Opportunity, the second Mars Explorer Rover is on the surface andtransmitting!

Craig Davidson wrote:


You do know that Spirit and Opportunity are unmanned spacecraft? With your
rant about dangers to crews I wasn't quite sure you knew that.

I am quite aware that they are unmanned. They are also second rate
vehicles which cost nearly a half-billion apiece and who useful
scientific yield is dubious. How will knowing whether bacteria ever
lived on Mars promote the General Welfare and Defend the Republic
against enemies foreign and domestic.

If a private company, raising its own capital wants to build survey
vehicles to scope out the planet, I say more power to them. It is their
money and their risk. But NASA is using MY money for a goal that I do
not share.

Here is the answer: Privatize. The only thing the Gummint has any
business spending your money and mine on, is national defense.


I wonder if they said that about Christopher Columbus. He lied you know.
Never did bring back spices from India. What a waste of dollars that could
be better spent in Spain. (or was it Portugal?)

Chris's voyage was funded by money stolen from Jews kicked out of Spain
in 1491, the year before. In short, Chris sailed on Loot. It so happened
that the voyage paid off for many. I fail to see how a voyage of men to
Mars can plausibly be thought to pay off for the rest of us. At least
NASA is not promising to bring back gold and spice.

By the way, Chris Baby sold the voyage on the grounds he was going to
China and India (as in Indies). He lied knowingly about the
circumference of the earth (Erathosthenes figure that out around 200
B.C.E). His voyage was a fraud that just happened to pay off. I cannot
see how a manned voyage to Mars can pay off (for those who can, let them
fund the effort with ThEIR money, not MINE), nor can I say any first
rate science coming out of his paltry un-manned mission (nearly one half
billion dollars per golf cart. Good God!).

Bob Kolker

Craig Davidson wrote:


You do know that Spirit and Opportunity are unmanned spacecraft? With your
rant about dangers to crews I wasn't quite sure you knew that.

I am quite aware that they are unmanned. They are also second rate
vehicles which cost nearly a half-billion apiece and who useful
scientific yield is dubious. How will knowing whether bacteria ever
lived on Mars promote the General Welfare and Defend the Republic
against enemies foreign and domestic.

If a private company, raising its own capital wants to build survey
vehicles to scope out the planet, I say more power to them. It is their
money and their risk. But NASA is using MY money for a goal that I do
not share.

Here is the answer: Privatize. The only thing the Gummint has any
business spending your money and mine on, is national defense.


I wonder if they said that about Christopher Columbus. He lied you know.
Never did bring back spices from India. What a waste of dollars that could
be better spent in Spain. (or was it Portugal?)

Chris's voyage was funded by money stolen from Jews kicked out of Spain
in 1491, the year before. In short, Chris sailed on Loot. It so happened
that the voyage paid off for many. I fail to see how a voyage of men to
Mars can plausibly be thought to pay off for the rest of us. At least
NASA is not promising to bring back gold and spice.

By the way, Chris Baby sold the voyage on the grounds he was going to
China and India (as in Indies). He lied knowingly about the
circumference of the earth (Erathosthenes figure that out around 200
B.C.E). His voyage was a fraud that just happened to pay off. I cannot
see how a manned voyage to Mars can pay off (for those who can, let them
fund the effort with ThEIR money, not MINE), nor can I say any first
rate science coming out of his paltry un-manned mission (nearly one half
billion dollars per golf cart. Good God!).

Bob Kolker

Chris L Peterson wrote:


Not in least because manned spaceflight is NASA, and unmanned spaceflight is
(mostly) JPL. And JPL is a very different thing (although NASA would like to
pretend otherwise).

It would be more accurate to say NASA is Morton Thiokol. Morton Thiokol
engineers warned their management to tell NASA not to fly Challanger in
1986. Both their managment and the NASA bosses told these honest
engineers to cool it if they valued their careers. We have a Teacher to
Launch into Space and all that. We can't dissapoint Ronnie and Congress
now, can we? Both the management of Morton Thiokol and the management at
NASA should be indicted or sued for homocidal negligence.

Bob Kolker

Chris L Peterson wrote:


Not in least because manned spaceflight is NASA, and unmanned spaceflight is
(mostly) JPL. And JPL is a very different thing (although NASA would like to
pretend otherwise).

It would be more accurate to say NASA is Morton Thiokol. Morton Thiokol
engineers warned their management to tell NASA not to fly Challanger in
1986. Both their managment and the NASA bosses told these honest
engineers to cool it if they valued their careers. We have a Teacher to
Launch into Space and all that. We can't dissapoint Ronnie and Congress
now, can we? Both the management of Morton Thiokol and the management at
NASA should be indicted or sued for homocidal negligence.

Bob Kolker

Chris L Peterson wrote:


Not in least because manned spaceflight is NASA, and unmanned spaceflight is
(mostly) JPL. And JPL is a very different thing (although NASA would like to
pretend otherwise).

It would be more accurate to say NASA is Morton Thiokol. Morton Thiokol
engineers warned their management to tell NASA not to fly Challanger in
1986. Both their managment and the NASA bosses told these honest
engineers to cool it if they valued their careers. We have a Teacher to
Launch into Space and all that. We can't dissapoint Ronnie and Congress
now, can we? Both the management of Morton Thiokol and the management at
NASA should be indicted or sued for homocidal negligence.

Bob Kolker

noVote wrote:

constantly works in CYA mode. Their arrogance and stupidity has already
lead to the distriction of two vehicles with the death of the crews.


You're right, accidents never happen outside of nasa... dumb ass!

Accidents happen, and the potential victims should be adequately
informed of the risks. NASA claimed a risk of disaster to be one in
tenthousand per orbiter. The statistics are more like one in twentyfive
to one in fifty.

Life is full of risk. Life -is- risk. The moral imperative is to be
honest with the persons puting their lives on the line. NASA lied.




Former employee, who got fired? Wife left you? Beaten and neglected as a
child? Bought too much .com stock? Disgruntled postal worker? Neo nazi?
What?.... Tell us?

None of the above. Never worked for NASA. I have not worked for a
gummint contractor since 1968. I got a my fill of that nearly forty
years ago. I am not disgruntled. I am appalled at the dishonesty and the
incompetence. If a private company wants to do that with -its- money,
then fine by me, but -my- pocket it being picked and I object to that.

I have a generic dislike for lying son's of bitches running a scam on
the tax paying public. Do you think it is o.k. to filch money on false
pretenses?

Bob Kolker

noVote wrote:

constantly works in CYA mode. Their arrogance and stupidity has already
lead to the distriction of two vehicles with the death of the crews.


You're right, accidents never happen outside of nasa... dumb ass!

Accidents happen, and the potential victims should be adequately
informed of the risks. NASA claimed a risk of disaster to be one in
tenthousand per orbiter. The statistics are more like one in twentyfive
to one in fifty.

Life is full of risk. Life -is- risk. The moral imperative is to be
honest with the persons puting their lives on the line. NASA lied.




Former employee, who got fired? Wife left you? Beaten and neglected as a
child? Bought too much .com stock? Disgruntled postal worker? Neo nazi?
What?.... Tell us?

None of the above. Never worked for NASA. I have not worked for a
gummint contractor since 1968. I got a my fill of that nearly forty
years ago. I am not disgruntled. I am appalled at the dishonesty and the
incompetence. If a private company wants to do that with -its- money,
then fine by me, but -my- pocket it being picked and I object to that.

I have a generic dislike for lying son's of bitches running a scam on
the tax paying public. Do you think it is o.k. to filch money on false
pretenses?

Bob Kolker

noVote wrote:

constantly works in CYA mode. Their arrogance and stupidity has already
lead to the distriction of two vehicles with the death of the crews.


You're right, accidents never happen outside of nasa... dumb ass!

Accidents happen, and the potential victims should be adequately
informed of the risks. NASA claimed a risk of disaster to be one in
tenthousand per orbiter. The statistics are more like one in twentyfive
to one in fifty.

Life is full of risk. Life -is- risk. The moral imperative is to be
honest with the persons puting their lives on the line. NASA lied.




Former employee, who got fired? Wife left you? Beaten and neglected as a
child? Bought too much .com stock? Disgruntled postal worker? Neo nazi?
What?.... Tell us?

None of the above. Never worked for NASA. I have not worked for a
gummint contractor since 1968. I got a my fill of that nearly forty
years ago. I am not disgruntled. I am appalled at the dishonesty and the
incompetence. If a private company wants to do that with -its- money,
then fine by me, but -my- pocket it being picked and I object to that.

I have a generic dislike for lying son's of bitches running a scam on
the tax paying public. Do you think it is o.k. to filch money on false
pretenses?

Bob Kolker

"Robert J. Kolker" wrote:


I am quite aware that they are unmanned. They are also second rate
vehicles which cost nearly a half-billion apiece and who useful
scientific yield is dubious. How will knowing whether bacteria ever
lived on Mars promote the General Welfare and Defend the Republic
against enemies foreign and domestic.


In more ways than you'll ever know Bob.

"Robert J. Kolker" wrote:


I am quite aware that they are unmanned. They are also second rate
vehicles which cost nearly a half-billion apiece and who useful
scientific yield is dubious. How will knowing whether bacteria ever
lived on Mars promote the General Welfare and Defend the Republic
against enemies foreign and domestic.


In more ways than you'll ever know Bob.