CEV & Foreign Participation, Why Not?

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in CEV/
Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

I work on Space Station projects at JSC. I have several amusing stories
to tell about working the the Russians, Germans and Japanese. I bet
they have similar stories to tell about working with Americans. But
overall, it has been rewarding on the personal level to work with them.
I suspect that the big picture level, we were better off by partnering
with ESA, JAXA, Roscomos etc. And I don't just mean that lack of
Shuttle flights.

Were there any official statements about why we declined partnership
with the other nations? Did any Congresscritter make significant
statements on the subject?

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:21:13 -0000, in a place far, far away, Robert
Love made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in CEV/
Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

Because they don't want to put another country on the critical path.

I work on Space Station projects at JSC. I have several amusing stories
to tell about working the the Russians, Germans and Japanese. I bet
they have similar stories to tell about working with Americans. But
overall, it has been rewarding on the personal level to work with them.
I suspect that the big picture level, we were better off by partnering
with ESA, JAXA, Roscomos etc.

You are.

Rand Simberg wrote:

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in CEV/
Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

Because they don't want to put another country on the critical path.

That worked out just terrible when they did that with the ISS.

Core Module, Soyuz, Progress, what a mistake!

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

wrote in
oups.com:


Rand Simberg wrote:

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in
CEV/ Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

Because they don't want to put another country on the critical path.

That worked out just terrible when they did that with the ISS.

Core Module, Soyuz, Progress, what a mistake!

Saved the ISS when Shuttle went down.

--Damon

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:33:42 -0500, in a place far, far away, Damon
Hill made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

wrote in
roups.com:


Rand Simberg wrote:

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in
CEV/ Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

Because they don't want to put another country on the critical path.

That worked out just terrible when they did that with the ISS.

Core Module, Soyuz, Progress, what a mistake!

Saved the ISS when Shuttle went down.

You say that like it's a good thing.

h (Rand Simberg) wrote in
:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:33:42 -0500, in a place far, far away, Damon
Hill made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

wrote in
groups.com:
\
Core Module, Soyuz, Progress, what a mistake!

Saved the ISS when Shuttle went down.

You say that like it's a good thing.


Yes, I do.

--Damon

In .com lifeform1@
charter.net wrote:

Rand Simberg wrote:

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in
CEV/ Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

Because they don't want to put another country on the critical path.

That worked out just terrible when they did that with the ISS.

Core Module, Soyuz, Progress, what a mistake!

I don't know that it was that big a mistake. My memory is that because
the Russian first flight was late, we used that as reason to cover our
own unpreparedness. We actually benefited from that aspect of it. They
also provided capabilities we didn't have even though they sometimes
charged heavily for them.

I thought at first not having a US propulsion capability was a big
mistake but now, don't the US controllers take a large role in
scheduling and using the Russian thrusters?

It seems like the Russians and Europeans will team up partly because
we're excluding them. They have culture and geography linking them
anyway but we seem to be helping them pair up.

Robert Love wrote:

It seems like the Russians and Europeans will team up partly because
we're excluding them. They have culture and geography linking them
anyway but we seem to be helping them pair up.


On the other side their future manned spacecraft cooperation
is troubled by apparently conflicting interests.

Russians want a LEO tourist craft more capable and tourist
friendly than Soyuz, hence 6-person winged Kliper.

Europeans need a much smaller [1] simple Moon [2] capsule.

Just imagine the compromise craft that pleases them all.

Regards,
NE

[1] Last time the Europeans committed to manned spaceflights
they declared their needs to half a man a year (the seventh
crew member of ISS was to be European/Japanese). The 4 person
capsule currently studied seems way to big anyway.

[2] Their motivation for building a new spacecraft is openly
declared not to fall behind US, which currently means a Moon
mission.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:49:17 +0200, in a place far, far away, New
European made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Robert Love wrote:

It seems like the Russians and Europeans will team up partly because
we're excluding them. They have culture and geography linking them
anyway but we seem to be helping them pair up.


On the other side their future manned spacecraft cooperation
is troubled by apparently conflicting interests.

Russians want a LEO tourist craft more capable and tourist
friendly than Soyuz, hence 6-person winged Kliper.

Europeans need a much smaller [1] simple Moon [2] capsule.

Just imagine the compromise craft that pleases them all.

Yes, since we know from experience how successful "compromise crafts
that please them all" (e.g., Shuttle) work out.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 02:56:19 -0000, in a place far, far away, Robert
Love made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

In .com lifeform1@
charter.net wrote:

Rand Simberg wrote:

So NASA has said "No" to European and other outside participation in
CEV/ Ares. Does anyone care to speculate why?

Because they don't want to put another country on the critical path.

That worked out just terrible when they did that with the ISS.

Core Module, Soyuz, Progress, what a mistake!

I don't know that it was that big a mistake.

The troll was attempting to be sarcastic.