Space station goes to Plan B for oxygen

JimO is travelling and cannot acess USNET, he sent me the following to
post:

Space station goes to Plan B for oxygen
Crew not in imminent danger, but safety margin narrows
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6031881/

By James Oberg, NBC News space analyst // Special to MSNBC
Updated: 10:01 p.m. ET Sept. 17, 2004
HOUSTON - Crew members on the international space station have
ended their 10-day effort to repair a failed oxygen-generating unit,
and in its place they have installed a jury-rigged unit that
previously failed. If it also fails, the station would have only 90
days of stored oxygen on board — and the outpost might have to be shut
down. New hardware won't be available until the spring of 2005.
NASA's weekly status report on the space station, released late
Friday, described how the newest device — Unit No. 7, in Russian
parlance — was replaced by an older one that the crew had "refurbished
last week using spare components." This device is referred to as Unit
No. 5.
After the replacement, the crew briefly powered up the Russian-made
Elektron oxygen generator, and then turned it off before they went to
sleep. The device lacks the automatic monitoring and safety features
required for continuous untended operations.
The status report cast the development in a positive light, saying
that "almost two weeks of troubleshooting is paying off."
The refurbished Elektron is now the only working apparatus of its
kind aboard the station, assembled from different components in an
untested configuration. The key question is whether it will function
well enough in the next three weeks to provide adequate confidence to
launch the station's next crew.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

By James Oberg, NBC News space analyst // Special to MSNBC
Updated: 10:01 p.m. ET Sept. 17, 2004
HOUSTON - Crew members on the international space station have
ended their 10-day effort to repair a failed oxygen-generating unit,
and in its place they have installed a jury-rigged unit that
previously failed. If it also fails, the station would have only 90
days of stored oxygen on board — and the outpost might have to be shut
down. New hardware won't be available until the spring of 2005.
NASA's weekly status report on the space station, released late
Friday, described how the newest device — Unit No. 7, in Russian
parlance — was replaced by an older one that the crew had "refurbished
last week using spare components." This device is referred to as Unit
No. 5.
After the replacement, the crew briefly powered up the Russian-made
Elektron oxygen generator, and then turned it off before they went to
sleep. The device lacks the automatic monitoring and safety features
required for continuous untended operations.
The status report cast the development in a positive light, saying
that "almost two weeks of troubleshooting is paying off."
The refurbished Elektron is now the only working apparatus of its
kind aboard the station, assembled from different components in an
untested configuration. The key question is whether it will function
well enough in the next three weeks to provide adequate confidence to
launch the station's next crew.

D.
--

Personally I hope it quits entirely and the station is abandoned. With any luck
control will be lost permanetely and we can kill both ISS and shuttle in one
move.

Whatever replaces it will be better.

Hopefully a manned replacement capsule system and a strong robotic program.

The present ISS Shuttle is a complete waste of time and money and will
certinally get more crew dead...

Better it end now and we move on.

Better space uses for the money, whioch would remain in nasa but just
reallocated
HAVE A GREAT DAY!

Derek Lyons wrote:
untested configuration. The key question is whether it will function
well enough in the next three weeks to provide adequate confidence to
launch the station's next crew.

Wow. Oberg's sensationalistic MSNBC article makes it sound like re-using a
spare part is such a dangerous situation.

Progress' O2 is released manually. No automatic thing there. So operating
Elektron manually should also be a no brainer.

In terms of whether to send another crew or not, I find this discussion
totally ludicrous.

If you don't send a crew up, then the chances of replacing components in
Elektron to bring it to to 100% functionlaity are an absolute 0 since there
will be nobody to fix it.

Worse case scenario: current expedition swap occurs on time, the returning
crew bring the failed component back with them. Failed component is repaired
on earth and sent back up on the next progress. So with a totally failed
elektron, the current crew need only have sufficient Progress O2 and candles
to last until the next progress. And there is always the Quest oxygen and
nitrogen if the situation gets desperate enough that the USA becomes willing
to use its precious little cargo.

What are the odds of a Quest based EVA between now and shuttle's return ?

Too bad they didn't implement ISS flight rule #2003.04.20.2

In emergency situation, plant all the seeds onboard immediately. At
least the ones that scrub C02 and produce oxygen.

A nice big garden would come in handy right about now.

Craig Fink
Badnarik for President

John Doe wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:
untested configuration. The key question is whether it will function
well enough in the next three weeks to provide adequate confidence to
launch the station's next crew.

Wow. Oberg's sensationalistic MSNBC article makes it sound like re-using a
spare part is such a dangerous situation.

Wow. He makes it sound that way because it *is* that way. They
replaced on unit in very bad condition, with another unit merely in
bad condition.

Progress' O2 is released manually. No automatic thing there. So operating
Elektron manually should also be a no brainer.

ROTFLMAO. There's a heap of difference between simply letting a valve
vent O2, and a complex system like Elektron.

In terms of whether to send another crew or not, I find this discussion
totally ludicrous.

Only because you utterly lack a clue.

Worse case scenario: current expedition swap occurs on time, the returning
crew bring the failed component back with them. Failed component is repaired
on earth and sent back up on the next progress. So with a totally failed
elektron, the current crew need only have sufficient Progress O2 and candles
to last until the next progress. And there is always the Quest oxygen and
nitrogen if the situation gets desperate enough that the USA becomes willing
to use its precious little cargo.

So what spare parts and food do you give up to ship O2 for Quest?

What are the odds of a Quest based EVA between now and shuttle's return ?

That's not the real problem. The real problem is that if you have to
replenish Quest off-schedule, then something has to be bumped from the
replenishment flight.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

John Doe wrote in message ...
Wow. Oberg's sensationalistic MSNBC article makes it sound like re-using a
spare part is such a dangerous situation.

Using the device without a gas analyzer sounds risky. MCC-M appears to
agree, given that the unit will only be allowed to run when the crew
is awake. This is not merely re-using a spare part, it is using a
modified part in an untested configuration. (we know they didn't test
it on the ground, because they don't have any more Elektrons on the
ground...)
Progress' O2 is released manually. No automatic thing there. So operating
Elektron manually should also be a no brainer.

A system combining high voltage, hydrogen, oxygen, access to vacuum,
and various reactive chemicals is in no way comparable to releasing
compressed oxygen from a tank. Elektron failure has the potential for
fire, explosion or venting station atmosphere into space. Note, I'm
not saying that the current configuration has those risks. That is
something I don't know enough about the details judge. All I'm saying
is that the system clearly has the *potential* to present those risks.


Worse case scenario: current expedition swap occurs on time, the returning
crew bring the failed component back with them.
That is likely not possible. The elektron is large and massive, and
Soyuz return capacity is extremely limited. It *might* be possible if
only two persons were launched on the next Soyuz, leaving the third
seat on the returning one available. Even that is questionable, look
at the picture in the article. (I wonder if they brought back any of
the previous failed elektrons on the shuttle ?)

Failed component is repaired on earth and sent back up on the next progress.
It is not clear that the capability exists on the ground to repair it,
given that there are no spares and the company which produced them is
gone.

Derek Lyons wrote:
Wow. He makes it sound that way because it *is* that way. They
replaced on unit in very bad condition, with another unit merely in
bad condition.

How do you know this ?

The way I read the more official nasa text, the replacement part had a failed
analyzer, but the parts needed to gennerate O2 was working. The failed
analyzer means that the whole unit cannot operate in fully automatic mode,
hence the request that the crew shut it down before going to sleep.


ROTFLMAO. There's a heap of difference between simply letting a valve
vent O2, and a complex system like Elektron.

No. In both cases, they require manual activation. In the past, Elektron has
*some* automation, not it looks like it doesn't, so it is at the same level of
automation as the "simple" O2 valve to release Progress O2.


That's not the real problem. The real problem is that if you have to
replenish Quest off-schedule, then something has to be bumped from the
replenishment flight.

Right now, Quest CANNOT be replenished. Period. Only shuttle can replenish it.
Quest is replenished from the Shuttle's own O2 and N2 tanks through piping
between PMA2 and Quest and by using Quest's high pressure pumps to suck the
stuff from shuttle and pump it at much higher pressure into the tanks.

Quest's O2, according to the 1997 ISS public plan, was to be the primary
source of O2 on the US segment until the US O2 generators are installed (very
late in assembly sequence). So shuttle plans already called for regular
refilling of the tanks.

Only one Elektron was sent to the ISS. So the spare parts they refurbished
were designed for the same elektron. The spare parts they have on Alpha didn't
come from Mir.

Until you knwo the exact failure that prompted the removal of the part which
was refurbished onn orbit and put back into service, then you cannot pass
judgement on the reliability of the O2 generation. It could be that only teh
gas analizer was unreliable and the O2 producer was OK.

Fact is that the station is not in jeoperdy. Oxygen capacity is not an issue,
and Elektron has bene repaired enough to generate some O2.

The only question left is when a fully functioning part will be sent up to the station.

hop wrote:
Using the device without a gas analyzer sounds risky. MCC-M appears to
agree, given that the unit will only be allowed to run when the crew
is awake.

Which is natural since in its current state, Elektron lacks the analyzer which
gave ground its "eyes" on Elektron through telemetry and which provide shut
off automation. So you want the unit to operate only where folks are awake. I
don't see what the big deal is. Just because it isn't fully functional doesn't
mean it is dangerous situation.

This is not merely re-using a spare part, it is using a
modified part in an untested configuration.

Humm, let me see. That part used to be in Elektron. It was removed due to
problem, repaired enough to be put back in service, albeit not 100%
functional. This isn't a part that came from an alien ship in orbit and
transfered to Alpha by transporter.

So, now they are operating the unit without a gas analizer, which is probably
the "untested config". But that doesn't mean that the rest of the unit is a
dangerous or that supervised operation is risky.

compressed oxygen from a tank. Elektron failure has the potential for
fire, explosion or venting station atmosphere into space.

You have to consider what the gas analyzer is used for, and what the impact of
its non-use is on the total unit. It is not right to cry foul or accuse the
station management of being careless for allowing Elektron to be operated in
supervised fashion in this config.

That is likely not possible. The elektron is large and massive, and
Soyuz return capacity is extremely limited.

It is just a failed part of Elektron, not the whole unit. They've already
taken the deffective one out. They only need to bring te failed one back down
and a working one back up.

It is not clear that the capability exists on the ground to repair it,
given that there are no spares and the company which produced them is
gone.

Can this be backed with hard facts, or is that just some more "scary tactics"
to generate ratings in media outlets ? And which company did make the Elektron
and when did they cease to exist ? Or were they merged/purchased by some other
company which still exists and still has full capability to fix Elektron ?

Because Rockwell no longer exists, does this mean that NASA is incapable of
fixing Shuttle parts or making new tiles or bending some aluminium or asking
Boeing or anyone else to do the work ?

If the company no longer exists, where do the engineers in charge of Elektron
come from ? I have heard comm between Moscow and ISS where they called the
Elektron engineers in and those engineers then talked to the crew.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:45:44 -0700, hop wrote:


A system combining high voltage, hydrogen, oxygen, access to vacuum, and
various reactive chemicals is in no way comparable to releasing
compressed oxygen from a tank. Elektron failure has the potential for
fire, explosion or venting station atmosphere into space. Note, I'm not
saying that the current configuration has those risks. That is something
I don't know enough about the details judge. All I'm saying is that the
system clearly has the *potential* to present those risks.





Yeah, I agree.

One of the articles said that a common failure mode was that a tube
(?vent?) becomes clogged with crystals. That's what the Russian was
cleaning out earlier this month. Clogged line, increased pressure on the
hydrogen side and a corresponding increase on the oxygen side. Running it
without the gas analyzer. No way to know if the hydrogen and oxygen are
mixing within the unit. The unit is producing hydrogen and oxygen at just
the right ratio to make water. Sounds like the perfect ratio, if mixed, to
produce an explosion.

Last year, didn't the US have some atmosphere monitoring equipment fail?
Is there any way to determine the hydrogen content of the atmosphere in
the space station? That is besides someone noticing the astronauts are
beginning to sound like Donald Duck?

Hydrogen would be much safer on Earth. Since the gas is so light weight,
it floats rapidly and would quickly disperse into the atmosphere. Is this
true on the space station? Probably not. The buoyancy of the hydrogen will
not help in the mixing. Is it possible to have a cloud of hydrogen
floating around looking for an ignition source? Maybe.

A garden sounds much safer.

Craig Fink
Badnarik for President(www.badnarik.org)

A system combining high voltage, hydrogen, oxygen, access to vacuum, and
various reactive chemicals is in no way comparable to releasing
compressed oxygen from a tank. Elektron failure has the potential for

Face facts, ISS is operating on a wing and a prayer, when the bad day comes I
just hope no one is killed or injured. The next safety board will use iSS as a
example of how NOT to run a program.

On so close the columbia tradgery NASA might be totally discredited. Public
opinion might kill manned space altogether....

Yeah sure have a trillion dollar station with inadquate spare parts and no fast
to orbit capacity, no spare soyuz protons, no spare nothing, that puts the crew
at risk.

Just evacuate the derelict, we now know what NOT to build the next time!!!!!!!!
HAVE A GREAT DAY!