100%
electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It
doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine,
once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota
now, because it was far more cost effective than
repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not
inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs,
as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes
rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay
for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast
the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway.
Convenience is worth the extra expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would
buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I
get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K
millage!

I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern
California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a
car for whatever driving you do.

Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are
better cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some
like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to
like both.

Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are
performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both
manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985
BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and
interior space.
http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...w-e28-535i-roy
al- blue-metallic-535is.jpg

....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun!

Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder
engines.


Not sure what you mean - supercharger-?
This ugly thing?
http://performancedrive.com.au/wp-co...017/04/Chevrol
et-Camaro-freight-train-supercharger.jpg


In principle, yes, though this was factory installed. And fit under
the hood. That's what the "Kompressor" designation means.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #26  
Old October 4th 17, 09:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 986
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 07:26:53 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), StarDust


wrote:


With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a

mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to

repair
(although like all electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be

more
mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do
with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road

will
be electric.


Wouldn't that require electricians rather than mechanics? You don't
call a plumber to fix a problem with the electricity in your house,
do you? The same ought to apply to electric cars, just as it already
applies to electric trains and trams.
  #27  
Old October 4th 17, 09:30 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 986
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 12:28:50 -0400, Davoud wrote:
Will there be flying electric cars?


No. If it flies then it's an airplane of some kind, not a car.
  #28  
Old October 4th 17, 11:24 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 512
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:02:09 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:39:06 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust
wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7,
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM
UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I
don't think there's a mechanic at every
corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like
all electronics, these days that
essentially means board swaps). When there
are enough electric
cars, there will be more mechanics who can
deal with them than mechanics who know what
to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years
most of the cars on the road will be
electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics
and software involved to make the them thing
running. I talk to mechanics, even garage
owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very
expensive to buy than train employees too!
One guy said - he spend $30K for software to
locate parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything
more than trivial repairs require the dealer
or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can
deal with everything is pretty much a thing of
the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also.
German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing
tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even
me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with
more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs
like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a
half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to
specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily
work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and
the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that
point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not
generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate
keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor
can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or
more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized
hardware and software - and it's different hardware
and software for different manufacturers. It's not
longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize,
unless they have the backing of a dealership, and
dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most
carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to
anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can
get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different
technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip
keys" for everything now, keys that have a small
RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary
componenet to the ignition system. The engine
*can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand,
doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at
least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in
the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the
key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that
the ignition key would work regardless of the
battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is
that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and
nobody could reverse engineer them to
compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese
car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100,
but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll
probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even
touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with
more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW,
fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another
one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job,
car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that
with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new
computer ECU and key security code has to be
installed too. They work together. New computer cost
$1500 + flashing and key install another $600!
LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old
car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel
Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else
until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100%
electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It
doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine,
once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota
now, because it was far more cost effective than
repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not
inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs,
as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes
rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay
for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast
the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway.
Convenience is worth the extra expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would
buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I
get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K
millage!

I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern
California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a
car for whatever driving you do.

Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are
better cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some
like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to
like both.

Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are
performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both
manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985
BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and
interior space.
http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...w-e28-535i-roy
al- blue-metallic-535is.jpg

....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun!

Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder
engines.


Not sure what you mean - supercharger-?
This ugly thing?
http://performancedrive.com.au/wp-co...017/04/Chevrol
et-Camaro-freight-train-supercharger.jpg


In principle, yes, though this was factory installed. And fit under
the hood. That's what the "Kompressor" designation means.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


Oh, I see! I've seen -Kompressor - written on the back of Mercedes, I didn't know what means?
It's like turbo charge?
miniCooper has turbocharged models!
  #29  
Old October 4th 17, 01:18 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,915
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Chris L Peterson:
Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to
repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be
more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what
to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road
will be electric.


Paul Schlyter:
Wouldn't that require electricians rather than mechanics? You don't
call a plumber to fix a problem with the electricity in your house,
do you? The same ought to apply to electric cars, just as it already
applies to electric trains and trams.


That's a distinction without a difference. Does the world have to be
black and white? An electric vehicle is an electromechanical machine.
In the event of failure of an electric car motor the same person will
disassemble the motor (mechanical task) and repair it (possibly an
electrical task). I successfully maintained sophisticated electronic
equipment for years, but I was not an electronics technician. I knew
how to operate certain diagnostic devices and I knew how to swap
boards, and that was enough.


BTW, practically anyone who has owned a Prius or other electric or
hybrid vehicle for 11+ years as I have will tell you that mechanical
and electrical faults are quite unlikely. You'll be replacing brakes
and wiper blades, starting batteries and drive belts.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #30  
Old October 4th 17, 01:24 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,915
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Davoud:
Will there be flying electric cars?


Paul Schlyter:
No. If it flies then it's an airplane of some kind, not a car.


There you go painting things black and white again. What would it be
when it's driving down the road? You could as well say "No. If it
drives on the road then it's a car of some kind, not an airplane." To
avoid that semantic problem we have the expression "flying car."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
 




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