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Dangers of Global Warming



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 14th 15, 05:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
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On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 3:18:03 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 13/10/2015 16:30, Uncarollo2 wrote:

I do my daily commute to work and back in my Chevy Volt using only electricity.
It consumes a mere 200 watts per mile at a cost of less than 1 cent

per mile.

Units! It cannot do any number of watts/mile. From published figures I
reckon a Tesla typically uses about 400Whr = 1.5MJ per mile eg


Yes, I did not include the proper units. It's 200 wattHOURS per mile. Sorry about that. The Tesla is not as efficient as the Volt. It weighs a lot more and is not my idea of an economical car, although it is loads of fun to drive.


All courtesy of the Com Edison Byron Nuke plant and local windmills.
I get to work just as fast as the guy in the Porsche SUV while he gets
a measly 8mpg in his gas hog.

I fill up every night at my friendly 110 volt plug in my garage and next
morning the "tank" is full again, ready to covey me another 45+ miles.


Which is fine if you never have to drive any real distance.


I can drive the Volt over 350 miles without plugging it in. It has an on-board recharger if need be. But as I made clear, 90% of all driving is done commuting less than 40 miles per day. The other 10% I don't give a crap about. Your problem is that you want perfection or nothing. Sorry to disappoint you.


I have great torque and nothing spews out the tailpipe, there is not
a series of explosions pushing this vehicle forward, just the application
of Maxwell's equations and some magnets doing their work silently and

very efficiently.

There is some quite nasty battery chemistry involved and battery
capacity is not exactly stellar nor is long term life expectancy.


There is no nasty battery chemistry involved. The components are fully recyclable. The Volt battery has been tested to 200,000 miles and retains 80% of its initial capability. Even then the battery is quite useful for other purposes such as electric storage for solar and wind farms.


In the future would I consider going back to a gasoline car? Never!
Ask any Volt owner and to a person they will tell you the same thing.
Right now brand new ones are selling for less than $20k at our local

dealer.
Pretty good deal all around if you ask me.

How are they making a profit on them at that price?


I don't think that GM is going under. Their new 2016 models will have more range with a smaller battery and get better performance to boot. Other companies are also in the running besides GM. There's Toyota with plug-in Prius, Nissan, and even BMW is getting into the game. Tesla of course, and they will be introducing a family sedan at around $35k. Plus Tesla will be supplying future car makers with less expensive batteries from their battery mega plant. The future is bright for this technology. Yes, it's in infancy, but so was the Model T versus the horse. Who won that battle so long ago?

Uncaelectric

  #22  
Old October 14th 15, 05:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
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Default Dangers of Global Warming

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 8:30:16 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 3:32:58 PM UTC-4, Uncarollo2 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:45:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:30:13 AM UTC-4, Uncarollo2 wrote:

I do my daily commute to work and back in my Chevy Volt using only electricity. It consumes a mere 200 watts per mile

Incorrect.

at a cost of less than 1 cent per mile. All courtesy of the Com Edison Byron Nuke plant and local windmills.

*AND* from the coal plants located nearby.

I get to work just as fast as the guy in the Porsche SUV while he gets a measly 8mpg in his gas hog.

Most people don't drive 8-mpg SUVs. Or haven't you noticed?


No coal plants serve this area.


Incorrect. Illinois is full of coal plants.


So what, I don't use coal power. Those plants are far away in southern Illinois and serve mostly Kentucky markets. And they are slowly going under due to higher costs of coal versus natural gas. Most of them will be on the scrap heap in 5 years. Going bankrupt.
  #23  
Old October 14th 15, 05:58 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
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Default Dangers of Global Warming

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 8:34:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 4:18:03 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

edit

ugharoller isn't really making any particular progress in reducing his CO2 footprint. He continues to fly around and mostly certainly drives beyond the range of a recharging station in his (tax subsidized) 0bamamobile.

He is full of hot air.


Yip yip yip yip little doggie chasing cars again.

P.S. the Volt is really a Bushmobile, developed under Bush's watch in 2005 with full blessing from the shrub hisself.

yip yip yip, careful you don't accidentally catch one of those cars. liable to flatten your little torso. jest sain'
  #24  
Old October 14th 15, 06:06 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
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Default Dangers of Global Warming

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 10:18:05 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
Maybe converting the utilities will be enough, and we won't even have to switch
to electric cars - which are, at present, inferior, just as CFC-free
refrigerators are inferior.

John Savard


Whoa! Even at this point my electric car is NOT inferior to anything. It runs silently like a fine watch, does not have a transmission, gears and other claptrap.

The Tesla recently outran the most powerful production vehicle, the Dodge Hellcat, in a 1/4 mile race. The BMW i8 outruns the top of line BMW M4 super sports car. Here are the BMW specs:

"The BMW i8 is no ordinary sports car. It's an icon of progress - an extraordinary evolution of The Ultimate Driving Machine®. As a plug-in hybrid, this revolutionary vehicle combines the power of a TwinPower Turbo engine and the efficiency of an all-electric motor for an exhilarating driving experience that's every bit BMW."

- 0-60 mph in under 4.5 seconds

- Combined max. power - 362 hp and 420 lb-ft torque

- Boasts up to 94 mpg fuel efficiency*

- Fully recharges in 1.5 hours from a 220-volt Level 2 charger


  #25  
Old October 14th 15, 07:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:06:35 AM UTC-6, Uncarollo2 wrote:

- Fully recharges in 1.5 hours from a 220-volt Level 2 charger


I noticed one thing you didn't mention. After a full recharge, does it go as far
as a normal car would on a full gas tank?

And is it more expensive than a conventional car?

Lamborghini-style acceleration is really not what is important in a motor
vehicle. None the less, that it is achievable is still a positive sign for the
technology.

John Savard
  #26  
Old October 14th 15, 09:30 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Dr J R Stockton[_195_]
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In sci.astro.amateur message 1fe020e3-9557-4ff0-a03e-dd52f28ef08e@googl
egroups.com, Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:30:09, Uncarollo2
posted:

It consumes a mere 200 watts per mile
...


What do you think that means?


--
(c) John Stockton, near London. Mail
Web - FAQish topics, acronyms, and links.
  #27  
Old October 14th 15, 09:34 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Uncarollo2
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Posts: 803
Default Dangers of Global Warming

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 1:46:51 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:06:35 AM UTC-6, Uncarollo2 wrote:

- Fully recharges in 1.5 hours from a 220-volt Level 2 charger


I noticed one thing you didn't mention. After a full recharge, does it go as far
as a normal car would on a full gas tank?

And is it more expensive than a conventional car?

Lamborghini-style acceleration is really not what is important in a motor
vehicle. None the less, that it is achievable is still a positive sign for the
technology.

John Savard


Many people are totally confused and not well informed when it comes to new technology cars. They go with the tried and true, which today is gas powered since it meets all their needs. Gas cars can go one block or 2000 miles with minimum fuss. The new technology cars require some thinking and adjustment, and most people don't want to think or adjust.

It turns out that 90% or more of daily transportation needs for most people can be met by a vehicle that is powered by a battery that has a finite range. Right now only the Tesla has a 300 mile range, the others are less. The Nissan Leaf has about 120 mile range and has no backup gas motor. The Volt has about 50 - 60 mile range (new 2016 model), but has a small gas engine generator that can extend this range to over 350 miles without any loss of power or performance. When the battery runs below the all-electric mode, the gas engine automatically turns on and maintains the charge to the battery.. So basically you have your own plug in electric source. You don't need a 200 mile long extension cord.

Normally I drive the Volt for several months before the gas engine is needed. In gas mode, the mileage is between 50 and 70 mpg (US gallon), so it is extremely frugal. Last time I filled the tank was back in May of this year, and we have driven it every day back and forth to work, to various other activities around town, and never actually had the gas engine come on. I plug it in every night and next morning the battery is full, ready to go another 45 miles. In fact, sometimes I plug it in here at my factory when I have to do a lot of errands and have gone some 60 - 70 miles in a day with no gas used.

The whole point of a plug-in electric car is that the peak efficiency of these vehicles is exactly that useage where a gas car has its lowest possible efficiency - stop and go driving in urban and suburban areas. A friend of mine has a Lexus SUV, and in heavy traffic that beast showed a mere 7mpg on the dashboard. Out on the open highway it might be possible to get slightly more fuel efficiency out of an IC engine car in long distances, especially diesel vehicles, but even there the plug-in vehicles are not inefficient due to their aerodynamic designs. Last time I went into Chicago I got the equivalent of 75mpg (gas plus electric) in a 126 mile round trip. In town in stop and go traffic the mileage is even higher, over 100mpg.

Now you say Lamborghini performance is not required in a car, but it is exactly high performance race cars that have inspired things like disc brakes, anti-lock brakes, stability control, seat belts, and other things we take for granted. Sure the BMW-i8 is overkill, and I would not own one - way too expensive. However, it is the future, and it will come soon. I worked years ago on electric propulsion at Gould research Labs in Chicago. I designed an electronic drive and my team developed a matching motor that delivered 280 hp in a package 12" diameter and 15" long, weight a mere 300 lb. Compare that to what a 280hp IC motor size and weight is.

Advanced batteries will come, and if they can cut the size and weight by 50%, the future will have arrived. Want to bet against it?

Uncaelectricnukepower
  #28  
Old October 14th 15, 09:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,344
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On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:17:57 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:
I do my daily commute to work and back in my Chevy Volt using

only electricity.
It consumes a mere 200 watts per mile at a cost of less than 1

cent
per mile.


Units! It cannot do any number of watts/mile.


Yes it can! When the car is brand new it runs smoothly and consumes a
number of watts. If you don't maintain the car it will eventually
runt less smoothly and will therefore consumes more watts when
running. The number of watts per mile its power requirement increases
will be a measure of how fast the car deteriorates. Ideally the car's
power requirements would increase by zero watts per mile, in reality
it will increase by some non-zero watts per mile.
  #29  
Old October 14th 15, 10:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Uncarollo2 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 1:46:51 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:06:35 AM UTC-6, Uncarollo2 wrote:

- Fully recharges in 1.5 hours from a 220-volt Level 2 charger


I noticed one thing you didn't mention. After a full recharge, does it go as far
as a normal car would on a full gas tank?

And is it more expensive than a conventional car?

Lamborghini-style acceleration is really not what is important in a motor
vehicle. None the less, that it is achievable is still a positive sign for the
technology.

John Savard


Many people are totally confused and not well informed when it comes to
new technology cars. They go with the tried and true, which today is gas
powered since it meets all their needs. Gas cars can go one block or 2000
miles with minimum fuss. The new technology cars require some thinking
and adjustment, and most people don't want to think or adjust.

It turns out that 90% or more of daily transportation needs for most
people can be met by a vehicle that is powered by a battery that has a
finite range. Right now only the Tesla has a 300 mile range, the others
are less. The Nissan Leaf has about 120 mile range and has no backup gas
motor. The Volt has about 50 - 60 mile range (new 2016 model), but has a
small gas engine generator that can extend this range to over 350 miles
without any loss of power or performance. When the battery runs below the
all-electric mode, the gas engine automatically turns on and maintains
the charge to the battery. So basically you have your own plug in
electric source. You don't need a 200 mile long extension cord.

Normally I drive the Volt for several months before the gas engine is
needed. In gas mode, the mileage is between 50 and 70 mpg (US gallon), so
it is extremely frugal. Last time I filled the tank was back in May of
this year, and we have driven it every day back and forth to work, to
various other activities around town, and never actually had the gas
engine come on. I plug it in every night and next morning the battery is
full, ready to go another 45 miles. In fact, sometimes I plug it in here
at my factory when I have to do a lot of errands and have gone some 60 -
70 miles in a day with no gas used.

The whole point of a plug-in electric car is that the peak efficiency of
these vehicles is exactly that useage where a gas car has its lowest
possible efficiency - stop and go driving in urban and suburban areas. A
friend of mine has a Lexus SUV, and in heavy traffic that beast showed a
mere 7mpg on the dashboard. Out on the open highway it might be possible
to get slightly more fuel efficiency out of an IC engine car in long
distances, especially diesel vehicles, but even there the plug-in
vehicles are not inefficient due to their aerodynamic designs. Last time
I went into Chicago I got the equivalent of 75mpg (gas plus electric) in
a 126 mile round trip. In town in stop and go traffic the mileage is even
higher, over 100mpg.

Now you say Lamborghini performance is not required in a car, but it is
exactly high performance race cars that have inspired things like disc
brakes, anti-lock brakes, stability control, seat belts, and other things
we take for granted. Sure the BMW-i8 is overkill, and I would not own one
- way too expensive. However, it is the future, and it will come soon. I
worked years ago on electric propulsion at Gould research Labs in
Chicago. I designed an electronic drive and my team developed a matching
motor that delivered 280 hp in a package 12" diameter and 15" long,
weight a mere 300 lb. Compare that to what a 280hp IC motor size and weight is.

Advanced batteries will come, and if they can cut the size and weight by
50%, the future will have arrived. Want to bet against it?

Uncaelectricnukepower


There are good small cars as well.I considered a VW Golf GTe plug in hybrid
which would let me do most of my journeys electric only but at 30,000
pounds even with the 5,000 pound subsidy it was too much. I expect VW to
rush ahead with their electric and hybrid models now the diesel market has
collapsed. Once the SEAT and Skoda models are produced the prices should be
more reasonable.

  #30  
Old October 14th 15, 10:44 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Sjouke Burry[_2_]
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Posts: 402
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On 14.10.15 22:47, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:17:57 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:
I do my daily commute to work and back in my Chevy Volt using

only electricity.
It consumes a mere 200 watts per mile at a cost of less than 1

cent
per mile.


Units! It cannot do any number of watts/mile.


Yes it can! When the car is brand new it runs smoothly and consumes a
number of watts. If you don't maintain the car it will eventually
runt less smoothly and will therefore consumes more watts when
running. The number of watts per mile its power requirement increases
will be a measure of how fast the car deteriorates. Ideally the car's
power requirements would increase by zero watts per mile, in reality
it will increase by some non-zero watts per mile.

It is totally impossible to consume watts.
You are confusing power(watts) and energy(1000 watthours is 1 KWh)

Multiply your watts with time and you have energy(consumption).
 




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