Space station goes to Plan B for oxygen

One of the articles I read, said something about overheating a battery
on Genesis just after launch. Possibly during onorbit checkout???
Maybe it was the capsule's battery that they were talking about???

I couldn't tell whether the battery thing was actually a likely cause
for the Genesis parachute problem or just a speculation only because
there happened to be new releases on it.

Here's the information that I saw on the battery:

Soon after Genesis was launched in August 2001, engineers noticed
potential problems with a battery in the probe's sample return
canister. The canister crashed today in the Utah desert when it's
stabilizing parachute failed to deploy. The cause of the mishap is not
yet known and it may have nothing to do with the battery problem noted
early in the mission. But for the record, here is part of a November
15, 2001, news release from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory that
addressed the issue:

Project managers are monitoring the temperature of the battery
inside Genesis' sample return capsule to make sure that
long-term heating does not impair its performance when the
capsule returns to Earth in September 2004. Although the
battery is likely to become hotter than originally expected,
the flight team has a number of options for managing the
battery's temperature, and they do not expect the issue to
affect the mission.

The mission's science requirements call for 22 months of solar
wind particle collection. "In our current plan Genesis will
meet and exceed that goal, collecting up to 26 months' worth
of solar wind particles," said Chet Sasaki, Genesis project
manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

The temperature of the lithium-dioxide battery is currently at
23 degrees Celsius (73 degrees Fahrenheit), within the range
anticipated by spacecraft designers. A radiator device
intended to shield the battery is not working as well as
expected, however, and the battery is likely to heat up to 42
degrees Celsius (108 degrees Fahrenheit). Mission managers
consider this temperature to be within acceptable limits. They
note that similar batteries have been maintained at 60 degrees
Celsius (140 degrees Fahrenheit) for 15 months without
impairing their performance. Ground tests are being conducted
on lithium batteries to measure their durability at various
temperatures.

The Genesis project team has been attempting to bake potential
contaminants off the battery's radiator by heating the
area. They are doing this with the spacecraft's sample return
backshell opened just enough to allow gas trapped inside the
capsule to escape, while still avoiding exposure to the Sun.

http://spaceflightnow.com/genesis/status.html

John Doe wrote in message ...
You have to consider what the gas analyzer is used for, and what the impact of
its non-use is on the total unit. It is not right to cry foul or accuse the
station management of being careless for allowing Elektron to be operated in
supervised fashion in this config.

Look at the 'ATMOSPHERE REVITALIZATION SUBSYSTEM' pdf found he
http://www.spaceref.com/iss/ops/sm.life.support.book2.pdf
The gas analyzer is responsible for detecting
O2 in H2 - gas analyzer sensor for O2 in H2 (activation threshold 15
mmHg)
H2 in O2 - gas analyzer sensor for H2 in O2 (activation threshold is
2%)
H2 in air - gas analyzer sensor for H2 in air (activation threshold is
2%)

Note that all of those conditions are potentially hazardous. H2 can
combust over an *extremely* broad range of mixtures, compared to most
other fuels.

And FWIW, I *explicitly stated* that I wasn't accusing the station
management of being careless. I am not in a position to know that, one
way or the other. I'm sure that crew safety is a high priority. I was
only pointing that the assumption that it was obviously safe was not
justified.

It is just a failed part of Elektron, not the whole unit. They've already
taken the deffective one out. They only need to bring te failed one back down
and a working one back up.

The failed part of #7 is apparently the 'liquid unit'. That is the big
part. The gas analyzer (also failed) might be returnable, although it
looks like sending up a new mounting plate may be sufficient for that.
See the status report for 9/14:
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=13960


It is not clear that the capability exists on the ground to repair it,
given that there are no spares and the company which produced them is
gone.

Can this be backed with hard facts, or is that just some more "scary tactics"
to generate ratings in media outlets ? And which company did make the Elektron
and when did they cease to exist ? Or were they merged/purchased by some other
company which still exists and still has full capability to fix Elektron ?

Given that it has been publicly stated this is the last unit (I'm
pretty sure this was in one of the status reports), and they didn't
send any spares up (except for the new external pumps for unit #5.
Pumps are a simple enough item that they need not be Elektron
specific.) on the last progress, despite knowing that #7 was having
serious trouble, it seems pretty likely to be true.

If the company no longer exists, where do the engineers in charge of Elektron
come from ? I have heard comm between Moscow and ISS where they called the
Elektron engineers in and those engineers then talked to the crew.
A good question. However, it is quite possible there are still people
knowledgeable about the systems, who do not have access to the tooling
to actually build the things. These might be people who worked for the
company that built them, or might be the people responsible for ECLS
in the Russian side. Just because they know the system doesn't mean
they have the capability to build the hardware.

I don't know what JimOs sources are, and I might quibble with his tone
or conclusions, but I doubt he is outright fabricating stuff.

John Doe wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:
can easily pass judgement. The judgement, backed up by facts, is that
the O2 generation capacity is lower and less reliable than planned.

Nobody is debating this. The debate is whether the current status of Elektron
warrants not sending the replacement crew which was the original statement.

No, that's you attempting to end and shift the debate.

O2 supply is not at jeoperdy. And if the patched up Elektron won't work for
long, then they just live on progress and candles until a replacement part is flown.

The O2 supply is in grave jeopardy. Elektron is operating well below
what it is specified to, which means that emergency supplies have to
be dipped into. Those supplies will have to be replenished at some
point, bumping other things to later flights.

There is no big deal, no big sensationalistic news, no scary movie to be
written about this. I don't see what the big fuss is all about.

You don't see it because you refuse to see it.

If the crews are not comfortable with the current elektron, they can just
leave it off and request that candles and progress O2 be used instead.

No, they cannot simply do that any more than you can write a $100
check on a bank account with $99.00 in it.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:38:52 GMT, (Derek Lyons)
wrote:

George R. Kasica wrote:

This is a minor nit to pick, but Hydrogen doesn't do the Donald Duck
thing, that's helium. Somewhat more problematic is that hydrogen is
totally odorless & colorless you don't know its there until you either
pass out from lack of O2 or it goes BOOM! I'm unfortunately guessing
#2 would occur long before #1. Can you say Hindenberg?

As a point of information: The US Submarine Service has more ways
onboard to detect and remove H2 than it does any other gas.

D.
Craig & D.:

Interesting facts, OK, I learned something. Thanks. (Though I should
have thought of the US Subs).

George

===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766
President +1 206 374 6482 FAX
Netwrx Consulting Inc. Jackson, WI USA
http://www.netwrx1.com

ICQ #12862186

The O2 supply is in grave jeopardy.

Yah and not long ago a progress was de orbited with over half full oxygen
tanks.

poor planning... espically with the shuttle grounded
HAVE A GREAT DAY!

"John Doe" wrote in message ...
Derek Lyons wrote:
untested configuration. The key question is whether it will function
well enough in the next three weeks to provide adequate confidence to
launch the station's next crew.

Wow. Oberg's sensationalistic MSNBC article makes it sound like re-using a
spare part is such a dangerous situation.

Progress' O2 is released manually. No automatic thing there. So operating
Elektron manually should also be a no brainer.

To be fair, operating a valve that allows O2 to flow out of a tank is far
easier than what goes on inside an Elektron...

The Russians are clearly making progress with debugging and fixing this
latest set of Elektron problems, but aren't completely out of the woods yet.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

"rk" wrote in message
...
John Doe wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:
untested configuration. The key question is whether it will function
well enough in the next three weeks to provide adequate confidence to
launch the station's next crew.

Wow. Oberg's sensationalistic MSNBC article makes it sound like re-using
a spare part is such a dangerous situation.

Actually I didn't find it sensationalistic but instead found it
informative.

You call it using a spare part. JimO called it an "untested
configuration."
Has that configuration been thoroughly tested before? What are the
details,
please?

The latest ISS Status Report (from NASA) said:

The Elektron is operating without a gas analyzer that was
removed during troubleshooting. The absence of the gas
analyzer does not affect the Elekron's ability to generate
oxygen, although it may mean the crew will be required to
more closely monitor the unit's operations. Ground
controllers requested the Elektron be turned off before
the crew goes to sleep tonight to allow data gathered
during its operations to be evaluated.

One has to wonder what can happen to an Elektron that is missing its "oxygen
analyzer". If problems do arise, and the unit keeps running due to the
missing unit, what could happen?

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
George R. Kasica wrote:

This is a minor nit to pick, but Hydrogen doesn't do the Donald Duck
thing, that's helium. Somewhat more problematic is that hydrogen is
totally odorless & colorless you don't know its there until you either
pass out from lack of O2 or it goes BOOM! I'm unfortunately guessing
#2 would occur long before #1. Can you say Hindenberg?

As a point of information: The US Submarine Service has more ways
onboard to detect and remove H2 than it does any other gas.

If H2 starts finding its way into the ISS atmosphere due to a malfunctioning
Electron (since the gas analyzer is currently removed), this would clearly
be a very bad thing.

In chemistry class, the professor showed everyone how H2 burns (he lit a
party balloon filled with H2). It burned with a bright flame, but wasn't
very loud. This was the Hindenberg.

Then he showed how H2 mixed with O2 acts under the same situation (again
with the party balloon, but with him very far away from the balloon this
time). The balloon exploded with a very loud report and a bright flash.
This would be ISS (or a submarine) if you get too much H2 in the atmosphere.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

Craig Fink wrote in message ...
Too bad they didn't implement ISS flight rule #2003.04.20.2

In emergency situation, plant all the seeds onboard immediately. At
least the ones that scrub C02 and produce oxygen.

A nice big garden would come in handy right about now.

Craig Fink
Badnarik for President


Umm, yes. I think we need to find out how many alfalfa sprouts are
needed to maintain O2/CO2 levels appropriately for for 2 human adult
males, and if they can fit into the space available on ISS. It could
be that even using wet-paper towel "soil", we're limited to the amount
that barely fluffs up the evening salad.

/dps

Derek Lyons wrote:
The O2 supply is in grave jeopardy. Elektron is operating well below
what it is specified to, which means that emergency supplies have to
be dipped into. Those supplies will have to be replenished at some
point, bumping other things to later flights.

You like to make things far more sensationlaistic than necessary.

Even with a 3 man crew, Elektron was not operating at full capacity. (and one
probably doesn't want to operating it at full capacity all of the time anyways).

Secondly, because the candles have expiration dates, they must either be used
or discarded and replaced. Either way, they entually go down in a progress
(empty or charged), and new ones brought up.

Progress O2 is always discharged into station before Progress undocks,
allowing some "rest time" for Elektron even when it is fully functional.

So I really do not see what the big fuss is all about.

No, they cannot simply do that any more than you can write a $100
check on a bank account with $99.00 in it.

Yes they can. The crew do have a fair amount of power over such decisions. But
if ground convinces them that it is safe to operate during the day, then they
feel OK with it.

Remember that they do have experience and statistics on how often the gas
analyzer would have decected presence of H2 in the wrong place. If the answer
is "often" then perhaps operating it now might not be a good idea. But if the
answer is "never" or "only happened once after a ship docked (causing a bump
on the station), then they woudl be pretty confident that operating it would
be safe.

Remember that they do have gas analisers for cabin air. So if there is any
abnormal presence of H2, that will be detected and they can then stop
Elektron. The question should then be: at the level where an alarm would be
rung, would the concentration of H2 be sufficient to cause a REAL risk of
explosion ?