NASA Back to Moon by 2018 - But WHY ?

Monte Davis ) wrote:
: wrote:

: Why does NASA, ESA, and all the other SA's still clunk around
: stuck in the Industrial Era of the pre-1970's, still thinking like
: people in the previous millenium, instead of just getting the HELL out
: of the way, stepping aside, and make room for the rest of the world
: (i.e. private sector) to run circles around it at 1/1000 the cost, and
: infinity times the gain?

: Heck, why even wait for that? Let's all just flap our arms and wish
: real hard.

: Look, I'm very happy to see alt.space developing, and wish success to
: every entrepreneur involved. But private enterprise isn't magic, and
: -- despite the ideological frothing -- NASA is actually well down the
: list of obstacles to private space ventures, over the last 25 years as
: well as today.

: If you really believe there will be hundreds of private businesses
: operating on and around the moon 13 years from now, please share your
: stash.


I could not have said it better myself. These private space advocates act
like they're victims of the public space sector. Nothing could be further
from the truth.

Eric

I agree that our NASA needs to get seriously left in the moon-dust,
allowing the likes of private and certainly those efforts of China and
Russia to establish the lunar space elevator with the best ever CM/ISS
that's associated with their lunar space elevator.

Getting into orbiting the moon is actually more difficult that coasting
into the mutual gravity-well zone. However, from that point of getting
to/from the lunar surface isn't so easy.

Do the math upon what an item as having been dropped from just 2r (1738
km off the deck) is going to impact at. Especially if it's not having
been orbiting the moon but targeting the moon, as such it's going to
make a great deal of final velocity upon impact.

Not surprisingly, because I'm not nearly smart enough is why I can't
seem to locate an on-line terminal velocity calculator that'll accept
the moon gravity and environment as the basis for what's attracting a
given object. Obviously we know almost nothing of the
radon/argon/O2/sodium lunar atmosphere, and even less upon deploying
relatively small probes as safely upon or into the moon. We don't seem
to have viable fly-by-rocket landers for even getting robotics safely
onto the lunar deck, at least there absolutely not available R&D film
showing how any prototype craft might actually achieve the task of a
controlled de-orbit and down-range soft landing.
~

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
War is war, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been
the very reason of having to deal with the likes of others that haven't
been playing by whatever rules, such as GW Bush.

B1ackwater wrote:


OK*-*the*question*is*"WHY*?".*A*few*people*for*a*few*d ays*at
a*time*...*it's*just*not*worth*doing*(except*to*en rich*certain
aerospace*companies).

Bush has restarted the US space effort because a few years ago China
announced they were going to put a man on the moon and Mars, too.

The Chinese action was, itself, prompted by the American intention to
monopolise space in the strategic interests of the United States. China was
not going to allow that to happen.

In a sense, the American intention to dominate has provoked a space race.

Had the US just SHUT UP, there would be no problem.

steve wrote:


In a sense, the American intention to dominate has provoked a space race.

Had the US just SHUT UP, there would be no problem.



You don't understand how this works:
1.) You get campaign contributions from aerospace companies.
2.) You get elected.
3.) You have someone buy stock in those companies for you via a
pre-arranged "blind trust" that actually has near 20/20 vision.*
4.) You provoke a space race and make sure the companies you have stock
in are the ones who get to build things for it.
5.) While in office, you make money on the stocks.
6.) After you retire from office you become a consultant or lobbyist for
the aerospace industry. ;-)

* Under Reagan defense stocks would have been a pretty good bet. Under
the current administration, well....
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheney...last_1011.html

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:

:You don't understand how this works:

Neither do you. Get back to us when you learn to think with something
other than your ideological blindness.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Fred J. McCall,
Try two-faced if not three-faced ideological crapolla, as that's about
all such brown-nosed folks like "Pat Flannery" ever has to say upon
anything that's not his/her idea.

However, those remarks about the current and certainly previous and of
the next Skull and Bones administrations are surprisingly quite proper
and otherwise right on the mark.

1.) You get campaign contributions from aerospace companies.
2.) You get elected.
3.) You have someone buy stock in those companies for you via a
pre-arranged "blind trust" that actually has near 20/20 vision.*
4.) You provoke a space race and make sure the companies you have stock
in are the ones who get to build things for it.
5.) While in office, you make money on the stocks.
6.) After you retire from office you become a consultant or lobbyist for
the aerospace industry. ;-)
~

Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are
no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal
with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules,
such as GW Bush.
Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

Fred J. McCall wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote:

:You don't understand how this works:

Neither do you. Get back to us when you learn to think with something
other than your ideological blindness.



Remember how Henry Kissinger was responsible for opening up China/U.S.
relations?:
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11103
Then of course there are the Bush family's ties to China:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...scott-bush.htm
Bill Frist's "blind trust":
http://www.leadingthecharge.com/stor...s-0080426.html
And the Medicare bill and its lobbyists:
http://www.badfaithinsurance.org/reference/HL/0097a.htm

"Both the pharmaceutical and managed care industries relied heavily on
lobbyists with “revolving door” connections. In all, 431 lobbyists
employed by the drug industry or HMOs – or 45 percent of all their
lobbyists – previously worked for the federal government. Among them
were 30 ex-U.S. senators and representatives – 18 Republicans and 12
Democrats.

*
At least 11 top staffers who left the Bush administration lobbied
for the drug industry and HMOs in 2003. White House and
administration insiders working as lobbyists on the Medicare bill
included several former top advisers to Bush, Vice President Dick
Cheney and Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary
Tommy Thompson.

*
The exodus from the administration has accelerated since Bush
signed the new Medicare law. At least four key Bush administration
officials – most notably Tom Scully, administrator of the Centers
for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) – have exited to help
industry clients benefit from the Medicare bill that they wrote or
promoted. Another six top congressional staffers at the center of
negotiations over the Medicare bill now lobby for drug companies
or HMOs.

*
The revolving door spins both ways. Three prominent drug industry
and HMO lobbyists have recently moved into senior health policy
positions at HHS. Another is now a spokesman for the Bush
campaign. And the lead White House negotiator on the Medicare bill
– presidential adviser Doug Badger – previously represented half a
dozen drug companies as a lobbyist.

*
Drug industry and HMO executives and lobbyists ranked among Bush’s
elite fundraisers. Twenty-one executives and lobbyists achieved
“Ranger” or “Pioneer” status by collecting at least $200,000 or
$100,000, respectively, for Bush in the 2000 or 2004 campaigns.
(In addition, two of presumptive Democratic nominee John Kerry’s
biggest backers were lobbyists on the drug industry payroll in 2003.)

“The revolving door between the White House and K Street has made the
Bush administration indistinguishable from the industry,” said Craig
Aaron, senior researcher for Public Citizen’s Congress Watch and lead
author of the report. “If it wasn’t bad enough that most of the key
negotiators working on the Medicare bill were preparing to cash in on K
Street as soon as it passed, Bush has brought in more drug industry and
HMO insiders to implement and promote this disastrous new law.” "

In fact, the revolving door scenario I outlined is not at all unusual,
but rather business as usual in Washington:
http://www.lobbyinginfo.org/

Pat

Fred J. McCall ) wrote:
: Pat Flannery wrote:

: :You don't understand how this works:

: Neither do you. Get back to us when you learn to think with something
: other than your ideological blindness.

Fred telling Pat how to think reminds me about the asshole telling the
brain that it is the most important organ of the body.

Eric

: --
: "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
: territory."
: --G. Behn

(Eric Chomko) wrote:

:Fred J. McCall ) wrote:
:: Pat Flannery wrote:
::
:: :You don't understand how this works:
::
:: Neither do you. Get back to us when you learn to think with something
:: other than your ideological blindness.
:
:Fred telling Pat how to think reminds me about the asshole telling the
:brain that it is the most important organ of the body.

This would be a better 'cut' if the joke didn't end with the 'asshole'
carrying the day.

I'd say what El Chimpo chiming in reminds me of, but I think there
have been enough scatological comments for one newsgroup.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Eric Chomko wrote:

: Neither do you. Get back to us when you learn to think with something
: other than your ideological blindness.

Fred telling Pat how to think reminds me about the asshole telling the
brain that it is the most important organ of the body.





You heard that Freddy boy? The Brain! THE BRAIN!
Now here is a man destined for great things once my Galactic Conquest is
completed!
Freddy, on the other hand will be working in the Imperial Restrooms,
removing the contorted bodies of my foes who have fallen prey to the old
Anal Viper lurking in the toilet or Electric Candiru hiding in the
urinal tricks. :-D

Pat