Orion 80 mm ED Apo via Zeiss Telementor 63/840

Does he carry the ED80?

Tom


As I said: "I believe these
scopes are scopes he received from Synta to sell."

1. From Markus's original post:

"Today I received my first 3 samples Orion 80 mm ED Apos and could
already test them."

2. If you take the time to checkout the APM-Telescopes Germany website you
will find they (Markus) are indeed the German Synta dealer.

I remember that when the Orion ED80 first came out, Markus had said that he too
was going the sell them. I finally found the link to the S.A.A. post where he
says that he will be getting some samples:

"Date: 2003-08-27 08:32:55 PST

Valery,

I think nobody have to worry for his business about that Orion 80 mm
Apo, why ? Simply it is a matter of fact that it is a Synta Technology
Product and every single dealer who selling Synta telescopes since years
knows the problems they have in most achromats : zones, spherical
aberration, decentering ( coma/astigmatism). Only a few coming out from
many with superb optics. Now if Synta cannot do a good job on a
achromat, do you really expect they doing a better job on a very low
priced ED Apo ? I doubt this for 100%.
So first samples who went in the market are made better to get good
reviews, but when the containers start to ship, chunk like before have
been loadet , you bet with me about that ??????

BTW: getting that scopes in next month for sale, too.

Markus"



http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Or...astro.amateur&
hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=sci.astro.amateur&safe=off&selm=42bdf2f410 4e9cb0f
363bd1fb16a17c3.30545%40mygate.mailgate.org&rnum=3 "

If the link is too long, do a google search on S.A.A. for "Orion APO ludes"

------------------
So, as far as I can see, Markus is a Synta dealer who received 3 ED80's from
Synta for evaluation and who posted an honest evaluation.

Given Markus's extensive experience in evaluating and selling all levels of
scopes both new and used, I do not find it strange in the least that his
evaluation is far less positive than those who have evaluated far few scopes.

I am sure that if Roland Christen, Thomas Back and several others who post here
were to evaluate the ED 80 they would have similar remarks. These people know
what "color free", "well corrected" really means and know what it looks
like....

So rather than thinking the worst of Markus, I suggest rereading what Mrkus
wrote with the respect due a guy has probably looked through more different
scopes in his time than all this group combined, save maybe a few....

Jon Isaacs

Does he carry the ED80?

Tom


As I said: "I believe these
scopes are scopes he received from Synta to sell."

1. From Markus's original post:

"Today I received my first 3 samples Orion 80 mm ED Apos and could
already test them."

2. If you take the time to checkout the APM-Telescopes Germany website you
will find they (Markus) are indeed the German Synta dealer.

I remember that when the Orion ED80 first came out, Markus had said that he too
was going the sell them. I finally found the link to the S.A.A. post where he
says that he will be getting some samples:

"Date: 2003-08-27 08:32:55 PST

Valery,

I think nobody have to worry for his business about that Orion 80 mm
Apo, why ? Simply it is a matter of fact that it is a Synta Technology
Product and every single dealer who selling Synta telescopes since years
knows the problems they have in most achromats : zones, spherical
aberration, decentering ( coma/astigmatism). Only a few coming out from
many with superb optics. Now if Synta cannot do a good job on a
achromat, do you really expect they doing a better job on a very low
priced ED Apo ? I doubt this for 100%.
So first samples who went in the market are made better to get good
reviews, but when the containers start to ship, chunk like before have
been loadet , you bet with me about that ??????

BTW: getting that scopes in next month for sale, too.

Markus"



http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Or...astro.amateur&
hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=sci.astro.amateur&safe=off&selm=42bdf2f410 4e9cb0f
363bd1fb16a17c3.30545%40mygate.mailgate.org&rnum=3 "

If the link is too long, do a google search on S.A.A. for "Orion APO ludes"

------------------
So, as far as I can see, Markus is a Synta dealer who received 3 ED80's from
Synta for evaluation and who posted an honest evaluation.

Given Markus's extensive experience in evaluating and selling all levels of
scopes both new and used, I do not find it strange in the least that his
evaluation is far less positive than those who have evaluated far few scopes.

I am sure that if Roland Christen, Thomas Back and several others who post here
were to evaluate the ED 80 they would have similar remarks. These people know
what "color free", "well corrected" really means and know what it looks
like....

So rather than thinking the worst of Markus, I suggest rereading what Mrkus
wrote with the respect due a guy has probably looked through more different
scopes in his time than all this group combined, save maybe a few....

Jon Isaacs

Does he carry the ED80?

Tom


As I said: "I believe these
scopes are scopes he received from Synta to sell."

1. From Markus's original post:

"Today I received my first 3 samples Orion 80 mm ED Apos and could
already test them."

2. If you take the time to checkout the APM-Telescopes Germany website you
will find they (Markus) are indeed the German Synta dealer.

I remember that when the Orion ED80 first came out, Markus had said that he too
was going the sell them. I finally found the link to the S.A.A. post where he
says that he will be getting some samples:

"Date: 2003-08-27 08:32:55 PST

Valery,

I think nobody have to worry for his business about that Orion 80 mm
Apo, why ? Simply it is a matter of fact that it is a Synta Technology
Product and every single dealer who selling Synta telescopes since years
knows the problems they have in most achromats : zones, spherical
aberration, decentering ( coma/astigmatism). Only a few coming out from
many with superb optics. Now if Synta cannot do a good job on a
achromat, do you really expect they doing a better job on a very low
priced ED Apo ? I doubt this for 100%.
So first samples who went in the market are made better to get good
reviews, but when the containers start to ship, chunk like before have
been loadet , you bet with me about that ??????

BTW: getting that scopes in next month for sale, too.

Markus"



http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Or...astro.amateur&
hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=sci.astro.amateur&safe=off&selm=42bdf2f410 4e9cb0f
363bd1fb16a17c3.30545%40mygate.mailgate.org&rnum=3 "

If the link is too long, do a google search on S.A.A. for "Orion APO ludes"

------------------
So, as far as I can see, Markus is a Synta dealer who received 3 ED80's from
Synta for evaluation and who posted an honest evaluation.

Given Markus's extensive experience in evaluating and selling all levels of
scopes both new and used, I do not find it strange in the least that his
evaluation is far less positive than those who have evaluated far few scopes.

I am sure that if Roland Christen, Thomas Back and several others who post here
were to evaluate the ED 80 they would have similar remarks. These people know
what "color free", "well corrected" really means and know what it looks
like....

So rather than thinking the worst of Markus, I suggest rereading what Mrkus
wrote with the respect due a guy has probably looked through more different
scopes in his time than all this group combined, save maybe a few....

Jon Isaacs

That's really a little harsh, Markus sells Synta scopes in Germany. It
would be refreshing to see a balanced review from Orion about there own
products. Markus has given similiar objective +/- evaluations about other
scopes he sells, when have you ever seen Orion do that?

BTW Markus does not, to my knowledge, sell Televues. Have you ever seen
Orion point anyone to scopes they don't sell.

Jim

"Tom Hole earthlink.net" tomhole@NOSPAM wrote in message
...
Markus,

Thanks for the review.

Maybe Orion can return the favor and post a review of some of your
products.

Clear skies,

Tom

"Markus Ludes" wrote in message
news:fd5bf00f8d41fbccc6b3259b1816faf7.30545@mygate .mailgate.org...
Hi Everybody

Today I received my first 3 samples Orion 80 mm ED Apos and could
already test them. I would like to receive some feedback from customers
who already owns it.
In almost any review I know of today about the Orion 80 mm ED I read its
colorfree and of high optical quality.

I dont know the telescopes the owners have reported about, I dont know
if something changed in the design and quality now where the production
seems to run, but here is what I found.

That's really a little harsh, Markus sells Synta scopes in Germany. It
would be refreshing to see a balanced review from Orion about there own
products. Markus has given similiar objective +/- evaluations about other
scopes he sells, when have you ever seen Orion do that?

BTW Markus does not, to my knowledge, sell Televues. Have you ever seen
Orion point anyone to scopes they don't sell.

Jim

"Tom Hole earthlink.net" tomhole@NOSPAM wrote in message
...
Markus,

Thanks for the review.

Maybe Orion can return the favor and post a review of some of your
products.

Clear skies,

Tom

"Markus Ludes" wrote in message
news:fd5bf00f8d41fbccc6b3259b1816faf7.30545@mygate .mailgate.org...
Hi Everybody

Today I received my first 3 samples Orion 80 mm ED Apos and could
already test them. I would like to receive some feedback from customers
who already owns it.
In almost any review I know of today about the Orion 80 mm ED I read its
colorfree and of high optical quality.

I dont know the telescopes the owners have reported about, I dont know
if something changed in the design and quality now where the production
seems to run, but here is what I found.

That's really a little harsh, Markus sells Synta scopes in Germany. It
would be refreshing to see a balanced review from Orion about there own
products. Markus has given similiar objective +/- evaluations about other
scopes he sells, when have you ever seen Orion do that?

BTW Markus does not, to my knowledge, sell Televues. Have you ever seen
Orion point anyone to scopes they don't sell.

Jim

"Tom Hole earthlink.net" tomhole@NOSPAM wrote in message
...
Markus,

Thanks for the review.

Maybe Orion can return the favor and post a review of some of your
products.

Clear skies,

Tom

"Markus Ludes" wrote in message
news:fd5bf00f8d41fbccc6b3259b1816faf7.30545@mygate .mailgate.org...
Hi Everybody

Today I received my first 3 samples Orion 80 mm ED Apos and could
already test them. I would like to receive some feedback from customers
who already owns it.
In almost any review I know of today about the Orion 80 mm ED I read its
colorfree and of high optical quality.

I dont know the telescopes the owners have reported about, I dont know
if something changed in the design and quality now where the production
seems to run, but here is what I found.

"Markus Ludes" wrote in message news:fd5bf00f8d41fbccc6b3259b1816faf7.30545@mygat e.mailgate.org...

To find out how the colorcorrection is against a achromat, I took now a
Skywatcher Achromat 102F/1000 and made several masks. Doing a Mask with
60 mm , the Skywatcher offers a bit better colorcorrection, doing a mask
with 80 mm the Skywatcher was a bit worser.
The best matched the Mask of 70 mm , than my eyes saw about same level
of colorcorrection as in the 80 mm ED. This means estimated by huma eyes
the colorcorrection in the orion 80F/7.5 ED Apo is about equal to a 70
mm F/14 achromatic refractor.

This does mean, that Orion 80mm ED has about (80/70)x (14/7.5)^2=4 better
color correction, than equivalent (D=80mm F/D=7.5) achromat.

We should conclude, that relative color correction in these 80mm ED scopes
is the same as in Meade ED refractors, where color correction is about
4.5x better, than in equivalent achromat. If a 80mm ED shows "less" colors
than ,say, Meade 4" F/9 ED, than this is purely threshold effect.

All in all, Orion ED 80mm is an entry level APO - about the same, as Meade ED
APOs. These days such color correction can be considered as semi-apo.

However, I can exclude tha trick with "establish reputation and then lower the
quality". If some scopes from China can be called semi-apo, while they are
plain achromats (Mergrez) or they can use such methods of color correction
"improvement" as internal aperture stop, then it is difficult to exclude
objective design change in worser side.


V.D.

Valery Deryuzhin.

"Markus Ludes" wrote in message news:fd5bf00f8d41fbccc6b3259b1816faf7.30545@mygat e.mailgate.org...

To find out how the colorcorrection is against a achromat, I took now a
Skywatcher Achromat 102F/1000 and made several masks. Doing a Mask with
60 mm , the Skywatcher offers a bit better colorcorrection, doing a mask
with 80 mm the Skywatcher was a bit worser.
The best matched the Mask of 70 mm , than my eyes saw about same level
of colorcorrection as in the 80 mm ED. This means estimated by huma eyes
the colorcorrection in the orion 80F/7.5 ED Apo is about equal to a 70
mm F/14 achromatic refractor.

This does mean, that Orion 80mm ED has about (80/70)x (14/7.5)^2=4 better
color correction, than equivalent (D=80mm F/D=7.5) achromat.

We should conclude, that relative color correction in these 80mm ED scopes
is the same as in Meade ED refractors, where color correction is about
4.5x better, than in equivalent achromat. If a 80mm ED shows "less" colors
than ,say, Meade 4" F/9 ED, than this is purely threshold effect.

All in all, Orion ED 80mm is an entry level APO - about the same, as Meade ED
APOs. These days such color correction can be considered as semi-apo.

However, I can exclude tha trick with "establish reputation and then lower the
quality". If some scopes from China can be called semi-apo, while they are
plain achromats (Mergrez) or they can use such methods of color correction
"improvement" as internal aperture stop, then it is difficult to exclude
objective design change in worser side.


V.D.

Valery Deryuzhin.

"Markus Ludes" wrote in message news:fd5bf00f8d41fbccc6b3259b1816faf7.30545@mygat e.mailgate.org...

To find out how the colorcorrection is against a achromat, I took now a
Skywatcher Achromat 102F/1000 and made several masks. Doing a Mask with
60 mm , the Skywatcher offers a bit better colorcorrection, doing a mask
with 80 mm the Skywatcher was a bit worser.
The best matched the Mask of 70 mm , than my eyes saw about same level
of colorcorrection as in the 80 mm ED. This means estimated by huma eyes
the colorcorrection in the orion 80F/7.5 ED Apo is about equal to a 70
mm F/14 achromatic refractor.

This does mean, that Orion 80mm ED has about (80/70)x (14/7.5)^2=4 better
color correction, than equivalent (D=80mm F/D=7.5) achromat.

We should conclude, that relative color correction in these 80mm ED scopes
is the same as in Meade ED refractors, where color correction is about
4.5x better, than in equivalent achromat. If a 80mm ED shows "less" colors
than ,say, Meade 4" F/9 ED, than this is purely threshold effect.

All in all, Orion ED 80mm is an entry level APO - about the same, as Meade ED
APOs. These days such color correction can be considered as semi-apo.

However, I can exclude tha trick with "establish reputation and then lower the
quality". If some scopes from China can be called semi-apo, while they are
plain achromats (Mergrez) or they can use such methods of color correction
"improvement" as internal aperture stop, then it is difficult to exclude
objective design change in worser side.


V.D.

Valery Deryuzhin.

(ValeryD) wrote in message . com...

However, I can exclude tha trick with "establish reputation and then lower the
quality". If some scopes from China can be called semi-apo, while they are
plain achromats (Mergrez) or they can use such methods of color correction
"improvement" as internal aperture stop, then it is difficult to exclude
objective design change in worser side.


V.D.

Must be read as "However, I CAN'T exclude a trick"


V.D.