How would you have rolled out the disaster known as NASA's FY 11proposed budget?

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
On 08/28/2011 09:26 PM, Hop wrote:
On Aug 28, 6:59 pm, "Jorge R. wrote:
On 08/28/2011 04:37 PM, Hop wrote:

On Aug 24, 7:58 pm, Matt wrote:
On Aug 24, 4:03 pm, wrote:
Any congressman that places his bets on the Constellation racehorse
should be kicked out of office. Personally, I believe the Ares
rockets
are Alpo.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but hardly any of them did lose.

Far from crossing the finishing line, the Ares rockets collapsed after
the starting gun was fired.

Matt's referring to the Congressmen, silly.

Well then, he's beating a strawman. He was replying to my statement
"Personally, I believe the *Ares rockets*
are Alpo."

I'll bet he was replying to your statement, "Any congressman that places
his bets on the Constellation racehorse should be kicked out of office."

I sure was. And hardly any of 'em lost last year.

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
bob haller wrote:

On Aug 28, 10:00 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Aug 28, 5:37 pm, Hop wrote:
On Aug 24, 7:58 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Aug 24, 4:03 pm, Hop wrote:
Any congressman that places his bets on the Constellation
racehorse
should be kicked out of office. Personally, I believe the Ares
rockets
are Alpo.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but hardly any of them did lose.

Far from crossing the finishing line, the Ares rockets collapsed
after
the starting gun was fired.

nearly every poster here knew it was a bad design.

congress tells nasa what vehicles and contractors to use for max pork
piggie squealing

Utter bull****. Congress doesn't get to specify the contractor on any
federal contract. That includes those at NASA.

As usual, Bobbert displays his inordinate ignorance.


congress passed a law requiring nasas continued funding of ares a dead
program and directing nasa to use as much of the shuttle parts as
possible, specifically the solid boosters provided only by thikol....


Jesus, stop drinking when you post. You've gone from stupid to
stoopid.


nasa does get direction from congress


Well, no.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

NASA gets money from Congress....along with some pointers. Like being told,
despite the Administration's desire to "evaluate heavy-lift" before deciding
on a system, NASA was pointedly told by Congress, NO. Thou shalt build HLV
Now. And they're being reminded of this despite NASA's foot-dragging on
heavy-lift-because funding for HLV diverts from this Administration's
fixation with the NewSpace crowd.

In article ,
says...

bob haller wrote:

nearly every poster here knew it was a bad design.

congress tells nasa what vehicles and contractors to use for max pork
piggie squealing


Utter bull****. Congress doesn't get to specify the contractor on any
federal contract. That includes those at NASA.

As usual, Bobbert displays his inordinate ignorance.

While Bob is wrong on the specifics, certain politicians are arguing
that their experts assure them that only existing solid rocket boosters
can do the job and that NASA should not (at least immediately) look into
liquid fueled rocket boosters for shuttle derived HLV.

Here's a quote from an Aviation Week article:

Meanwhile, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) joined
a group of Republican senators, notably Orrin Hatch of Utah,
in an Aug. 2 letter to Bolden and OMB Director Jacob Lew
urging quick action on SLS. But that letter, also signed by
Republican Senators Mike Crapo and James Risch (Idaho) and
Dean Heller (Nev.), objects to the call for a propulsion
competition endorsed by Shelby and the California senators
until after initial flight testing with the solid-fuel
boosters built by ATK in Utah.

?We strongly believe conducting a competition earlier in
the development of the SLS will only create further delays
and cost overruns,? Reid and his Western Senate colleagues
wrote. ?[D]uring this period of fiscal austerity, it is
irresponsible to spend funds on the development of a new
system, such as an enhanced liquid engine, to accomplish
what is already possible through existing technology,
specifically solid rocket motors.?

Orrin Hatch (Utah - Senator) is lobbying for the status-quo so that Utah
gets to keep its solid rocket booster jobs. He's not at all interested
in the "best" design for a new HLV. If he could openly mandate the use
of ATK's SRB's, he would.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

In article ,
says...

NASA gets money from Congress....along with some pointers. Like being told,
despite the Administration's desire to "evaluate heavy-lift" before deciding
on a system, NASA was pointedly told by Congress, NO. Thou shalt build HLV
Now. And they're being reminded of this despite NASA's foot-dragging on
heavy-lift-because funding for HLV diverts from this Administration's
fixation with the NewSpace crowd.

NASA can't afford (long term) a new HLV which will suck up as much
funding as shuttle derived HLV will. It will be the shuttle program all
over again, and look what that got us. The biggest thing to come out of
the shuttle program is ISS, and it's stuck in LEO.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

On Aug 28, 8:41*pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
On 08/28/2011 09:26 PM, Hop wrote:





On Aug 28, 6:59 pm, "Jorge R. *wrote:
On 08/28/2011 04:37 PM, Hop wrote:

On Aug 24, 7:58 pm, Matt * *wrote:
On Aug 24, 4:03 pm, * *wrote:
Any congressman that places his bets on the Constellation racehorse
should be kicked out of office. Personally, I believe the Ares rockets
are Alpo.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but hardly any of them did lose.

Far from crossing the finishing line, the Ares rockets collapsed after
the starting gun was fired.

Matt's referring to the Congressmen, silly.

Well then, he's beating a strawman. He was replying to my statement
"Personally, I believe the *Ares rockets*
are Alpo."

I'll bet he was replying to your statement, "Any congressman that places
his bets on the Constellation racehorse should be kicked out of office."

So if a congressman wins an election that means he shouldn't be kicked
out of office?

Sorry, but rogues who successfully deliver pork to their consitutents
often win elections.

So instead of bursting my bubble, Matt Wiser is beating a straw man.

Constellation style HLVs are Alpo. He hasn't demonstrated otherwise.

Nor has he demonstrated pork barrel politicians shouldn't be kicked
out of office.

On Aug 28, 10:53*pm, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in messagenews:loednZqAzfDNl8bTnZ2dnUVZ5rednZ2d@gigan ews.com...
I'll bet he was replying to your statement, "Any congressman that places
his bets on the Constellation racehorse should be kicked out of office."

I sure was. And hardly any of 'em lost last year.

I made two separate separate assertions:

1) Ares rockets are Alpo
2) Pork barrel politicians should be kicked out of office.

You're splicing these together to make put a third, completely
different assertion into my mouth:

A hacked up and stitched together
1 & 2) Pork barrel politicians are Alpo.

Which is obviously untrue. Pork barrel politicians are often first to
cross the finish line.

However Wiser is refuting a statement I never made.

I'm not surprised Wiser is doing this. I am disappointed in Jorge
though.

congress reps should be limited to 2 terms and no lifetime beneies,
like free healthcare...

congress plays politics like kids on a school yard

On 08/29/2011 10:58 AM, Hop wrote:
On Aug 28, 10:53 pm, "Matt wrote:
"Jorge R. wrote in messagenews:loednZqAzfDNl8bTnZ2dnUVZ5rednZ2d@gigan ews.com...
I'll bet he was replying to your statement, "Any congressman that places
his bets on the Constellation racehorse should be kicked out of office."

I sure was. And hardly any of 'em lost last year.

I made two separate separate assertions:

1) Ares rockets are Alpo
2) Pork barrel politicians should be kicked out of office.

You're splicing these together to make put a third, completely
different assertion into my mouth:

A hacked up and stitched together
1& 2) Pork barrel politicians are Alpo.

I see no evidence of this. Matt's reply made no mention of either Ares
or Alpo. It is clear to me, from context ("Sorry to burst your bubble,
but hardly any of them did lose"), that "them" referred to "congressmen"
and that he was replying purely to 2) and not replying to 1) in any way.
And that is perfectly fine; it is not compulsory to reply to *every*
point someone makes in a post.

As far as I can tell, Matt's only sin was failing to either 1) trim his
quotes, or 2) use of a pronoun ("them") without specifying the
antecedent. Either would have been sufficient to make explicit exactly
what part of your text he was replying to. But again, from context it
was clear enough to me what he was replying to, and when Matt was asked
for clarification, he confirmed that was his intent.

I'm not surprised Wiser is doing this. I am disappointed in Jorge
though.

I'm *extremely* disappointed in you, hop. You grossly overreacted to
Matt's statement, and when called out for it by me, you proceeded to
accuse him of putting words in your mouth, even *after* Matt clarified
his intent. You're essentially calling him a liar. That's low.

On Aug 29, 5:59*pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
On 08/29/2011 10:58 AM, Hop wrote:

I see no evidence of this. Matt's reply made no mention of either Ares
or Alpo. It is clear to me, from context ("Sorry to burst your bubble,
but hardly any of them did lose"), that "them" referred to "congressmen"
and that he was replying purely to 2)

Substituting "Congressmen" for "them", the statement becomes:

"Sorry to burst your bubble, but hardly any congressmen did lose"

Who said the congressmen lost?

I said the congressmen should be thrown out of office. That is *NOT*
saying the congressmen would lose.