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Another source of light pollution



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 28th 18, 05:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Another source of light pollution

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:18:22 -0800 (PST), "Chris.B"
wrote:

Carpet bombing children and civilians is considered a crime against humanity. So why not ban all advertising? It is far more damaging to a far greater number of innocent people.


If we value free expression, there are limits on the degree to which
we can ban advertising. But we could certainly ban it in many public
spaces.
  #12  
Old January 28th 18, 08:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
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Default Another source of light pollution

On Saturday, 27 January 2018 20:05:11 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:38:50 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

On Saturday, 27 January 2018 10:05:55 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:37:56 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

Paris has rules against shop lights from 1-5am to deal with light pollution and energy waste. So of course, someone had to try to go around the rules.

http://www.glowee.eu/

Lighting in cities is generally a good thing.


Circadian rhythm disruption. 90% of people in the civilized world live in cities and most don't use pitch-black window blinds or curtains.


It is bad design if people are unable to have darkness where they
sleep. Good lighting design fixes that.

A city without lights would be terrible.


Cities in the West are moving away from wasted lighting, thankfully. In fact, in Toronto, it's darker in the core of the city (most of it) than the suburbs.
Even light directly solely at the ground can cause light pollution from reflection from concrete. Another source are hyper-bright headlights on cars and trucks. Sometimes headlights on premium SUVs are so bright it looks like they have their highbeams on.
  #13  
Old January 29th 18, 12:03 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Another source of light pollution

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 9:07:41 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

If we value free expression, there are limits on the degree to which
we can ban advertising. But we could certainly ban it in many public
spaces.


What we value is free and open political debate. Advertising is not a human
right, and thus if other countries aren't in line with the Supreme Court's
interpretation of the First Amendment, that doesn't mean they're not
democracies.

John Savard

  #14  
Old January 29th 18, 02:06 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Another source of light pollution

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:03:44 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 9:07:41 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

If we value free expression, there are limits on the degree to which
we can ban advertising. But we could certainly ban it in many public
spaces.


What we value is free and open political debate. Advertising is not a human
right, and thus if other countries aren't in line with the Supreme Court's
interpretation of the First Amendment, that doesn't mean they're not
democracies.


Indeed. In the U.S., however, we grant rights to non-human entities.

(I don't really recognize the concept of a "human right". I think
rights should only be granted to human individuals.)
  #15  
Old January 29th 18, 02:07 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Another source of light pollution

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:41:36 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

On Saturday, 27 January 2018 20:05:11 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:38:50 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

On Saturday, 27 January 2018 10:05:55 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:37:56 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

Paris has rules against shop lights from 1-5am to deal with light pollution and energy waste. So of course, someone had to try to go around the rules.

http://www.glowee.eu/

Lighting in cities is generally a good thing.

Circadian rhythm disruption. 90% of people in the civilized world live in cities and most don't use pitch-black window blinds or curtains.


It is bad design if people are unable to have darkness where they
sleep. Good lighting design fixes that.

A city without lights would be terrible.


Cities in the West are moving away from wasted lighting, thankfully. In fact, in Toronto, it's darker in the core of the city (most of it) than the suburbs.


And yet, cities everywhere are using more and more lighting for pure
decoration.
  #16  
Old January 29th 18, 09:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Default Another source of light pollution

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:06:50 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
(I don't really recognize the concept of a "human right". I think
rights should only be granted to human individuals.)


Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the right
to not be killed.
  #17  
Old January 29th 18, 10:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default Another source of light pollution

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 12:46:20 PM UTC-8, Paul Schlyter wrote:

Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the right
to not be killed.


Tell that to the grizzly bear you surprise on a hike.

Tell that to the residents of certain villages in the middle east.

Just exactly who is it who grants this 'right not to be killed'?

  #18  
Old January 30th 18, 12:32 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Default Another source of light pollution



Paul Schlyter:
Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the right
to not be killed.


A lot of people don't get that human rights are not granted; they just
are. That's because it is so easy to deny a person their rights, right
up to the right to life itself.

palsing:
Tell that to the grizzly bear you surprise on a hike.

Tell that to the residents of certain villages in the middle east.

Just exactly who is it who grants this 'right not to be killed'?


I repeat, they just are. Try to think of it this way: you may easily
violate the anti-litter laws, but the laws exist whether you violate
them or not. It's a civilization thing.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #19  
Old January 30th 18, 12:33 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Another source of light pollution

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:46:16 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:06:50 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
(I don't really recognize the concept of a "human right". I think
rights should only be granted to human individuals.)


Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the right
to not be killed.


Sure. Or as I call them, "rights".
  #20  
Old January 30th 18, 12:59 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Another source of light pollution

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:32:42 -0500, Davoud wrote:

A lot of people don't get that human rights are not granted; they just
are. That's because it is so easy to deny a person their rights, right
up to the right to life itself.


Human rights are human inventions, that do not exist separate from our
culture. They may be claimed by those who are strong enough to defend
them, they may be granted by rulers. But there are no naturally
occurring rights. Not a one. Rights are whatever a society defines
them to be.
 




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