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Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 5th 04, 06:18 AM
Brian Tung
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Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?


That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.

Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so. It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
  #12  
Old January 5th 04, 06:18 AM
Brian Tung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?


That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.

Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so. It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
  #13  
Old January 5th 04, 06:18 AM
Brian Tung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?


That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.

Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so. It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
  #14  
Old January 5th 04, 06:30 AM
Robert J. Kolker
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Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program



Brian Tung wrote:

Robert J. Kolker wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?



That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.


You neglect to say the buck forty was taken whether or not the person
gave a damn about landing on Mars. Unless this is somehow related to our
national defense or keeping order in our land, I would say this is flat
out theft.


Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so.


You prefer theft?

It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.


At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.

Any tax that is not earmarked for our defense or our safety if plunder
and redistribution. Governments are established to protect the lives
and property of the people who ordain them. Governments are not supposed
to be charitable with other people's money.

Bob Kolker

  #15  
Old January 5th 04, 06:30 AM
Robert J. Kolker
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Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program



Brian Tung wrote:

Robert J. Kolker wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?



That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.


You neglect to say the buck forty was taken whether or not the person
gave a damn about landing on Mars. Unless this is somehow related to our
national defense or keeping order in our land, I would say this is flat
out theft.


Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so.


You prefer theft?

It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.


At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.

Any tax that is not earmarked for our defense or our safety if plunder
and redistribution. Governments are established to protect the lives
and property of the people who ordain them. Governments are not supposed
to be charitable with other people's money.

Bob Kolker

  #16  
Old January 5th 04, 06:30 AM
Robert J. Kolker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program



Brian Tung wrote:

Robert J. Kolker wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?



That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.


You neglect to say the buck forty was taken whether or not the person
gave a damn about landing on Mars. Unless this is somehow related to our
national defense or keeping order in our land, I would say this is flat
out theft.


Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so.


You prefer theft?

It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.


At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.

Any tax that is not earmarked for our defense or our safety if plunder
and redistribution. Governments are established to protect the lives
and property of the people who ordain them. Governments are not supposed
to be charitable with other people's money.

Bob Kolker

  #17  
Old January 5th 04, 06:47 AM
Brian Tung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.


I suspect the reason for our disagreement on this point is largely
political, but I do want to point out that humans are notoriously
shortsighted. If the horizon for the return is on the order of a human
lifetime, I don't think we can rely on privatization to do the right
thing. The U.S. public's perception of science is terribly poor.

On the rest of the points, I will simply say: Yes, I would prefer it
that way. You do not. That's fine; we have elections to resolve this
kind of thing.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
  #18  
Old January 5th 04, 06:47 AM
Brian Tung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.


I suspect the reason for our disagreement on this point is largely
political, but I do want to point out that humans are notoriously
shortsighted. If the horizon for the return is on the order of a human
lifetime, I don't think we can rely on privatization to do the right
thing. The U.S. public's perception of science is terribly poor.

On the rest of the points, I will simply say: Yes, I would prefer it
that way. You do not. That's fine; we have elections to resolve this
kind of thing.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
  #19  
Old January 5th 04, 06:47 AM
Brian Tung
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.


I suspect the reason for our disagreement on this point is largely
political, but I do want to point out that humans are notoriously
shortsighted. If the horizon for the return is on the order of a human
lifetime, I don't think we can rely on privatization to do the right
thing. The U.S. public's perception of science is terribly poor.

On the rest of the points, I will simply say: Yes, I would prefer it
that way. You do not. That's fine; we have elections to resolve this
kind of thing.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
  #20  
Old January 5th 04, 06:48 AM
Jim Shaffer, Jr.
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Posts: n/a
Default Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 05:30:33 GMT, "Robert J. Kolker"
wrote:

That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.


You neglect to say the buck forty was taken whether or not the person
gave a damn about landing on Mars. Unless this is somehow related to our
national defense or keeping order in our land, I would say this is flat
out theft.


I, for one, am not happy with how they're mis-spending my money in pursuit of
national defense nor domestic order, but I can't do any more about it than you
can do about the Mars missions. At least you could, if you choose, enjoy the
exploration, which is more than I can do with the fascism.



 




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