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OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 30th 08, 11:33 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Ian Parker
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals

On 30 May, 01:32, Matt wrote:
The "whirling weights in sealed cylinders" bit makes it sound like a
tricked-out version of the same old unbalanced-wheel perpetual
motion. *Nothing to look at there.
The idea about jets used to force air out openings to provide lift to
a disc - is it not more efficient to simply provide lift directly from
the jets, as in the Harrier, etc.? Any intermediate step is only going
to reduce net lift.

No this is not true. Ultimately lift is provided by action and
reaction - true. The vortex though allows a small mass of high speed
air to move a large mass of slow moving air. What happend is that if
we (say) have a 5m disc air 20m away feels the feect and starts moving
downwards. It is in effect a gearing effect, just as if you go through
air at 500km/h you cause a large mass of air to go downwards and
provide lift. The normal explanation of lift is a partial vacuum on
the upper part of the wing. However you can also look at it in a
momentum conservation way and say that the aircraft forces a large
mass of air downwards. It is the same here, a vortex forces a large
mass of air downwards.

As I said in previous postings the big problem is stablity. Now a
turbofan equiped with a computer and a large number of orifices MIGHT
be able to achieve stability throughout the speed range. I say "might"
the word "might" indicates that I do not believe an aircraft can be
quickly cobbled together, but that research is justified and valuable.
As I said the main problem is stability.

Let us look at the helicopter and see how it solves its problems. As
soon as a helicopter starts to move air over the forward moving blades
of the rotor is moving faster than the trainling rotor. The helicopter
soves this problem by reducing the angle of attack of the forward
moving blades. A helicopter is controlled by adhusting camshafts which
feather the blades. In this way 2 axis control is ackieved, the third
axis the "rudder" is achieved from the tail rotor.

The retreating blade needs to achieve some lift. It is for this reason
that helicopters cannot travel much faster than Mach 0.3 with an
absolute (unattainable) theoretical limit of 0.5. The leading blades
would be supersonic and the trailing blades too slow to achieve lift.

Now we have to achieve a similar feat with a vortex aircraft.
Difficult, you need multiple orifices and a fast computer. In fact the
best way to fly a German glying saucer would be to go up to 1000m and
then go into a vertical dive. It would be stable in stationary air and
stable as a fixed wing but not in between.


- Ian Parker
  #12  
Old May 30th 08, 05:21 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals



Ian Parker wrote:

As I said in previous postings the big problem is stablity. Now a
turbofan equiped with a computer and a large number of orifices MIGHT
be able to achieve stability throughout the speed range. I say "might"
the word "might" indicates that I do not believe an aircraft can be
quickly cobbled together, but that research is justified and valuable.
As I said the main problem is stability.


The Harrier's Pegasus is a turbofan.
  #13  
Old May 30th 08, 08:09 PM posted to sci.space.history
OM[_6_]
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals

On Fri, 30 May 2008 02:43:48 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

This was a fairly odd Magnus Effect concept; a Trac-Ball scaled up to
huge size to make an airship: http://www.magenn.com/about.php
Golf balls use the Magnus Effect; that's what the dimples on its surface
are there for - to create air turbulance over its surface as it spins
while in flight and gains altitude from the lift it generates.


....Well, now we know what they did with "Rover" after The Village was
shut down in 1969!

http://www.magenn.com/images/aboutPic2.jpg
http://www.magenn.com/images/aboutPic3.jpg

OM
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  #14  
Old May 31st 08, 09:31 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals



OM wrote:
...Well, now we know what they did with "Rover" after The Village was
shut down in 1969!

http://www.magenn.com/images/aboutPic2.jpg
http://www.magenn.com/images/aboutPic3.jpg


Did you ever read what happened to the original "Rover"?
They spent a fortune on developing this amphibious radio-controlled
thing that looked like a cylindrical swimming pool with a checkered
parasol on its top*... that sank the first time they sent it out to
sea...so the new "Rover" (a weather balloon full of CO2) replaced it as
a desperation move at the last moment.
And worked great!
What the HELL was that thing supposed to be? A robot? A giant roaring
Amoeba?
Whatever it was, it was completely unforgettable when I saw the show as
a kid...particularly the way it suffocated people by sitting on their
faces and sucking them inside of it:
http://www.acbm.com/concours/prisone...ver/etouff.jpg
That was _really_ scary.
That was "Invaders From Mars" scary.
IIRC, they went through around 300 weather balloons during the series as
the Rovers would pop while chasing their prey.

* I'm not going to track it down right now, but somewhere out on the web
there's a photo of that thing, which looks about as threatening as a
oversized Roomba.
Of course... a Roomba scaled up to the the size where it could suck up
people like so many Boxelder Bugs would be pretty impressive, wouldn't it?
General Klytus, get to work on this concept immediately!
"Yes, Your Majesty!"
And power them via _Radium_, Klytus... we don't want them to run out of
energy with only _half_ of Earth's pathetic population suffering their
skins being flayed from their bodies by the terrible rotating brushes,
do we?
"Most effective, Your Majesty!" :-D

Pat

  #15  
Old May 31st 08, 11:38 AM posted to sci.space.history
OM[_6_]
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals

On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:31:48 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Did you ever read what happened to the original "Rover"?


....That "Volkswagen on Crack" prop? Oh yeah.

They spent a fortune on developing this amphibious radio-controlled
thing that looked like a cylindrical swimming pool with a checkered
parasol on its top*... that sank the first time they sent it out to
sea...so the new "Rover" (a weather balloon full of CO2) replaced it as
a desperation move at the last moment.


....There's been one problem with the "fate" of the original "Rover" -
there's been at least a dozen expeditions to try and find the damn
thing, and nobody's been able to find it. Footage of the Rover's
demise has finally been scrounged up, and last I hear the geeks at Six
of One managed to determine where it sank, but they still can't find
it. Which, despite the footage, still has a lot of "Prisoner" fans
believing this version of "Rover" only existed in the original
scripts.

Wonder what Curt's doing these days? There might be a new recovery
project for him here...:-)

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
  #16  
Old May 31st 08, 11:40 AM posted to sci.space.history
OM[_6_]
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals

On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:31:48 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Whatever it was, it was completely unforgettable when I saw the show as
a kid...particularly the way it suffocated people by sitting on their
faces and sucking them inside of it:
http://www.acbm.com/concours/prisone...ver/etouff.jpg


...."Rover" could suffocate, incapacitate, or envelop and carry. One
draft script called for Number 6 to be retrieved from sea by four of
them suspending him between them - as if he was about to be drawn and
quartered - but this got dropped way in advance of filming.

OM
--
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] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
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  #17  
Old May 31st 08, 03:09 PM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals



OM wrote:

...There's been one problem with the "fate" of the original "Rover" -
there's been at least a dozen expeditions to try and find the damn
thing, and nobody's been able to find it. Footage of the Rover's
demise has finally been scrounged up, and last I hear the geeks at Six
of One managed to determine where it sank, but they still can't find
it. Which, despite the footage, still has a lot of "Prisoner" fans
believing this version of "Rover" only existed in the original
scripts.

Wonder what Curt's doing these days? There might be a new recovery
project for him here...:-)


That would be telling.... :-)

Pat
OM

  #18  
Old May 31st 08, 03:43 PM posted to sci.space.history
Anthony Frost
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals

In message
OM wrote:

...There's been one problem with the "fate" of the original "Rover" -
there's been at least a dozen expeditions to try and find the damn
thing, and nobody's been able to find it. Footage of the Rover's
demise has finally been scrounged up, and last I hear the geeks at Six
of One managed to determine where it sank, but they still can't find
it.

Wonder what Curt's doing these days? There might be a new recovery
project for him here...:-)


How is he with wet sand? Port Meirion is on an estuary with a decent
tidal range, at low tide there's a lot of reasonably flat surface that's
firm enough to race your Mini Moke across, the rest of the time the
currents are moving things around a lot. Some tourist will probably get
the fright of their life when it pops up in front of them one day.

Anthony

  #19  
Old June 1st 08, 03:02 AM posted to sci.space.history
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals

"OM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:31:48 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Did you ever read what happened to the original "Rover"?


...That "Volkswagen on Crack" prop? Oh yeah.

They spent a fortune on developing this amphibious radio-controlled
thing that looked like a cylindrical swimming pool with a checkered
parasol on its top*... that sank the first time they sent it out to
sea...so the new "Rover" (a weather balloon full of CO2) replaced it as
a desperation move at the last moment.


...There's been one problem with the "fate" of the original "Rover" -
there's been at least a dozen expeditions to try and find the damn
thing, and nobody's been able to find it. Footage of the Rover's
demise has finally been scrounged up, and last I hear the geeks at Six
of One managed to determine where it sank, but they still can't find
it. Which, despite the footage, still has a lot of "Prisoner" fans
believing this version of "Rover" only existed in the original
scripts.


Huh, my understanding was that at least part of the Rover was recovered and
used in some latter scene as some form of ceiling ornament.


Wonder what Curt's doing these days? There might be a new recovery
project for him here...:-)

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[




--
Greg Moore
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Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html


  #20  
Old June 1st 08, 09:48 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default OT Forget rocket engines...and also walls and wounded animals



Anthony Frost wrote:

How is he with wet sand? Port Meirion is on an estuary with a decent
tidal range, at low tide there's a lot of reasonably flat surface that's
firm enough to race your Mini Moke across, the rest of the time the
currents are moving things around a lot. Some tourist will probably get
the fright of their life when it pops up in front of them one day.


I found a photo of the original Rover:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_kKnTAJvZ5rI/...over_wrong.jpg
A couple of cartoons about it he
http://www.theunmutual.co.uk/roverone.htm

Pat
 




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