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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 14th 18, 01:06 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Posts: 1,989
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

Chris.B:
How does an impoverished country, so deeply in debt, like the USA, manage
such costly exercises?


Impoverished? Really? I should get out more.

The U.S. is an expensive country to maintain; it requires--and has--the
world's most extensive and deepest infrastructure *by far*. In WW II
both Germany and Japan fatally underestimated our infrastructure by a
huge factor and, apparently, failed to understand that it was
invulnerable to their military forces.

Let's compare the U.S. to a small country chosen at random. Denmark,
for example. The U.S. has 77 times as many motorway miles as Denmark.
Public debt in the U.S. is $57,000 per capita, 98% of GDP. In Denmark
it is $86,000 per capita, 163% of GDP. Who has the debt?

Luxembourg, said to be the "wealthiest of all countries," has a public
debt amounting to nearly $7 million per capita.

Wealthy Germany has 1/10 the motorways the U.S. has, and public debt is
148% of GDP.

Other countries with per capita public debt exceeding that of the U.S.
include the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Ireland, Switzerland,
Hong Kong, Australia, Singapore, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Norway
(twice that of the U.S.); Finland; Qatar; Malta; Iceland...

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #2  
Old February 14th 18, 08:13 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
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Posts: 311
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 19:06:34 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris.B:
How does an impoverished country, so deeply in debt, like the USA, manage
such costly exercises?


Impoverished? Really? I should get out more.

The U.S. is an expensive country to maintain; it requires--and has--the
world's most extensive and deepest infrastructure *by far*. In WW II
both Germany and Japan fatally underestimated our infrastructure by a
huge factor and, apparently, failed to understand that it was
invulnerable to their military forces.

Let's compare the U.S. to a small country chosen at random. Denmark,
for example. The U.S. has 77 times as many motorway miles as Denmark.
Public debt in the U.S. is $57,000 per capita, 98% of GDP. In Denmark
it is $86,000 per capita, 163% of GDP. Who has the debt?

Luxembourg, said to be the "wealthiest of all countries," has a public
debt amounting to nearly $7 million per capita.

Wealthy Germany has 1/10 the motorways the U.S. has, and public debt is
148% of GDP.

Other countries with per capita public debt exceeding that of the U.S.
include the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Ireland, Switzerland,
Hong Kong, Australia, Singapore, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Norway
(twice that of the U.S.); Finland; Qatar; Malta; Iceland...


You took the wheels off that truck...


--
Email address is a Spam trap.
  #3  
Old February 14th 18, 10:46 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Posts: 1,001
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrongwith the Webb telescope?

On Wednesday, 14 February 2018 08:13:50 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 19:06:34 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris.B:
How does an impoverished country, so deeply in debt, like the USA, manage
such costly exercises?


Impoverished? Really? I should get out more.

The U.S. is an expensive country to maintain; it requires--and has--the
world's most extensive and deepest infrastructure *by far*. In WW II
both Germany and Japan fatally underestimated our infrastructure by a
huge factor and, apparently, failed to understand that it was
invulnerable to their military forces.

Let's compare the U.S. to a small country chosen at random. Denmark,
for example. The U.S. has 77 times as many motorway miles as Denmark.
Public debt in the U.S. is $57,000 per capita, 98% of GDP. In Denmark
it is $86,000 per capita, 163% of GDP. Who has the debt?

Luxembourg, said to be the "wealthiest of all countries," has a public
debt amounting to nearly $7 million per capita.

Wealthy Germany has 1/10 the motorways the U.S. has, and public debt is
148% of GDP.

Other countries with per capita public debt exceeding that of the U.S.
include the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Ireland, Switzerland,
Hong Kong, Australia, Singapore, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Norway
(twice that of the U.S.); Finland; Qatar; Malta; Iceland...


You took the wheels off that truck...


Using motorway mileage as a measure of success seems pointless since it relates far more to land area rather than population. The sheer scale of America continues to astonish outsiders. A more fitting measure might be the success of public transport to attract customers as a percentage of population.. The debt per member of population does not accurately relate to the sheer size of that debt. Debt assumes repayment and/or massive interest rates. Is there a parallel universe where taxpayers are repaying this world's debts?
  #4  
Old February 15th 18, 07:03 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,989
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

Chris.B:
How does an impoverished country, so deeply in debt, like the USA, manage
such costly exercises?


Davoud:
Impoverished? Really? I should get out more.


The U.S. is an expensive country to maintain; it requires--and has--the
world's most extensive and deepest infrastructure *by far*. In WW II
both Germany and Japan fatally underestimated our infrastructure by a
huge factor and, apparently, failed to understand that it was
invulnerable to their military forces.


Let's compare the U.S. to a small country chosen at random. Denmark,
for example. The U.S. has 77 times as many motorway miles as Denmark.
Public debt in the U.S. is $57,000 per capita, 98% of GDP. In Denmark
it is $86,000 per capita, 163% of GDP. Who has the debt?


Luxembourg, said to be the "wealthiest of all countries," has a public
debt amounting to nearly $7 million per capita.

Wealthy Germany has 1/10 the motorways the U.S. has, and public debt is
148% of GDP.

Other countries with per capita public debt exceeding that of the U.S.
include the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Ireland, Switzerland,
Hong Kong, Australia, Singapore, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Norway
(twice that of the U.S.); Finland; Qatar; Malta; Iceland...


Bill:
You took the wheels off that truck...


Chris.B:
Using motorway mileage as a measure of success seems pointless since it
relates far more to land area rather than population. The sheer scale of
America continues to astonish outsiders. A more fitting measure might be the
success of public transport to attract customers as a percentage of
population.


Size matters very much. Consider public transport (ground transport,
that is). At a glance, it's not all that great in the U.S. (outside of
urban areas) compared to, say, Denmark. But a bus or train trip across
Denmark is no more than 350km. Across the U.S. it's 5200km. You can
ride the bus from Allagash, Maine, to San Diego, California, but such a
trip is not anyone's measure of success. Best you fly. Even then it
will take you more than eight hours (1 stop), which is more than twice
the time it takes to drive the length of Denmark. My point is that
we're talking apples and oranges; it's difficult to compare very
dissimilar entities.

The debt per member of population does not accurately relate to
the sheer size of that debt. Debt assumes repayment and/or massive interest
rates. Is there a parallel universe where taxpayers are repaying this world's debts?


Debt is relative and per capita debt is one way of flattening the field
and putting debt into perspective. It may not be meaningful to say that
the average American owes $57k in public debt while the average Dane
owes $86k, but it is an accurate statistic.

Speaking of ground transportation, my impoverished self just bought a
new Prius Four Touring (cash, no loans) to replace my 2006 Prius, which
gets recycled to my niece.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #5  
Old February 15th 18, 08:58 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 13:03:38 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Speaking of ground transportation, my impoverished self just bought a
new Prius Four Touring (cash, no loans) to replace my 2006 Prius, which
gets recycled to my niece.


Nice. We're still hanging on to our semi-ancient cars in the hopes
that a suitable electric vehicle for our needs will materialize soon.
Maybe before my own car finishes its return trip from the Moon (it's
about a quarter of the way back now).
  #6  
Old February 16th 18, 06:11 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,989
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

Davoud:
Speaking of ground transportation, my impoverished self just bought a
new Prius Four Touring (cash, no loans) to replace my 2006 Prius, which
gets recycled to my niece.


Chris L Peterson:
Nice. We're still hanging on to our semi-ancient cars in the hopes
that a suitable electric vehicle for our needs will materialize soon.
Maybe before my own car finishes its return trip from the Moon (it's
about a quarter of the way back now).


You beat Elon Musk to the punch and sent a car around the Moon!?

Since you brought it up, here's the rest of my story, quoted from a
post I made in another forum:

****

"I spent a month studying the feasibility of buying an EV with a view
toward buying a Tesla Model S.

"I drove two cars, talked to several owners, visited the showroom in
Owings Mills, MD, joined and studied the forum at tesla.com, etc.
Wonderful car in many ways.

"But I noticed something about a very substantial number of Tesla
owners. They are sufficiently wealthy that their Teslas are a hobby
item, one of a number of luxury cars they own. I have owned a number of
hobby cars over the years, and they mostly became burdensome after a
while. For some, their Tesla hobby includes making long trips, well
beyond the battery range. Such a trip requires careful planning and
considerable patience, and even then may go wrong and engender
considerable inconvenience. All part of the adventure, I am told.

"So I took a negative approach to the car in order to balance my fever
to own it. It's got the quality and it would surely be fun to own in
many ways. What can't it do that I need a car to do? Well, it turns out
that the trip my wife and I made from our home near Annapolis to see
and photograph the 2017 eclipse in Tennessee would have been impossible
in a Tesla. A round-trip from our home to my hometown in rural SW Pa.
would be impossible; there is no charging infrastructure there. A
round-trip to visit family in rural NW N.J. would be impractical or
impossible for the same reason. That has the Tesla making trips to the
mall and supermarket and to other places where one might hope to
impress people (except that Teslas are by now a bit too numerous in my
area to make people ooh and aah). Tesla owners charge their cars at
home 90% of the time.

"I looked at the Chevy Bolt. Pretty impressive technology, to be sure,
but a cramped interior that appears to be made of thrift-store
materials and no navigation system available.

"So, no EV for me until two things happen: a breakthrough in battery
technology and a significant increase in charging infrastructure. I'm
replacing my 2006 Prius with a 2018 model this very day (and giving the
2006 to my city-dwelling niece). And I have a new-generation Lexus RX
that proved to be a very comfortable and competent long-distance hauler
of astronomical equipment on our trip to Tennessee."

****

Good luck to you and to me. I fear that I was born too soon to benefit
much from the coming revolution in EVs. If they arrive in my lifetime
I'll probably already be driving the latest in electric wheelchair
tech.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #7  
Old February 16th 18, 06:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 00:11:09 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Since you brought it up, here's the rest of my story, quoted from a
post I made in another forum:


Makes perfect sense for your needs. A hybrid doesn't give us much
advantage unless it can be plugged in. Gasoline is a pain for us here,
an hour drive to the nearest filling station. And we don't drive long
distances very often, so typical EV ranges will work for the most
part.

In terms of features, we need something SUV like - no smaller than a
Highlander or Outback (got those two Great Danes to move around), with
decent ground clearance (several miles off road just to get to our 3/4
mile driveway for the new house we're building), and AWD (rather steep
off road in places, with marginal maintenance in winter). Something
will come along in the next few years, I'm certain.
  #8  
Old February 16th 18, 08:25 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,001
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrongwith the Webb telescope?

On Friday, 16 February 2018 06:28:35 UTC+1, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 00:11:09 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Since you brought it up, here's the rest of my story, quoted from a
post I made in another forum:


Makes perfect sense for your needs. A hybrid doesn't give us much
advantage unless it can be plugged in. Gasoline is a pain for us here,
an hour drive to the nearest filling station. And we don't drive long
distances very often, so typical EV ranges will work for the most
part.

In terms of features, we need something SUV like - no smaller than a
Highlander or Outback (got those two Great Danes to move around), with
decent ground clearance (several miles off road just to get to our 3/4
mile driveway for the new house we're building), and AWD (rather steep
off road in places, with marginal maintenance in winter). Something
will come along in the next few years, I'm certain.


A couple of good posts, gentlemen. Sadly, there was no Like button.

The world is crying out for a cheap, small, electric car and all the manufacturers can come up with is yet more of the same. The world's roads are, by a very large majority, peopled by secondhand cars. A NEW electric car might as well be made of solid gold and run on platinum tyres as far as MOST car owners are concerned!

This is not going to get hundreds of millions of batteries under more bums! Trickle down to the mass secondhand car market is going to have a lag of ten to fifteen years before they start to be taken up. I seriously doubt the early battery cars will be seen as realistic purchases as battery development soon makes them worthless.

There will probably be no backwards compatible battery vehicles for the secondhand market for several decades! By which time car ownership will probably have shifted to ride-hire alternatives for most commuters and shoppers.


  #9  
Old February 16th 18, 05:01 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Razzmatazz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrongwith the Webb telescope?

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 11:11:13 PM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
Speaking of ground transportation, my impoverished self just bought a
new Prius Four Touring (cash, no loans) to replace my 2006 Prius, which
gets recycled to my niece.


Chris L Peterson:
Nice. We're still hanging on to our semi-ancient cars in the hopes
that a suitable electric vehicle for our needs will materialize soon.
Maybe before my own car finishes its return trip from the Moon (it's
about a quarter of the way back now).


You beat Elon Musk to the punch and sent a car around the Moon!?

Since you brought it up, here's the rest of my story, quoted from a
post I made in another forum:

****

"I spent a month studying the feasibility of buying an EV with a view
toward buying a Tesla Model S.

"I drove two cars, talked to several owners, visited the showroom in
Owings Mills, MD, joined and studied the forum at tesla.com, etc.
Wonderful car in many ways.

"But I noticed something about a very substantial number of Tesla
owners. They are sufficiently wealthy that their Teslas are a hobby
item, one of a number of luxury cars they own. I have owned a number of
hobby cars over the years, and they mostly became burdensome after a
while. For some, their Tesla hobby includes making long trips, well
beyond the battery range. Such a trip requires careful planning and
considerable patience, and even then may go wrong and engender
considerable inconvenience. All part of the adventure, I am told.

"So I took a negative approach to the car in order to balance my fever
to own it. It's got the quality and it would surely be fun to own in
many ways. What can't it do that I need a car to do? Well, it turns out
that the trip my wife and I made from our home near Annapolis to see
and photograph the 2017 eclipse in Tennessee would have been impossible
in a Tesla. A round-trip from our home to my hometown in rural SW Pa.
would be impossible; there is no charging infrastructure there. A
round-trip to visit family in rural NW N.J. would be impractical or
impossible for the same reason. That has the Tesla making trips to the
mall and supermarket and to other places where one might hope to
impress people (except that Teslas are by now a bit too numerous in my
area to make people ooh and aah). Tesla owners charge their cars at
home 90% of the time.

"I looked at the Chevy Bolt. Pretty impressive technology, to be sure,
but a cramped interior that appears to be made of thrift-store
materials and no navigation system available.

"So, no EV for me until two things happen: a breakthrough in battery
technology and a significant increase in charging infrastructure. I'm
replacing my 2006 Prius with a 2018 model this very day (and giving the
2006 to my city-dwelling niece). And I have a new-generation Lexus RX
that proved to be a very comfortable and competent long-distance hauler
of astronomical equipment on our trip to Tennessee."

****

Good luck to you and to me. I fear that I was born too soon to benefit
much from the coming revolution in EVs. If they arrive in my lifetime
I'll probably already be driving the latest in electric wheelchair
tech.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm


Since I live in the city and occasionally go on trips out of town I bit the bullet and purchased a Chevy Volt. It's a great all-around vehicle and fits my needs perfectly. I normally use no gas for all our commuting needs during the week, and if I go long distance the range is about 340 miles with about 6 gallons of gas. The new Volt is even more efficient with better battery range, and the cars are cheaper than when I bought mine.

It's a hatchback and I can stuff my 17" astrograph, mount and pier into the back and have room left over for weekend camping stuff. Efficient, drives nice, comfortable for two people - I'll never be without some kind of electric car.

Razzy
  #10  
Old February 16th 18, 07:23 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:01:40 -0800 (PST), Razzmatazz wrote:

Since I live in the city and occasionally go on trips out of town I bit the bullet and purchased a Chevy Volt. It's a great all-around vehicle and fits my needs perfectly. I normally use no gas for all our commuting needs during the week, and if I go long distance the range is about 340 miles with about 6 gallons of gas. The new Volt is even more efficient with better battery range, and the cars are cheaper than when I bought mine.

It's a hatchback and I can stuff my 17" astrograph, mount and pier into the back and have room left over for weekend camping stuff. Efficient, drives nice, comfortable for two people - I'll never be without some kind of electric car.

Razzy


I've only gotten as far as having the additional wiring for a future
charging station added to my home.

I need EVs to get to the point where an EV would be a replacement, for
one of my fossil fueled vehicles. Until then, I would need to maintain
a redundant capability which makes no financial, or environmental,
sense.
--
Email address is a Spam trap.
 




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