MSNBC (JimO) Scoops more Inside-NASA Shuttle Documents

20 million people were killed last year by drunk drivers. How was
simply being out on the street worth that? I just think way too much
is being made of seven people who died doing a job they volunteered
for. I doubt they would want us to pull back from space and quit. They
were not quitters.

Ahh they died on a government funded and run operation at the hands of some
careless managers who actively discouraged knowing of the dangers.

Thats very different than private folks dying by accident.

BTW please reference that 20 million figure

But it is about her. She has made a choice and wishes to fly and teach in
space. It's a mutual arrangement with NASA where both parties

No its nasa either admoitting the shuttle is a high risk development vehicle or
a operational spacecraft. The investigation proves the shuttle isnt
operationally safe.

NASA flying barb will lead to complacency and a return to normal atrtitude./

Whats wrong with barb flying on soyuz? Grea example of international
cooperation and have a broadcast from soyuz too..

funding would be the problem, send her on a crew rotation flight to the
station.

Ah, no there wasn't. Provide a cite for this, or withdraw the comment.

DF

There were newspaper reports but the links are dead. Even a congressman called
for this.

From: (Hallerb)

Ah, no there wasn't. Provide a cite for this, or withdraw the comment.

DF

There were newspaper reports but the links are dead. Even a congressman
called
for this.

If you can't back up your statement with verifiable facts, then withdraw the
comment.

DF

Of course I meant 20,000. The actual figure from the NTSB at
http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/s030318.htm is 17,448. Of course most of
these were innocent citizens going aobut their business. As you say,
that's certainly very different than astronauts who volunteered for
their job.
--
Gene Seibel
http://pad39a.com - Who valued life more highly, the aviators who
spent it on the art they loved, or these misers who doled it out like
pennies through their antlike days? I decided that if I could fly for
ten years before I was killed in a crash, it would be a worthwhile
trade for an ordinary lifetime. Charles Lindbergh






20 million people were killed last year by drunk drivers. How was
simply being out on the street worth that? I just think way too much
is being made of seven people who died doing a job they volunteered
for. I doubt they would want us to pull back from space and quit. They
were not quitters.

Ahh they died on a government funded and run operation at the hands of some
careless managers who actively discouraged knowing of the dangers.

Thats very different than private folks dying by accident.

BTW please reference that 20 million figure

In article , jeff findley wrote:

Barbara Morgan isn't an idiot. She's also a NASA astronaut, an actual
Mission Specialist. Unless you want to ban all Mission Specialists
from flying on the shuttle, you'd better re-think your statement.

More to the point, if memory serves she was already assigned to a
mission, sometime last year...

[dig, dig]

STS-118, ISS cargo & assembly flight, assignment made about the same
time (IIRC) they launched the new "Educator Astronaut" program. At time
of assignation, it was due to fly in 2004; current schedule has it
tentatively in mid-2005 (so even if it slips, it'll probably still be in
the next two years).

--
-Andrew Gray

From Craig Fink:
Stuf4 wrote:

Strange to think of all of Christa's and Barbara's old students who
now have kids of their own. I wonder if these parents will have them
watch live TV to see the latest teacher-in-space blast off.

We are all born into the world inocent and ignorant. Nothing is certain in
life execpt one thing. If we live long enough each and every one of us must
confront our own physical mortality. Usually, during the ages that a child
is in grades K-12. To each of us this reality come in a different form,
whether it is a relative or hero, every parent and every child must work
through this one certainty in life. It is how we work through these tragic
event that effects how the child will handle this event in the future, as
it will occur over and over again if the child has a long life.

To me, it seems that NASA has done exactly the wrong thing after the
Challenger Accident. Instead of explaining risks and rewards, and an
individual's right to accept these risk in life to do the things that they
believe are important, they pulled back from the frontier.

Barbara Morgan believe that what she is doing is important and is willing
to take the risk.

Barbara Morgan in 2004!!!!

http://www.spacekids.com/astronauts/morgan_000714.html

Barbara Morgan in 2004!!!!

I agree with the gist of what you are saying here, Craig. I'm glad to
see NASA preparing to fly Barbara Morgan, though my level of
enthusiasm pales in comparison to yours!

I'm ok with Barbara waiting until 2005, especially if NASA uses that
extra time to give her a safer ride.


~ CT

From Michael Grabois:
On 25 Sep 2003 20:52:33 -0700, (Stuf4) wrote:

From James Oberg:
Don't miss this 'insider document' report.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/970180.asp?0dm=C25AT

From crew photo caption:

"The core group for the next shuttle mission renames unchanged: from
left, Soichi Noguchi, commander Eileen Collins, Steve Robinson and Jim
Kelly. But the three other slots have been emptied to to make room for
those with specialized skills needed for the flight's new
responsibilities."


~ ~ ~ Rub text with lemon juice to reveal the non-PC caption ~ ...

"But the three other slots have been kept empty to minimize the number
of funerals in case NASA overlooked something else."

Man, you really had to work at being THIS big an asshole.

Of course, the other three slots were emptied because the Expedition 7 crew (or
at least 2/3 of them) are already on the Space Station and 114 won't be a crew
rotation mission, YOU STUPID ****!

As with the original caption in question, I am having difficulty
following the logic behind that statement (amidst the anger). Please
check your facts.

My understanding is that crew size for -114 is being limited due
primarily to safety concerns. Let's not forget that in the aftermath
of -51L, NASA didn't fly anything more than a crew of 5 until the
1990s!

In launch order:

STS-61A - Crew of 8 (incl civilian PS x3)
STS-61B - Crew of 7 (incl civilian PS x2)
STS-61C - Crew of 7 (incl member of Congress)
STS-51L - Crew of 7 (incl schoolteacher)

STS-26 - Crew of 5
STS-27 - Crew of 5
STS-29 - Crew of 5
STS-30 - Crew of 5
STS-28 - Crew of 5
STS-34 - Crew of 5
STS-33 - Crew of 5
STS-32 - Crew of 5
STS-36 - Crew of 5
STS-31 - Crew of 5
STS-41 - Crew of 5
STS-38 - Crew of 5

NASA didn't launch a crew larger than 5, nor was another civilian
payload specialist launched into orbit until *13* flights (!) after
Challenger.


There was no space station to confuse the issue back then.


~ CT

From Dave Fowler:
From: (Hallerb)

Ah, no there wasn't. Provide a cite for this, or withdraw the comment.

DF

There were newspaper reports but the links are dead. Even a congressman
called
for this.

If you can't back up your statement with verifiable facts, then withdraw the
comment.

Repost of statement at issue:

"Actually there was serious discussion about permanetely limiting the
flight crew to one or two to just fly the shuttle."

Many serious discussions occur privately behind closed doors with not
so much as a single note taken. Lack of support does not constitute
invalidation. I see no need for withdrawl, let alone harrassment.


~ CT

(Stuf4)

As with the original caption in question, I am having difficulty
following the logic behind that statement (amidst the anger). Please
check your facts.

Please check YOUR facts. And generally speaking, I think many, if not most
people here fail to follow anything that you claim to resemble logic.

My understanding is that crew size for -114 is being limited due
primarily to safety concerns.

As usual, your understanding is wrong. The current plan is for a crew of 6-7.

DF