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Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.



 
 
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  #441  
Old January 6th 08, 03:11 AM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Mike Schilling
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Posts: 172
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

David DeLaney wrote:
Howard Brazee wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
If you can add 5% (or whatever your rate is) to the displayed
price
when figuring out how much you'll pay, surely you can take 5% of
the displayed price when figuring out how much the tax was. And
any
reasonable law would require them to print the amount of tax
charged as is done in Europe.


You've got to find out your tax. I'm getting ready to buy a Mac
Pro (waiting for Mac Expo), so I went out to this site to try to
figure
out where would be the cheapest place to buy it:
https://www.taxview.state.co.us/Quer...spx?selected=1

Some of the cities have a half dozen different taxes I need to add
together.


There's also the problem that adding 5% to get the total means you'd
have to subtract 4.762% to find the original price, and so on for
other tax rates.


Or divide by 105 and then shift the decimal place over, which is a bit
simpler.


  #442  
Old January 6th 08, 03:28 AM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Wallace Wright
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Posts: 12
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 07:37:21PM -0700, N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
Dear Wallace Wright:
Consider the once common practise of referring to a
sailing ship as a 'she': an object subject to the piloting
of a man.


An object that holds the lives of the crew in her "womb" (aka.
hold), and stands between her captain and the Sea (also sometimes
referred to as a woman).

Mother Earth.


Perhaps this expression is representative of non-Christian influence
on the English language?

I think you are looking at this by "exception", rather than by
rule. And I know there are (by my label) at *lot* of
execeptions... :(


I suspect that if you examine Greek mythology and its historical influence
on subsequent socio-politial mores, you find an influence more in line
with the sentiment I expressed. Unfortunately, that is an academic
undertaking that I have not done, so I can only offer subjective anecdotal
references on this particular point.

  #443  
Old January 6th 08, 04:12 AM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)[_115_]
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Posts: 1
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

Dear Wallace Wright:

"Wallace Wright" wrote in message
...
On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 07:37:21PM -0700, N:dlzc D:aol T:com
(dlzc) wrote:
Dear Wallace Wright:
Consider the once common practise of referring
to a sailing ship as a 'she': an object subject to
the piloting of a man.


An object that holds the lives of the crew in her
"womb" (aka. hold), and stands between her
captain and the Sea (also sometimes
referred to as a woman).

Mother Earth.


Perhaps this expression is representative of non-
Christian influence on the English language?


Differentiation between male and female predates Christianity. I
was simply trying to provide some "non male domanance" examples,
where gender is involved. Many "transactions" are described
without invoking gender.

For the most part, the captain and crew hold their ship in very
high regard. And if they don't, they die.

I think you are looking at this by "exception",
rather than by rule. And I know there are (by
my label) at *lot* of execeptions... :(


I suspect that if you examine Greek mythology
and its historical influence on subsequent socio-
politial mores, you find an influence more in line
with the sentiment I expressed.


Probably not Greek. There were female Greek gods, and quite
powerful ones. One would never say that Zeus was master of Hera.

Unfortunately, that is an academic undertaking
that I have not done, so I can only offer subjective
anecdotal references on this particular point.


Your point is valid. It is simply not "universal", nor
"eternal". It just descibes the "dip" we are currently in (and
are hopefully on our way out of).

David A. Smith


  #444  
Old January 6th 08, 04:22 AM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Terry Austin
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Posts: 40
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

Gene Ward Smith wrote in
. 33.102:

Terry Austin wrote in
:

All of it means, in the end, that we are beginning to know enough to
know how much we don't know.


That you call astonishing progress?

You don't? Oh, wait, you're stupid. And dishonest.

--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your bitch, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock
  #445  
Old January 6th 08, 05:03 AM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Michael Ash
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Posts: 128
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

In rec.arts.sf.science Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:24:41 -0600, Michael Ash
wrote:

As a consumer, I prefer knowing how much is tax (even though it
falsely implies that the rest of the price doesn't include taxes).


If you can add 5% (or whatever your rate is) to the displayed price when
figuring out how much you'll pay, surely you can take 5% of the displayed
price when figuring out how much the tax was. And any reasonable law would
require them to print the amount of tax charged as is done in Europe.


You've got to find out your tax. I'm getting ready to buy a Mac Pro
(waiting for Mac Expo), so I went out to this site to try to figure
out where would be the cheapest place to buy it:
https://www.taxview.state.co.us/Quer...spx?selected=1

Some of the cities have a half dozen different taxes I need to add
together.


What a coincidence, I'm typing this on a Mac Pro.

Any reasonable law (not that they have to be reasonable) would require the
amount of tax to be printed on your receipt, so you can find out anyway.
If you don't know the precise tax rate then the choice is between a
surprise at the register, or knowing exactly what you'll pay but not
knowing how much goes to whom. I think the latter is vastly preferable.
And of course your work in this case would be made vastly simpler if it
were the case: just call the stores and ask for their prices.

Off the topic of the thread, but if you don't mind skipping your state's
use tax, you might consider buying from smalldog.com. They're the only
mail-order place I'm aware of which offers customized configurations on
Macs, and they have good service in my limited experience.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software
  #446  
Old January 6th 08, 05:59 PM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Howard Brazee
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Posts: 261
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:12:28 -0700, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"
wrote:

I suspect that if you examine Greek mythology
and its historical influence on subsequent socio-
politial mores, you find an influence more in line
with the sentiment I expressed.


Probably not Greek. There were female Greek gods, and quite
powerful ones. One would never say that Zeus was master of Hera.


I read an article one time - this scholar noted that the Mediterranean
was full of temples to goddesses, that were replaced by temples to
gods. After doing some studying he came up with the observation that
they changed shortly after the particular regions became literate.

His hypothesis is that in pre-literate societies, the gender that is
better at discussion and consensus dominated in religion - but the
gender that is more comfortable with rules and force dominated after
the rules could be written down.
  #447  
Old January 6th 08, 06:13 PM posted to rec.arts.sf.science, rec.arts.sf.written, sci.astro
Matt Browne SFW
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Posts: 3
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

On Jan 5, 7:19 pm, Terry Austin
wrote:
Matt Browne SFW wrote :


I also think that we have to be a bit careful with the term
"immortality". I prefer the concept of "life extension". Immortality
is based on infinity. Will the universe exist forever? Even if it
does, what if all energy sources are depleted? Burned-out stars. Just
iron whereever you look. But even protons might decay and half of them
might be gone in 10^36 years. And later on? Do the "immortals" still
exist? Are there digital copies in the form of photon sequences?


For most people, immortality is a more flexible term.


--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.


For most people seriously interested in future studies, cognitive
sciences and information technology etc. you might be right. However,
it's my experience that many people outside this group (including
scientists) reject the notion of "immortality" in a non-religious
sense. Some also have problems discussing the notion of a
"singularity" (not meant as a black hole). It gets easier by using
terms such as "intelligence explosion". And the same might be true for
"life extension" which is already available today and can be improved
upon. If mind uploading ever works to me this is also more an act of
"life extension" than becoming "immortal". But I admit this is quite
subjective.

--
Matt Browne
My webpage is at http://www.meet-matt-browne.com

"As a race, we survive on planet Earth purely by geological consent."
Bill McGuire

  #448  
Old January 6th 08, 06:21 PM posted to rec.arts.sf.science, rec.arts.sf.written, sci.astro
Matt Browne SFW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

On Jan 5, 11:34 pm, Terry Austin
wrote:
Gene Ward Smith wrote 5.17.102:

Matt Browne SFW wrote in
news:6c963af0-5074-
:


The progress in reverse engineering the human brain is
astonishing.


Consisting of what, exactly?


Lots of work has been done. MRIs have let us map various brain functions
far more precisely, especially with people who have permanent brain
injuries. More micoscopic work has given us a much better understanding of
how neurons and synapses and other components interact. Research in to
neural net computers has been quite informative. Did you know that it has
been conclusively proven that adult brains can, under some circumstances,
completely rewrite portions of themselves to the extent of processing touch
data from the tongue as visual data?

All of it means, in the end, that we are beginning to know enough to know
how much we don't know. And the brain, of course, is not the consciousness
(and we really aren't sure how much it contributes to it).

No one alive today will live long enough to see a successful copying of the
human mind.

--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your bitch, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock


This gives a good overview:

http://www.geek.com/scientists-want-...eer-the-brain/

"The concept of reverse engineering the human brain seems to be
intriguing scientists and electrical engineers alike. The idea behind
reverse engineering is to dissect the brain in extremely thin layers
and then photograph each section. The tools used today, and
particularly in the future, will be sophisticated enough to examine
the behavior of individual neurons and synapses. Then the programming
of the brain can hopefully be ascertained. The biggest proponent of
reverse-engineering the brain is Ray Kurzweil, who believes that the
secrets of the brain will be revealed within the next two decades."

And I think it's quite interesting what this team is doing:

http://www.abrg.group.shef.ac.uk/index.php

--
Matt Browne
My webpage is at http://www.meet-matt-browne.com

"As a race, we survive on planet Earth purely by geological consent."
Bill McGuire

  #449  
Old January 6th 08, 08:00 PM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Terry Austin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

Matt Browne SFW wrote in
:

On Jan 5, 7:19 pm, Terry Austin
wrote:
Matt Browne SFW wrote

m:


I also think that we have to be a bit careful with the term
"immortality". I prefer the concept of "life extension".
Immortality is based on infinity. Will the universe exist forever?
Even if it does, what if all energy sources are depleted?
Burned-out stars. Just iron whereever you look. But even protons
might decay and half of them might be gone in 10^36 years. And
later on? Do the "immortals" still exist? Are there digital copies
in the form of photon sequences?


For most people, immortality is a more flexible term.


--
Terry Austin
Beware the other head of science. It bites.


For most people seriously interested in future studies, cognitive
sciences and information technology etc. you might be right. However,
it's my experience that many people outside this group (including
scientists) reject the notion of "immortality" in a non-religious
sense.


Irrelevant to what they mean by it.

Some also have problems discussing the notion of a
"singularity" (not meant as a black hole). It gets easier by using
terms such as "intelligence explosion".


Singularity has been so overused, it's just annoying. Changing it to
another term will make it less annoying for a while, though the concept
has gotten rather old and trite, too.

And the same might be true for
"life extension" which is already available today and can be improved
upon.


That's simply a matter of marketing, and truth in advertising.
"Immortality" sounds like a science fiction-y term. "Life extension"
sounds like something that might actually exist.

--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your bitch, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock
  #450  
Old January 6th 08, 08:01 PM posted to rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.astro
Terry Austin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Ray Kurzweil: Immortality within 15 years.

Matt Browne SFW wrote in
:

On Jan 5, 11:34 pm, Terry Austin
wrote:
Gene Ward Smith wrote
5.17.102:

Matt Browne SFW wrote in
news:6c963af0-5074-
:


The progress in reverse engineering the human brain is
astonishing.


Consisting of what, exactly?


Lots of work has been done. MRIs have let us map various brain
functions far more precisely, especially with people who have
permanent brain injuries. More micoscopic work has given us a much
better understanding of how neurons and synapses and other components
interact. Research in to neural net computers has been quite
informative. Did you know that it has been conclusively proven that
adult brains can, under some circumstances, completely rewrite
portions of themselves to the extent of processing touch data from
the tongue as visual data?

All of it means, in the end, that we are beginning to know enough to
know how much we don't know. And the brain, of course, is not the
consciousness (and we really aren't sure how much it contributes to
it).

No one alive today will live long enough to see a successful copying
of the human mind.

--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your bitch, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock


This gives a good overview:

http://www.geek.com/scientists-want-...eer-the-brain/

"The concept of reverse engineering the human brain seems to be
intriguing scientists and electrical engineers alike. The idea behind
reverse engineering is to dissect the brain in extremely thin layers
and then photograph each section. The tools used today, and
particularly in the future, will be sophisticated enough to examine
the behavior of individual neurons and synapses. Then the programming
of the brain can hopefully be ascertained. The biggest proponent of
reverse-engineering the brain is Ray Kurzweil, who believes that the
secrets of the brain will be revealed within the next two decades."


Color me a little skeptical as to how much we can learn from examining a
dead brain. And we certainly can't slice up a live one to examine.

--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your bitch, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock
 




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