Is SR an Ether Theory?

After takin' a swig o' grog, The Ghost In The Machine belched out this bit o' wisdom:

http://www-src.lip6.fr/homepages/Ale.../autotools.pdf

I like this guy's style; it goes into nice detail on
what files depend on what tools. There certainly is a
lot in there, though -- probably because it evolved over
the years.

It is very nice slideshow covering autotools. I recommend it!

--
"Don't be evil." -- Google
"We don't agree with that." -- Bill Gates

wrote:

In article ,
Maverick wrote:

wrote:

snip

Yeah, but when? So far all of the OpenVMS stuff is buried pretty deep
at HPs website.


You missed my point. They will advertise the hardware, not the software.
If HP does what DEC used to do, they will provide the software as
one of the options. Please note my use of the word "if"; I do not
know how HP does their business.


I think it would be a mistake not to advertise their software in
conjunction with their hardware.


Sigh! It isn't the software they are selling; it is the hardware.
DEC never sold an operating system with the hardware as the option.

Sure it is... uh-huh.



It will show buyers that there trully
is an alternative. I remember the old DEC ads well, and they did
advertise both hardware and the system software together.


You don't remember quite correctly. The software was the add-on--
an option. The primary business, and income, of DEC was the hardware,
not software; I'll put it even more strongly...NEVER the software.


Sorry, but that is just your misperception. Hardware and software,
especially operating systems, go hand in hand. Any other belief system
is grossly ignorant.


HP from just observation seems to do advertising very poorly on big
ticket items.


Big ticket items aren't advertised in the same manner as retail
appliances are.

That is their mistake and is the mistake.



And those that know how to pump out boxes are of a
different breed altogether, but they don't know what to do with
big-ticket-items. Selling printers and PCs is one thing, but selling
higher priced items requires a different avenue.


Exactly. Thus, you won't see ads like you see for pineapples.


But all products, no matter what, need advertising.


It seems that HP
doesn't know how to advertise their high priced computing equipment.


Manufacturers never advertised in the manner you are expecting.


Of course they have. Look at Sun microsystems page. Everything you
want is there for the look-see.
Same with SGI but they have sat on their laurels and have done nothing
to improve their product line.
If I want to look at AIX + Power products at IBM it is easy to do. But
not OpenVMS... it is well buried at HPs website and almost impossible to
find. Why is that?


Times have changed, so it remains to be seen how they will do it.


Times haven't changed. You are just suffering from PCitis where
you expect every aspect of the computing biz to emulate Mic****.

Huh? I've used big iron before PCs ever came out. PCs aren't one of my
favorite machines and M$ is just another dishonest company.
If HP ever yanks their collective head out of their arse, they just
might be able to sell some systems properly instead of hiding behind
their PC front page of "HP recommends Windows Vista" garbage.

wrote:

In article ,
Maverick wrote:

wrote:


Wrong that DEC caught M$ on infringements?


Infringements of what?

Of VMS. M$ hired David Cutler to continue and finish development of NT.
DEC found their code inside NT. Hence the infringement and settlement
out of court.


I never heard of that. In fact, M$ funded DEC to do NT monitor
work.


It is fact.
I can't help it if you never heard of it. There was a court case and M$
settled.


Obvioulsy, M$ knew they didn't have a chance at that
point but to settle.


I think you have your scenarios wrong.


No, I do not. M$ was about to get screwed good.
But slippery Bill got out of that one by settling out of court.

In , on 03/27/2007
at 05:46 PM, "T Wake" said:

We've noticed. Your selfishness is always pretty obvious.

In this case he's right; threading is done by References. Sorting by
Subject is not threading and will mix articles from unrelated threads.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to

In article ,
Maverick wrote:
wrote:

In article ,
Maverick wrote:

wrote:

snip

Yeah, but when? So far all of the OpenVMS stuff is buried pretty deep
at HPs website.


You missed my point. They will advertise the hardware, not the software.
If HP does what DEC used to do, they will provide the software as
one of the options. Please note my use of the word "if"; I do not
know how HP does their business.


I think it would be a mistake not to advertise their software in
conjunction with their hardware.


Sigh! It isn't the software they are selling; it is the hardware.
DEC never sold an operating system with the hardware as the option.

Sure it is... uh-huh.

Well, you can be a snot or you can use this opportunity to learn.
It is your decision.




It will show buyers that there trully
is an alternative. I remember the old DEC ads well, and they did
advertise both hardware and the system software together.


You don't remember quite correctly. The software was the add-on--
an option. The primary business, and income, of DEC was the hardware,
not software; I'll put it even more strongly...NEVER the software.


Sorry, but that is just your misperception. Hardware and software,
especially operating systems, go hand in hand. Any other belief system
is grossly ignorant.

You do not know what you are talking about.



HP from just observation seems to do advertising very poorly on big
ticket items.


Big ticket items aren't advertised in the same manner as retail
appliances are.

That is their mistake and is the mistake.

We aren't talking about the computing biz that has been infected
with PCitis.




And those that know how to pump out boxes are of a
different breed altogether, but they don't know what to do with
big-ticket-items. Selling printers and PCs is one thing, but selling
higher priced items requires a different avenue.


Exactly. Thus, you won't see ads like you see for pineapples.


But all products, no matter what, need advertising.

No, they do not.



It seems that HP
doesn't know how to advertise their high priced computing equipment.


Manufacturers never advertised in the manner you are expecting.


Of course they have. Look at Sun microsystems page. Everything you
want is there for the look-see.
Same with SGI but they have sat on their laurels and have done nothing
to improve their product line.
If I want to look at AIX + Power products at IBM it is easy to do. But
not OpenVMS... it is well buried at HPs website and almost impossible to
find. Why is that?

Becuase their core business is not selling an operating system.



Times have changed, so it remains to be seen how they will do it.


Times haven't changed. You are just suffering from PCitis where
you expect every aspect of the computing biz to emulate Mic****.

Huh? I've used big iron before PCs ever came out.

I understand you used them. You didn't make them.

PCs aren't one of my
favorite machines and M$ is just another dishonest company.
If HP ever yanks their collective head out of their arse, they just
might be able to sell some systems properly instead of hiding behind
their PC front page of "HP recommends Windows Vista" garbage.


That is PC business which is a very small niche of the computing
business.


/BAH

In article ,
Maverick wrote:
wrote:

In article ,
Maverick wrote:

wrote:


Wrong that DEC caught M$ on infringements?


Infringements of what?

Of VMS. M$ hired David Cutler to continue and finish development of NT.
DEC found their code inside NT. Hence the infringement and settlement
out of court.


I never heard of that. In fact, M$ funded DEC to do NT monitor
work.


It is fact.
I can't help it if you never heard of it.

I'll check. I don't remember JMF ever talking about it.

There was a court case and M$
settled.

What was the case number?



Obvioulsy, M$ knew they didn't have a chance at that
point but to settle.


I think you have your scenarios wrong.


No, I do not. M$ was about to get screwed good.
But slippery Bill got out of that one by settling out of court.

That isn't the scenario that went on over here.

/BAH

wrote:

In article ,
Maverick wrote:

wrote:


In article ,
Maverick wrote:


wrote:

snip

Yeah, but when? So far all of the OpenVMS stuff is buried pretty deep
at HPs website.


You missed my point. They will advertise the hardware, not the software.
If HP does what DEC used to do, they will provide the software as
one of the options. Please note my use of the word "if"; I do not
know how HP does their business.


I think it would be a mistake not to advertise their software in
conjunction with their hardware.


Sigh! It isn't the software they are selling; it is the hardware.
DEC never sold an operating system with the hardware as the option.

Sure it is... uh-huh.


Well, you can be a snot or you can use this opportunity to learn.
It is your decision.

I think it is you that has a lot to learn about business decisions.
Look at the morons that ran DEC and sold off to Compaq. Then the idiots
at Compaq ran their company into the ground pushing PCs and ignoring
their big cash cow. Yep... real smart move there.




It will show buyers that there trully
is an alternative. I remember the old DEC ads well, and they did
advertise both hardware and the system software together.


You don't remember quite correctly. The software was the add-on--
an option. The primary business, and income, of DEC was the hardware,
not software; I'll put it even more strongly...NEVER the software.


Sorry, but that is just your misperception. Hardware and software,
especially operating systems, go hand in hand. Any other belief system
is grossly ignorant.


You do not know what you are talking about.


Well, you sure don't know either. Are you in business? I doubt it.


HP from just observation seems to do advertising very poorly on big
ticket items.


Big ticket items aren't advertised in the same manner as retail
appliances are.

That is their mistake and is the mistake.


We aren't talking about the computing biz that has been infected
with PCitis.

Of course, and I'm talking about making a huge investments in research
and development of both a new Itanium2 chip and the porting of OpenVMS
to it. Sooner or later you have to sell these systems to recoup your
investments or go broke. This one was one that the HP family was dead
set against because they knew of the conflict of interest inside the
company that would ensue... mainly HP-UX vs. OpenVMS and PA-RISC vs.
Itanium2.




And those that know how to pump out boxes are of a
different breed altogether, but they don't know what to do with
big-ticket-items. Selling printers and PCs is one thing, but selling
higher priced items requires a different avenue.


Exactly. Thus, you won't see ads like you see for pineapples.


But all products, no matter what, need advertising.


No, they do not.

An absurd statement, believe me.
IBM advertises as does HP advertises their HP-UX. But not OpenVMS... why?
Yet OpenVMS has always been more secure than any UNIX.



It seems that HP
doesn't know how to advertise their high priced computing equipment.


Manufacturers never advertised in the manner you are expecting.


Of course they have. Look at Sun microsystems page. Everything you
want is there for the look-see.
Same with SGI but they have sat on their laurels and have done nothing
to improve their product line.
If I want to look at AIX + Power products at IBM it is easy to do. But
not OpenVMS... it is well buried at HPs website and almost impossible to
find. Why is that?


Becuase their core business is not selling an operating system.


IBMs core business pretty much rests on support services and hardware
contracts. I've seen how much they make on each system, which is what
constitutes their main cash flow.
Same for the old DEC. They had a huge cash cow with the gov. on
software support and hardware support contracts, where the software
contracts were actually larger than the hardware contracts.


Times have changed, so it remains to be seen how they will do it.


Times haven't changed. You are just suffering from PCitis where
you expect every aspect of the computing biz to emulate Mic****.


Huh? I've used big iron before PCs ever came out.


I understand you used them. You didn't make them.

So?



PCs aren't one of my
favorite machines and M$ is just another dishonest company.
If HP ever yanks their collective head out of their arse, they just
might be able to sell some systems properly instead of hiding behind
their PC front page of "HP recommends Windows Vista" garbage.



That is PC business which is a very small niche of the computing
business.


It isn't a small niche. The marketdroids see this as moving huge
quantities of boxes out the door. It is their limited viewpoint that is
disgusting really. HP as a company is much better than that, but
unfortunately they hired the old ex-Avon lady known as Carly Fiorina to
handle business and should have never hired her... which was what the
Hewlett family was again dead set against. They knew better.

wrote:

In article ,
Maverick wrote:

wrote:


In article ,
Maverick wrote:


wrote:



Wrong that DEC caught M$ on infringements?


Infringements of what?

Of VMS. M$ hired David Cutler to continue and finish development of NT.
DEC found their code inside NT. Hence the infringement and settlement
out of court.


I never heard of that. In fact, M$ funded DEC to do NT monitor
work.


It is fact.
I can't help it if you never heard of it.


I'll check. I don't remember JMF ever talking about it.


Check the comp.os.vms newsgroup archives for the answer or go to the
Seattle public library and search their news archives. It is in there.


There was a court case and M$
settled.


What was the case number?


How should I know?
It was in the news.


Obvioulsy, M$ knew they didn't have a chance at that
point but to settle.


I think you have your scenarios wrong.


No, I do not. M$ was about to get screwed good.
But slippery Bill got out of that one by settling out of court.


That isn't the scenario that went on over here.


As if you know, eh?

It is public record... go read the news.

In article ,
Maverick wrote:
wrote:
snip

Well, you can be a snot or you can use this opportunity to learn.
It is your decision.

I think it is you that has a lot to learn about business decisions.

Son, I was there. You were not.

snip

You do not know what you are talking about.


Well, you sure don't know either.

I did some of the work.
snip

/BAH

In article ,
Maverick wrote:
wrote:

That isn't the scenario that went on over here.


As if you know, eh?

AAMOF, my knowledge is what happened on the inside.


It is public record... go read the news.

So you don't have a case number. The news could be wrong.

/BAH