With NASA of Today How long Would it Take To Go To TheMoon?

Paul Lawler wrote:


On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:18:59 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:



On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 06:06:40 GMT
Paul Lawler wrote:




"Wally Anglesea" wrote:



One thing those who claim NASA is hiding alien structures

(including

hoaxland for instance) etc fail to recognise is that if there
really was a sphinx on the Moon, or a face on Mars, NASA would have
all the budget it ever wanted, and then some.
When you realise that, anything proponents of alien structures say
falls apart and they are reduced to performing mental gymnastics in
order to maintain the belief.

Yes... you make an excellent point. There's no question but that

justas in advertising, sex sells, so in NASA funding little green
mensell. NASA has every imaginable reason for proving Hoagland
et.al.correct, and no valid reason whatsoever to hide such a
discovery. Andno, MS, the idea that they have been "told to shup
up" is NOT a validreason, if it is so trivial to discover that
Hoagland can do iteasily, then scientists outside of the alleged
"gag order" would beshouting this from the rooftops.


And of course they fail to realise the most simplistic of all, which
is that human nature is such that you could never keep it secret, so
many people at NASA and other organisations would now all this and
to claim that ALL of them would not say something and release any
evidence is frankly stretching things too far. If it were true it
would have got out by now. The fact it hasn't says it all. The same
with UFO's.


No, no one keeps their mouth shut in the military when told to because

the truth is far more important than your loosing your job or your
life.
c'mon....human nature has proven that it will destroy you for going
against the mainstream or 'rocking the boat' as others suggest.


If one were talking of a small group of people then yes it would be
a simple matter to make it clear that if anyone speaks out they will
get an early morning call and have their kneecaps interfered with
or even worse. If anyone leaked then the suspects are easily known and
traceable.

But we are not talking of a small group of people are we, we are

talking

of thousands of people worldwide who would have to all keep their

mouths

shut. Now if someone leaked, the authorities would have no real chance
of finding the leaker.

Thousands of people worldwide have seen UFO's and do not keep their
mouths shut - but they aren't talking in official capacities neither.


Please rephrase. This would be correctly stated as "thousands of people
worldwide have "CLAIMED" to have seen UFOs. There is no physical
evidence for UFOs (which you still have not defined, btw).


I notice that you Usenet sociopaths never tell off people like Wally for
harassment. I wonder why that is? If I am such a crackpot as he
suggests, then just ignore me. Afraid I might get some attention from
people that are new to astronomy? Is that what provokes you and him to
'gang up' on my posts? No doubt it is.




(For example we have eyewitness testimony from police officers

worldwide

- but they don't speak for the polic forces official position. We also
have testimony from astronomers - but not in any official capacity.
Their career is incidental to the sightings and information about those
sightings) But that isn't the problem, the problem is with the nut
cases of astronomy and 'science' and the media (and the governments
silence on the issue) proclaiming it all hoaxes, or blurred pictures
(they obviously don't look at the non blurry ones) or mass hysteria,
etc. They only prove that mankind is still in the dark ages where
excommunication and denouncements still exist for what are plainly
obvious facts.


Obvious to whom? Eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable.

So much for scientific observation in the scientific method.




Recent scientific surveys taken show that over 2/3rds of the US
population believe that UFO's are real.


So what? Since when do people's "beliefs" constitute physical evidence?


So what? Your observation here is unreliable.




Another factor is the religious implications of UFO's and that
is hardly dealt with in discussion forums such as this.


Agreed... this is not a forum to discuss faith or religion.


That wasn't my point, but again believe what ever you like, since you
already proved that you 'fill in the blanks' where none exists.

Paul Lawler wrote:

Mad Scientist wrote in
e.rogers.com:

What a loon. His logic is surely mad on this one. The reasons NASA
got the billions to go to the Moon was in part to demonstrate
'ownership of the moon' and in sense 'win' the space race. But the
story doesn't end there because they didn't win anything. The
Russians beat them to space with the launch of Sputnik, so anyone who
says they 'won' is attempting to change history.


Don't tell that to owners of the horse who wone the Belmont Stakes in the
backstretch. They might get upset at learning they have to give the prize
money back because they weren't ahead in the beginning.

Sorry. He is neither a loon nor mad by advancing this argument. By
international treaty (to which the U.S. is a signator), there is no
"ownership of the moon.

Then why put a flag up there, if not to 'rub it in every countries face'
that America is 'superior'? Who cares about treaties, they are broken
all the time by the signatories.

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:10:57 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:


On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:46:47 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:



On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:18:59 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:




Ray Vingnutte wrote:




On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 06:06:40 GMT
Paul Lawler wrote:





"Wally Anglesea"

wrote:


One thing those who claim NASA is hiding alien structures

(including

hoaxland for instance) etc fail to recognise is that if there
really was a sphinx on the Moon, or a face on Mars, NASA would

haveall the budget it ever wanted, and then some.


When you realise that, anything proponents of alien structures

sayfalls apart and they are reduced to performing mental
gymnastics inorder to maintain the belief.


Yes... you make an excellent point. There's no question but

that

justas in advertising, sex sells, so in NASA funding little

greenmensell. NASA has every imaginable reason for proving
Hoaglandet.al.correct, and no valid reason whatsoever to hide
such adiscovery. Andno, MS, the idea that they have been "told
to shupup" is NOT a validreason, if it is so trivial to discover
thatHoagland can do iteasily, then scientists outside of the
alleged"gag order" would beshouting this from the rooftops.


And of course they fail to realise the most simplistic of all,

whichis that human nature is such that you could never keep it
secret, somany people at NASA and other organisations would now

allthis andto claim that ALL of them would not say something and

release anyevidence is frankly stretching things too far. If it
were true itwould have got out by now. The fact it hasn't says it
all. The samewith UFO's.


No, no one keeps their mouth shut in the military when told to

because

the truth is far more important than your loosing your job or your
life.
c'mon....human nature has proven that it will destroy you for

going against the mainstream or 'rocking the boat' as others
suggest.


If one were talking of a small group of people then yes it would be
a simple matter to make it clear that if anyone speaks out they

willget an early morning call and have their kneecaps interfered
withor even worse. If anyone leaked then the suspects are easily
knownand traceable.

But we are not talking of a small group of people are we, we are
talking of thousands of people worldwide who would have to all keep
their mouths shut. Now if someone leaked, the authorities would

haveno real chance of finding the leaker.

Thousands of people worldwide have seen UFO's and do not keep their
mouths shut - but they aren't talking in official capacities

neither. (For example we have eyewitness testimony from police
officersworldwide - but they don't speak for the polic forces
officialposition. We also have testimony from astronomers - but not
in anyofficial capacity. Their career is incidental to the sightings
andinformation about those sightings) But that isn't the problem,
theproblem is with the nut cases of astronomy and 'science' and the
media(and the governments silence on the issue) proclaiming it all
hoaxes,or blurred pictures (they obviously don't look at the non
blurry ones)or mass hysteria, etc. They only prove that mankind is
still in thedark ages where excommunication and denouncements still
exist for whatare plainly obvious facts.

Recent scientific surveys taken show that over 2/3rds of the US
population believe that UFO's are real. Yet the 'scientific' bodies
act as though they have their heads in the sands. The same survey
also suggested that 90% of the American public believes the

governmentis hiding the truth and deceiving the public about UFO's
and Extraterrestrials. But scientists are not persuaded by public
opinion

(if they were, they never would have detonated nuclear bombs all

over the place), but they are persuaded by gag orders from the
government when it deals with national security, and UFO's appearing
oversenstive military installations IS a security issue as far as

governments are concerned.

Another factor is the religious implications of UFO's and that is
hardly dealt with in discussion forums such as this.


As I said in another post, there are accounts from highly trained
people such as airline pilots and police officers etc that I
believe cannot be so easily dismissed. Even so, without hard
evidence available, it is one giant leap to suppose that what
was observed must be alien craft. They may well be alien craft
but the problem is you and I and everyone else must keep an open
mind until irrefutable evidence comes to light.


And none of those sightings are reported in official capacity either.

Astronaut Gordon Cooper said on numerous occasions that he witnessed
UFO's which were alien spacecraft because they flew in violation of
known laws of physics, were obviously craft of some sort not known to
exist in the world and his testimony was outside official Air Force
capacity. Thus the Air Force does not endorse his statements when
they should, shouldn't they? After all he saw these objects before he
went to the moon and the objects in question flew higher than any
known spacecraft at that time.


I believe it is wrong to dismiss outright, but I also believe
it is wrong to accept blindly without evidence. Sadly in the case
of alien craft the evidence is pretty weak to say the least and
I think saying that is being generous to those who blindly believe
in alien craft.

Well this is just another put down against Ufologists.



The fact remains there is no hard evidence, believe me, if evidence
is ever found or produced it will be all over the news channels so
much so that no one will miss it.



There is hard evidence in the form of clear cut video footage and (now

mountains of video footage exists) and metal samples which have been
shown at worldwide UFO conferences and the metal was analysed by
scientific teams and the conclusion drawn declared the metal to be
composed of material not found on earth.

Plus there are a number of countries who have 'beat the Americans' and

come forward, ending the silence and ridicule by stating in no
uncertain terms that UFO's (meaning alien in no uncertain terms) are
real and have been sighted by their militaries on innumerable
occasions. But you are free like others to deny such statements have
been made by the Brazilian, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Belgian,
Italian, Polish, Mexican Air Forces all you wish.

You are free like other nutcases to insist that there is no evidence,
there is no proclamations from any government and all the
pictures/videos are 'blurred images' and ofcourse you are free to say
and believe that no metal samples have ever been found, nor analysed
by any scientific team anywhere in the world. In effect you are free
to believe whatever you wish on the subject and call all Ufologists
crackpot cab drivers.


Well not all of them will be cab drivers obviously. I am not a nutcase
Mad, just as I'm sure you are not a nutcase.

So you claim governments have officially proclaimed the existence of
aliens, is that right?. If so show me and everyone else the official
declarations on this. If what you say is true and the announcements
were official and government endorsed then I would like to see this.

And I mean government endorsed, not from some low ex government
employee who once made the tea.

What do you mean then? You want a testimony from a Prime Minister or
President of a country? The governments long ago, as soon as the UFO
and Extraterrestrial presence on earth became widely known, denied it
was their responsibility to declare anything to be 'real' or not 'real'.
Hence the media never asks them when they report on a UFO about what
it was that thousands of people saw.

But if you insist, the Vatican is one example of a 'nation-state' that
has in an official capacity declared UFO's real. And ofcourse the
Mexican declaration which was televised that they witnessed a close
encounter with combined radar and aircraft intercept was all over the
news. The story has one of the top military generals interviewed on the
subject where it was declared that UFO's are real and they aren't going
to lie to the public about it anymore. DO a google search, type in
Mexican UFO Air Force.

The Belgium Air Force declared they chased UFO's on numerous occasions,
while the West laughed about it in the press, while secretly damning the
Belgians for making the declaration public. But the sighting where they
chased the UFO was witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people at the
time.

There are videos circulating at UFO conferences which anyone can attend,
which shows numerous Air Force craft chasing UFO's. The French
government denies this, as does the British, Canadian, and American
because they would rather keep the subject top secret to this day.

Go to a conference in your area, and you will see the evidence for yourself.







The only reason I can see that some keep on about it is because

dumbpeople buy the books, watch the programs and donate money to
them,it is just a good money spinner for them.


Whatever. I see sci-fi writers in Hollywood making tons of money

off the subject of aliens and UFO's than any Ufologist could hope to
dream

of making in their lifetime.

Ray Vingnutte wrote:


There is hard evidence in the form of clear cut video footage and (now

mountains of video footage exists) and metal samples which have been
shown at worldwide UFO conferences and the metal was analysed by
scientific teams and the conclusion drawn declared the metal to be
composed of material not found on earth.

Plus there are a number of countries who have 'beat the Americans' and

come forward, ending the silence and ridicule by stating in no
uncertain terms that UFO's (meaning alien in no uncertain terms) are
real and have been sighted by their militaries on innumerable
occasions. But you are free like others to deny such statements have
been made by the Brazilian, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Belgian,
Italian, Polish, Mexican Air Forces all you wish.

You are free like other nutcases to insist that there is no evidence,
there is no proclamations from any government and all the
pictures/videos are 'blurred images' and ofcourse you are free to say
and believe that no metal samples have ever been found, nor analysed
by any scientific team anywhere in the world. In effect you are free
to believe whatever you wish on the subject and call all Ufologists
crackpot cab drivers.


Well not all of them will be cab drivers obviously. I am not a nutcase
Mad, just as I'm sure you are not a nutcase.

So you claim governments have officially proclaimed the existence of
aliens, is that right?. If so show me and everyone else the official
declarations on this. If what you say is true and the announcements
were official and government endorsed then I would like to see this.

And I mean government endorsed, not from some low ex government
employee who once made the tea.


UFO casebook has an almost exhaustive list of videos and interviews and
pictures of UFO's on their web site. You can freely download the videos
for yourself, and you will plainly see that many are not 'blurry
pictures' like some will have you believe they all are.

IN fact a UFO web site in Canada has some remarkable pictures as well
and videos. ( http://www.hbccufo.com/ - to say this picture on their
front page of the web site is 'blurry' should demonstrate to you the
lengths people will go to smear the subject and maintain their deceit
and lies) On their first web page they have an image which was validated
by a scientific team investigating the pictures, videos and metal
samples in the 70's. they spent alot of money with the investigation
and even made models which were later found by fraudsters who then took
pictures of those models and claimed he hoaxed all the videos. Many
lies were said about the man and to this day many lies are still said
about him, despite the fact that the sightings continue and were all
over the European press in the 70's. Other countries take the subject
far more seriously than America, Britain, Australia or Canada.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie...Search&met a=

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:31:02 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:


On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:10:57 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:



On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:46:47 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:




Ray Vingnutte wrote:




On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:18:59 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:





Ray Vingnutte wrote:





On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 06:06:40 GMT
Paul Lawler wrote:






"Wally Anglesea"

wrote:

One thing those who claim NASA is hiding alien structures

(including

hoaxland for instance) etc fail to recognise is that if

therereally was a sphinx on the Moon, or a face on Mars, NASA
would

haveall the budget it ever wanted, and then some.



When you realise that, anything proponents of alien

structures

sayfalls apart and they are reduced to performing mental
gymnastics inorder to maintain the belief.



Yes... you make an excellent point. There's no question but

that

justas in advertising, sex sells, so in NASA funding little

greenmensell. NASA has every imaginable reason for proving
Hoaglandet.al.correct, and no valid reason whatsoever to hide
such adiscovery. Andno, MS, the idea that they have been

"toldto shupup" is NOT a validreason, if it is so trivial to
discoverthatHoagland can do iteasily, then scientists outside
of thealleged"gag order" would beshouting this from the
rooftops.

And of course they fail to realise the most simplistic of all,

whichis that human nature is such that you could never keep it
secret, somany people at NASA and other organisations would now

allthis andto claim that ALL of them would not say something

and

release anyevidence is frankly stretching things too far. If it
were true itwould have got out by now. The fact it hasn't says

itall. The samewith UFO's.


No, no one keeps their mouth shut in the military when told to

because

the truth is far more important than your loosing your job or

yourlife.

c'mon....human nature has proven that it will destroy you for

going against the mainstream or 'rocking the boat' as others
suggest.


If one were talking of a small group of people then yes it would

bea simple matter to make it clear that if anyone speaks out they

willget an early morning call and have their kneecaps interfered
withor even worse. If anyone leaked then the suspects are easily
knownand traceable.


But we are not talking of a small group of people are we, we are
talking of thousands of people worldwide who would have to all

keeptheir mouths shut. Now if someone leaked, the authorities
would

haveno real chance of finding the leaker.


Thousands of people worldwide have seen UFO's and do not keep

their mouths shut - but they aren't talking in official capacities

neither. (For example we have eyewitness testimony from police
officersworldwide - but they don't speak for the polic forces
officialposition. We also have testimony from astronomers - but

notin anyofficial capacity. Their career is incidental to the
sightingsandinformation about those sightings) But that isn't the
problem,theproblem is with the nut cases of astronomy and
'science' and themedia(and the governments silence on the issue)
proclaiming it allhoaxes,or blurred pictures (they obviously don't
look at the nonblurry ones)or mass hysteria, etc. They only prove
that mankind isstill in thedark ages where excommunication and
denouncements stillexist for whatare plainly obvious facts.

Recent scientific surveys taken show that over 2/3rds of the US
population believe that UFO's are real. Yet the 'scientific'

bodiesact as though they have their heads in the sands. The same
surveyalso suggested that 90% of the American public believes the

governmentis hiding the truth and deceiving the public about UFO's
and Extraterrestrials. But scientists are not persuaded by public
opinion

(if they were, they never would have detonated nuclear bombs all

over the place), but they are persuaded by gag orders from the
government when it deals with national security, and UFO's

appearingoversenstive military installations IS a security issue
as far as

governments are concerned.

Another factor is the religious implications of UFO's and that is
hardly dealt with in discussion forums such as this.


As I said in another post, there are accounts from highly trained
people such as airline pilots and police officers etc that I
believe cannot be so easily dismissed. Even so, without hard
evidence available, it is one giant leap to suppose that what
was observed must be alien craft. They may well be alien craft
but the problem is you and I and everyone else must keep an open
mind until irrefutable evidence comes to light.


And none of those sightings are reported in official capacity

either.

Astronaut Gordon Cooper said on numerous occasions that he witnessed

UFO's which were alien spacecraft because they flew in violation of
known laws of physics, were obviously craft of some sort not known

to exist in the world and his testimony was outside official Air
Force capacity. Thus the Air Force does not endorse his statements
whenthey should, shouldn't they? After all he saw these objects
before hewent to the moon and the objects in question flew higher
than anyknown spacecraft at that time.


I believe it is wrong to dismiss outright, but I also believe
it is wrong to accept blindly without evidence. Sadly in the case
of alien craft the evidence is pretty weak to say the least and
I think saying that is being generous to those who blindly believe
in alien craft.

Well this is just another put down against Ufologists.




The fact remains there is no hard evidence, believe me, if evidence
is ever found or produced it will be all over the news channels so
much so that no one will miss it.



There is hard evidence in the form of clear cut video footage and

(now

mountains of video footage exists) and metal samples which have been

shown at worldwide UFO conferences and the metal was analysed by
scientific teams and the conclusion drawn declared the metal to be
composed of material not found on earth.

Plus there are a number of countries who have 'beat the Americans'

and

come forward, ending the silence and ridicule by stating in no
uncertain terms that UFO's (meaning alien in no uncertain terms) are
real and have been sighted by their militaries on innumerable
occasions. But you are free like others to deny such statements

havebeen made by the Brazilian, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Belgian,

Italian, Polish, Mexican Air Forces all you wish.

You are free like other nutcases to insist that there is no

evidence, there is no proclamations from any government and all the

pictures/videos are 'blurred images' and ofcourse you are free to

say and believe that no metal samples have ever been found, nor
analysedby any scientific team anywhere in the world. In effect you
are freeto believe whatever you wish on the subject and call all
Ufologists crackpot cab drivers.


Well not all of them will be cab drivers obviously. I am not a
nutcase Mad, just as I'm sure you are not a nutcase.

So you claim governments have officially proclaimed the existence of
aliens, is that right?. If so show me and everyone else the official
declarations on this. If what you say is true and the announcements
were official and government endorsed then I would like to see this.

And I mean government endorsed, not from some low ex government
employee who once made the tea.

What do you mean then?


It is very simple Mad, you claim governments have announced the
existence of aliens, yes??.

All I want to see is the official government endorsed declarations
of such.


You want a testimony from a Prime Minister or
President of a country?


Well it would not be them who would be likely to make the announcement
would it, more likely the immigration minister.

I don't see any point in reading or responding to the rest until you
put up the evidence of these so called endorsed declarations you say
have been made.

Links will do, no need to comment any further until you do.
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1626.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/physicalevidence.htm

The above web site is very well done and lists numerous astronomers who
know about the UFO reality and don't declare it all a 'hoax' or 'blurred
images' from 'crackpots' like a few on this newsgroup like to do. They
obviously don't look at the numerous reports made by government bodies
the world over.


http://www.creightonprep.creighton.e...ordanfiles.htm






The governments long ago, as soon as the UFO


snipped

Ray Vingnutte wrote:


What do you mean then?


It is very simple Mad, you claim governments have announced the
existence of aliens, yes??.

All I want to see is the official government endorsed declarations
of such.

http://ufologie.net/htm/offichili.htm



You want a testimony from a Prime Minister or
President of a country?


Well it would not be them who would be likely to make the announcement
would it, more likely the immigration minister.

I don't see any point in reading or responding to the rest until you
put up the evidence of these so called endorsed declarations you say
have been made.

Links will do, no need to comment any further until you do.



The governments long ago, as soon as the UFO


snipped

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

All I want to see is the official government endorsed declarations
of such.

http://ufologie.net/indexe.htm
http://www.cufon.org/

Here is an example of scientific papers which are known to exist because
they were either declassified or leaked.


AIR COMMAND AND STAFF COLLEGE

THE UFO PROBLEM: TIME FOR A REASSESSMENT

by

John R. King, FR 47113, 1930-
Major, USAF



A Thesis Submitted to the Air and Staff College of
Air University in Partial Fulfillment of The Requirements for Graduation

June 1968

Thesis directed by Dale E. Downing, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF
No. 0670-68

AIR UNIVERSITY

MAXWELL AIR FORCE BASE, ALABAMA

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABSTRACT

The debate centered around whether or not UFOs are extraterrestrial
space vehicles, or whether they exist at all, has raged for many years.
During the course of the debate the United States Air Force, official
government agency responsible for UFO report evaluation, has been
subjected to severe criticism for the manner in which it has handled
this problem. This paper presents the positions of the critics,
outlined the Air Force response and general approach to the subject and
concludes that the Air Force has performed ineptly. Recommendations are
made for the future conduct of UFO investigations.



You want a testimony from a Prime Minister or
President of a country?


Well it would not be them who would be likely to make the announcement
would it, more likely the immigration minister.

I don't see any point in reading or responding to the rest until you
put up the evidence of these so called endorsed declarations you say
have been made.

Links will do, no need to comment any further until you do.



The governments long ago, as soon as the UFO


snipped

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:56:05 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



previous stuff snipped


ofaliens, is that right?. If so show me and everyone else the
officialdeclarations on this. If what you say is true and the
announcementswere official and government endorsed then I would
like to see this.

And I mean government endorsed, not from some low ex government
employee who once made the tea.

What do you mean then?


It is very simple Mad, you claim governments have announced the
existence of aliens, yes??.

All I want to see is the official government endorsed declarations
of such.



You want a testimony from a Prime Minister or
President of a country?


Well it would not be them who would be likely to make the
announcement would it, more likely the immigration minister.

I don't see any point in reading or responding to the rest until you
put up the evidence of these so called endorsed declarations you say
have been made.

Links will do, no need to comment any further until you do.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1626.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/physicalevidence.htm

The above web site is very well done and lists numerous astronomers
who know about the UFO reality and don't declare it all a 'hoax' or
'blurred images' from 'crackpots' like a few on this newsgroup like to
do. They obviously don't look at the numerous reports made by
government bodies the world over.


Yes it is very well done and laid out. Very good indeed.

Trouble is none of them are government sites Mad, or indeed refer
to any government statements.


All of them refer to government statements. You obviously didn't look
very hard. I am not going to waste my time responding to you anymore.


I am sure that is just a slight oversight
on your part but some here are err, well starting to think that
desperation is setting in at your end.

Now I will give you one final chance to post information on these
so called government statements you say exist.

Take your time please, no hurry,



http://www.creightonprep.creighton.e...ordanfiles.htm






The governments long ago, as soon as the UFO


snipped

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:10:12 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:



What do you mean then?


It is very simple Mad, you claim governments have announced the
existence of aliens, yes??.

All I want to see is the official government endorsed declarations
of such.

http://ufologie.net/htm/offichili.htm


Mad, I may call you that I hope, you really must learn the distinction
between second/third/fourth hand accounts of what someone may or may
not have said. Yet again you produce a site that has no declaration
that any government has claimed alien existence. So some Chilean
guy who I have never heard of and may not even exist, may have said
something but there's no proof he had actually said what is claimed
he said, now come on Mad you will have to do better than this.


No you will have to do better than. Statements can be listened to on
teh web by government officials and documents released under the Freedom
of Information Act can be found all over the place. You don't want to
do the research, fine. I won't be doing it for you, but your statement
that I will have to do better remains meaningless.

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:21:26 GMT
Mad Scientist wrote:



Ray Vingnutte wrote:


All I want to see is the official government endorsed declarations
of such.

http://ufologie.net/indexe.htm
http://www.cufon.org/


Mad, I am not even going to bother looking anymore unless your link
has gov.org in the address.


snip, snip and more snip.


Do your own research Ray.