Fwd: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the ICARUSdetector at the CNGS beam

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7 beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

On Mar 18, 3:11*am, Sam Wormley wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the

ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7 beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino LAr-TPC events has been analysed.. *The result is compatible with the simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

They are so upset over a tiny fraction of a second yet are out an
entire rotation every year.There were once people who were aware of
the problem such as Alexsander Von Homboldt but I have yet to see
individuals raise themselves to this way of reasoning where so may
overreach with conclusions regarding Universal structure and fewer
still able to discuss it,most are simply content to enclose themselves
in gibberish or disappear altogether.



"This empiricism, the melancholy heritage transmitted to us from
former times, invariably contends for the truth of its axioms with the
arrogance of a narrowminded spirit. Physical philosophy, on the other
hand, when based upon science, doubts because it seeks to investigate,
distinguishes between that which is certain and that which is merely
probable, and strives incessantly to perfect theory by extending the
circle of observation.

"This assemblage of imperfect dogmas bequeathed by one age to another—
this physical philosophy, which is composed of popular prejudices,—is
not only injurious because it perpetuates error with the obstinacy
engendered by the evidence of ill observed facts, but also because it
hinders the mind from attaining to higher views of nature. Instead of
seeking to discover the mean or medium point, around which oscillate,
in apparent independence of forces, all the phenomena of the external
world, this system delights in multiplying exceptions to the law, and
seeks, amid phenomena and in organic forms, for something beyond the
marvel of a regular succession, and an internal and progressive
development. Ever inclined to believe that the order of nature is
disturbed, it refuses to recognise in the present any analogy with the
past, and guided by its own varying hypotheses, seeks at hazard,
either in the interior of the globe or in the regions of space, for
the cause of these pretended perturbations. It is the special object
of the present work to combat those errors which derive their source
from a vicious empiricism and from imperfect inductions."
Homboldt ,Cosmos

On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.

--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

On 3/18/12 9:20 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.



Ref:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/sc...nos-speed.html

The Icarus team confirmed that, as Einstein predicted, neutrinos travel
at the speed of light.

“I’m not displeased that Einstein was right again,” Mr. Rubbia said.

On 2012-03-18 14:32 , Sam Wormley wrote:
On 3/18/12 9:20 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.



Ref:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/sc...nos-speed.html


The Icarus team confirmed that, as Einstein predicted, neutrinos travel
at the speed of light.

“I’m not displeased that Einstein was right again,” Mr. Rubbia said.

Not the same experiment. The one with the error (Opera) will be
repeated once the instrumentation is sorted out. (I posted about that
here few weeks ago). Icarus is a different "receiver".



--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

On 3/18/12 2:25 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-03-18 14:32 , Sam Wormley wrote:
On 3/18/12 9:20 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.



Ref:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/sc...nos-speed.html



The Icarus team confirmed that, as Einstein predicted, neutrinos travel
at the speed of light.

“I’m not displeased that Einstein was right again,” Mr. Rubbia said.

Not the same experiment. The one with the error (Opera) will be repeated
once the instrumentation is sorted out. (I posted about that here few
weeks ago). Icarus is a different "receiver".




Thanks Alan.
-Sam

Alan Browne wrote:

On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.

Yawn again.
And of course nobody has any idea at all
of what the results are going to be,

Jan

On Mar 18, 6:32*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 3/18/12 9:20 AM, Alan Browne wrote:









On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam Wormley
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns..
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.

* *Ref:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/sc...ed-right-in-re...

The Icarus team confirmed that, as Einstein predicted, neutrinos travel
at the speed of light.

“I’m not displeased that Einstein was right again,” Mr. Rubbia said..

If the wider world only knew !.

Beautiful evening here,4 objects visible in the celestial arena this
evening,Jupiter has moved to the right of Venus mainly due to the
motion of the Earth and Venus coming around in its circuit ,there is
Mars still traveling 'backwards' against the background stars for the
next 3 weeks as the Earth overtakes it and there is the star Sirius
which affirms that the Earth turns 1461 times in 4 orbital circuits.

Remember Sam when you believe in 366 1/4 rotations per orbital circuit
like the unfortunate Browne here,you can forget about relativity being
right or wrong,because being out by close to 86 400 seconds
corresponding to one rotation of the planet is remarkable for any era
and any society,this is not something you can bury and who would want
to anyway.

The team shouldn't have been called 'Icarus' who flew too close to the
Sun and feel to Earth,it should have been called the 'Phaeton' team
given that empiricists burn heaven and Earth to get what they want !.

On 2012-03-18 15:30 , J. J. Lodder wrote:
Alan wrote:

On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.

Yawn again.
And of course nobody has any idea at all
of what the results are going to be,

Since this is so boring for you why don't you run along and find
something more interesting.


--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

Alan Browne wrote:

On 2012-03-18 15:30 , J. J. Lodder wrote:
Alan wrote:

On 2012-03-17 23:11 , Sam Wormley wrote:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [1203.3433] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the
ICARUS detector at the CNGS beam
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:10:21 -0500
From: Sam
Newsgroups: sci.physics

http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.3433

The CERN-SPS accelerator has been briefly operated in a new, lower
intensity neutrino mode with ~10^12 p.o.t. /pulse and with a beam
structure made of four LHC-like extractions, each with a narrow width
of ~3 ns, separated by 524 ns. This very tightly bunched beam
structure represents a substantial progress with respect to the
ordinary operation of the CNGS beam, since it allows a very accurate
time-of-flight measurement of neutrinos from CERN to LNGS on an
event-to-event basis. The ICARUS T600 detector has collected 7
beam-associated events, consistent with the CNGS delivered neutrino
flux of 2.2 10^16 p.o.t. and in agreement with the well known
characteristics of neutrino events in the LAr-TPC. The time of flight
difference between the speed of light and the arriving neutrino
LAr-TPC events has been analysed. *The result is compatible with the
simultaneous arrival of all events with equal speed, the one of
light*. This is in a striking difference with the reported result of
OPERA

[1] that claimed that high energy neutrinos from CERN should arrive at
LNGS about 60 ns earlier than expected from luminal speed.

A week or so ago there was press about instrumentation issues at the
receiver end (of the Sept. experiment) that could account for the 60 ns.
The experiments will be repeated with corrected instrumentation in the
coming weeks or months.

Yawn again.
And of course nobody has any idea at all
of what the results are going to be,

Since this is so boring for you why don't you run along and find
something more interesting.

It's always nice to see how competent
experimentalists are at measuring things,
especially when they know the answer,

Jan