During the middle of the Eocene, about 40 million years ago...

In article ,
Peter Webb wrote:
Even building cars for all these needy, new commuters will further
deplete scarce metal resources

Scarce metal resources?

ROFL.

The only metal the slightest bit scarce in cars is a small amount of
platinum in the catalytic converter. By no stretch of the imagination could
(say) Iron or Aluminium be considered scarce; we have massive proven
resources of these and they are extremely common.

The only scarce part is the capacity to build more mines and smelters,
which may jog the markets for a while. Aluminium is also pretty energy-
intensive, so they will need that energy from somewhere.

If the best argument you come up with is that we are running out of metal to
build cars, you have no argument. We are not.

Rubber is a bigger obstacle to building more cars.

-- mrr

On Nov 11, 2:14*am, Morten Reistad wrote:

So, yes, available statistics tell that we are three years past
peak oil, and hardly anyone noticed.

The point is that we need to stop using fossil fuels yesterday to
avoid undesirable problems with the climate as the result of global
warming.

Yet we can't afford problems with our energy supply either.

That's why I think a proactive response is required, rather than
sitting around waiting for the market. The market hasn't prevented the
high unemployment that has been plaguing the world economy since about
the 1970s.

John Savard

On Nov 11, 1:24*am, "Peter Webb"
wrote:

The only metal the slightest bit scarce in cars is a small amount of
platinum in the catalytic converter. By no stretch of the imagination could
(say) Iron or Aluminium be considered scarce; we have massive proven
resources of these and they are extremely common.

Aluminum requires lots of energy to make it, but it can be made where
energy is cheap,

However, copper is becoming scarce enough that people are starting to
steal scrap copper even in first-world countries:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11...bandoned-home/

John Savard

On Nov 11, 2:25*am, Morten Reistad wrote:

France does the reprocessing, and they are now building a string
of nuclear reactors in Mexico to feed the US market for electricity.

So, parts of the US will soon have dependable, cheap electricity.
Thanks to France and Mexico. Who will make a killing in the markets.

I don't know if California will _ever_ have dependable, cheap
electricity. Since a California governor enacted a law forcing
companies selling electricity to California to continue providing
electricity to an _insolvent_ utility there, instead of securing the
supply of electricity to Californians in an honest way - by paying for
it in advance with the taxpayer's money if need be, or at least
supplying guarantees backed by the taxpayer's money - while people in
Texas and Arizona might get dependable electricity from Mexico,
California is likely to be branded as a thief with which it is not
worthwhile to do business for a long time to come.

However, "cheap" electricity from Mexico is an illusion, just like
"cheap" goods from China. Yes, they're cheap to the _individuals_
purchasing them, because individuals don't face additional marginal
costs when spending the same number of dollars on imported goods
instead of American-made goods.

But the country as a whole is poorer; people are left idle who could
be working productively - but who can't be allowed to have jobs,
because then they would buy more imports, and that would lead to more
money being spent on imports than America earns on exports.

Only by tightly controlling imports with high tariffs would America be
free, without the danger of going into debt from a negative balance of
trade, to stimulate the economy as required to achieve full
employment.

John Savard

"Quadibloc" wrote:

However, copper is becoming scarce enough that people are starting to
steal scrap copper even in first-world countries:


http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11...pper-while-str
ipping-abandoned-home/

Indeed, it occurred in our town just 3 weeks ago:
http://www.themissinglist.co.uk/poli...-transformers-
causing-power-cut-westwood-lane-wigan

"David M" wrote in message
...
| "Quadibloc" wrote:
|
| However, copper is becoming scarce enough that people are starting to
| steal scrap copper even in first-world countries:
|
|
|
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11...pper-while-str
| ipping-abandoned-home/
|
| Indeed, it occurred in our town just 3 weeks ago:
|
http://www.themissinglist.co.uk/poli...-transformers-
| causing-power-cut-westwood-lane-wigan
|
Savard said "first-world countries".
Wigan is well north of and west of the M25, almost in Ireland, therefore
second world.

On Nov 12, 6:58*am, "Androcles"
wrote:

Wigan is well north of and west of the M25, almost in Ireland, therefore
second world.

A famous English author wrote of a journey to Wigan Pier... I don't
know if that would confirm your claim of the area being socialist, but
traditionally the entire UK is located in the "first world". Just as
Texas, New Jersey, and even the Appalachians are - or Newfoundland.

John Savard

On Nov 12, 3:57*pm, Quadibloc wrote:s English

A famous English author wrote of a journey to Wigan Pier... I don't
know if that would confirm your claim of the area being socialist, but
traditionally the entire UK is located in the "first world". Just as
Texas, New Jersey, and even the Appalachians are - or Newfoundland.

John

In the interests of fair play you should understand that the UK is
divided completely arbitrarily (and half jokingly) between the snobby
south and anywhere north of the Capital's circular M25 motorway.

Historically the North and Midlands of England were highly
industrialised compared with southern England. Many of the northern
accents were considered rather coarse. Which further alienated them
from the wealthy classes in the south which spoke the "Queen's
English". (as once spoken on early BBC radio and TV programmes)
Working for a living was once considered only for the middle and lower
classes.

The upper classes (those with Old Money meaning lots of land and
property) usually considered themselves well above any form of work.
Not even the management of their wealth and lands. This skewed
historical hangover has resulted in the national divide. Britain is
still riddled with class distinction despite the demise of the landed
gentry and the end of industrialisation.

There is about $2 worth of copper in a car - just electrical wiring.

Just because something is sometimes stolen doesn't mean its scarce, or even
expensive.

On Nov 13, 5:45*am, "Peter Webb" ostrich@au wrote:

You can't halt climate change. Its been happening for billions of years, and
will continue happening. It doesn't seem a problem at all; the earth's
climate has been warming for 150 years but nobody has yet identified any
problems as a result of this.

You haven't been hugging any dying trees, recently, have you?

http://www.horseandcountry.tv/news/s...climate-change

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/01/deadtrees/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28773860/

http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/...zon-trees.html

The one creature not endangered by global warming, so far, is the
bløødy ostrich!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE50S0OA20090129

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...eatwave-deaths

Etc.etc.