what's your bet?

On Nov 20, 1:41*am, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:

Obviously the world globe and the information it contains is far too
advanced for you as it displays the correlation between 15 degrees of
geographical separation corresponding to 1 hour and all organised
around the daily rotation of the Earth (equator/poles) noting that 15
degrees* 24 = 360 degrees/24 hours.

Relativity freaks ,following Newton,never understood the difference
between the natural noon cycle and the 24 hour cycle as it tallies
with planetary dynamics for the transfer of the average 24 hour day to
daily rotation as a constant is simply a quirk of the average daily
rotations taken over an annual orbit.

* *To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true

The equatorial distance travelled at the equator is 1669.8 km per hour
while at 60 degree latitude the distance travelled is 837 km per
hour,this being a consequence of a rotating spherical Earth and the
effect of this rotation is appreciated in the rapid transition into
darkness at the equator and a longer twilight at the latitudes closer
to the poles.This simple cause and effect is easy enough to comprehend
for at any given moment,somewhere on the planet is transiting into the
circle of illumination and another place exiting it at the same speeds
reflecting rotation at a geometric and geographical rate of 15 degrees
per hour and 360 degrees/24 hours.

The problem is not just that you and your colleagues are
wrong,indoctrinated and what have you,it is the way you are wrong in
allowing yourselves any amount of choices hence you say I am
technically correct,and indeed I am with history in support, yet go on
to promote a nonsensical value that is simply a dishonor to the human
race in being essentially technically worthless for planetary
dynamics.An intelligent person would accept the Ra/Dec 23 hour 56
minute 04 second as a magnificent timekeeping framework while keeping
it separate from the raw astronomical cycles which produce the 24 hour
average and the calendar system instead of trying to fit a square peg
into a round hole by trying to force raw orbital dynamics into the
365/366 day calendar system.

The next problem is who do you call when such a disaster is visited on
the human race ?,I am well aware that the situation has now escaped
into the wider astronomical arena with particular focus on the most
immediate challenge of 'climate change',why it is not a scourge and
has always happened on the planet and why turning carbon dioxide into
a global temperature dial to the exclusion of all else is mass
intellectual suicide in terms of terrestrial sciences.

Yes I am technically correct that the planet turns at a rate of 15
degrees per hour and while I could certainly label all of you kooks
for arguing against the rotational rate per hour.I would much prefer
that people treat this as an immediate crisis,deal with it and move on
to productive things which balance interpretation with speculation.









to a
* *"moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
* *rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
* *verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian.

On Nov 20, 8:11*am, oriel36 wrote:

This simple cause and effect is easy enough to comprehend
for at any given moment,somewhere on the planet is transiting into the
circle of illumination and another place exiting it at the same speeds
reflecting rotation at a geometric and geographical rate of 15 degrees
per hour and 360 degrees/24 hours.

Circle of illumination? Oh, you mean the sun, good old Sol. Of course,
when you are referring to the Earth's rotation with respect to the
sun, the 15 degrees per hour and 360 degrees per 24 hours is perfectly
correct, and no one argues with you, so get over it. No need to
mention that ever again. We get it, we get it. In your own words you
have finally validated everything we have been saying, 360/24 with
respect to the circle of illumination... nice to see you so agreeable
for once.

However, the sun is not the only reference available, we can also use
the fixed stars, no? We then get a slightly different answer, with
slightly different but very valuable usage. There is no conflict here,
only different and equally valid points of reference.

Paul

On Nov 20, 5:27*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 1:41 am, Sam Wormley wrote:

* To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true to a
* "moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
* rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
* verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian.

Yes I am technically correct that the planet turns at a rate of 15
degrees per hour and while I could certainly label all of you kooks
for arguing against the rotational rate per hour.I would much prefer
that people treat this as an immediate crisis,deal with it and move on
to productive things which balance interpretation with speculation.

* *No, you are not correct! The earth rotate 15° in 59.836174 minutes
* *as any accurate gyro will confirm. If this was a legal case, it would
* *be Gerald against the World.

* *In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
* *confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
* *the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
* *to a meridian.

* *You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.


I have gone through this a thousand times in order to get people to
become familiar with the components which create the equable 24 hour
day and the 365/366 day calendar system out of the raw astronomical
cycles,each with a specific reference,the emergence of the Ra/Dec
convenience based on using timekeeping averages and the framework
based on the rotation of the constellations around Polaris ,what I
cannot do is convince people of the crisis which exists when trying
to reverse engineer the raw astronomical cycles from the timekeeping
averages through the R

On Nov 20, 5:27*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 1:41 am, Sam Wormley wrote:

* To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true to a
* "moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
* rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
* verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian.

Yes I am technically correct that the planet turns at a rate of 15
degrees per hour and while I could certainly label all of you kooks
for arguing against the rotational rate per hour.I would much prefer
that people treat this as an immediate crisis,deal with it and move on
to productive things which balance interpretation with speculation.

* *No, you are not correct! The earth rotate 15° in 59.836174 minutes
* *as any accurate gyro will confirm. If this was a legal case, it would
* *be Gerald against the World.


What exists is a small minority or rather,a cult which can argue
against the basic planetary facts of shape and rotation at a rate of
15 degrees per hour and that cult has now reached a stage where they
have become extremely offensive with their conclusion which links
carbon dioxide directly to global temperature just as at ground zero
they link the rotation of the constellations around Polaris directly
with daily rotation.

The equatorial Earth will rotate 1669.8 km every 15 degrees/1 hour and
an entire planetary circumference in 24 hours,any other value will
produce an offensive loss of geography and planetary facts,the only
thing left to consider is why would anybody,not just the major
organisations and institutions involved in astronomy,but anybody who
considers intelligence to be a wonderful human trait,would do what you
just did by giving a wrong correlation between 15 degrees and 1 hour
clock time.



* *In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
* *confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
* *the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
* *to a meridian.


I have been through the explanation a thousand times to get people
familiar with the difference between creating the average 24 hour day
and the calendar system from the raw astronomical cycles and the
appropriate references for daily and orbital timekeeping
demonstrating the insanity of a 'leap second' correction when
astronomers have been making 86 400 second correction every 4th year
for thousands of years based on the orbital correction.

I have presented with the utmost clarity that the 'sidereal time'
framework is a perfectly acceptable 365/366 day calendar convenience
except the utter stupidity which attaches planetary dynamics to it as
an excuse for dumping speculative junk into the celestial
arena,beginning with Isaac and ending with the subhuman 'bb' concept.


* *You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.

The only observable fact is the shock that people can knowingly ignore
the basic planetary facts found on any world globe which organises
planetary geography/geometry around the daily rotational
characteristics of the Earth.Do you all want to be called 'brilliant'
for continuing to pursue ideas which are on par with those of all
fundamentalist ideologies such as a flat Earth because that is exactly
what you get if you jump to a silly conclusion using the daily
rotation of the constellations around Polaris.

Again,the situation has filtered into the wider scientific arena where
nobody wants to go near a crisis which involves the notion that there
are choices involved in determining how long it takes the Earth to
turn once - there is no choice,the planet's day and night cycle, due
to independent rotation ,has a single value of 24 hours which is
arrived at in a very specific way that has nothing to do with a star
returning to a meridian daily.

The problem can be resolved easily and quickly but the real crisis is
now the complete lack of authority to deal with something no race of
people should have to endure - the loss of all planetary facts ,
dynamics and the consequences for terrestrial sciences or even Western
civilisation itself.

On Nov 20, 8:04*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:27 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 1:41 am, Sam Wormley wrote:
* To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true to a
* "moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
* rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
* verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian..
Yes I am technically correct that the planet turns at a rate of 15
degrees per hour and while I could certainly label all of you kooks
for arguing against the rotational rate per hour.I would much prefer
that people treat this as an immediate crisis,deal with it and move on
to productive things which balance interpretation with speculation.
* *No, you are not correct! The earth rotate 15° in 59.836174 minutes
* *as any accurate gyro will confirm. If this was a legal case, it would
* *be Gerald against the World.

What exists is a small minority or rather,a cult which can argue
against the basic planetary facts of shape and rotation at a rate of
15 degrees per hour and that cult has now reached a stage where they
have become extremely offensive with their conclusion which links
carbon dioxide directly to global temperature just as at ground zero
they link the rotation of the constellations around Polaris directly
with daily rotation.

The equatorial Earth will rotate 1669.8 km every 15 degrees/1 hour and
an entire planetary circumference in 24 hours,any other value will
produce an offensive loss of geography and planetary facts,the only
thing left to consider is why would anybody,not *just the major
organisations and institutions involved in astronomy,but anybody who
considers intelligence to be a wonderful human trait,would do what you
just did by giving a wrong correlation between 15 degrees and 1 hour
clock time.

* *In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
* *confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
* *the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
* *to a meridian.

I have been through the explanation a thousand times to get people
familiar with the difference between creating the average 24 hour day
and the calendar system from the raw astronomical cycles and the
appropriate references for *daily and orbital timekeeping
demonstrating the insanity of a 'leap second' correction when
astronomers have been making 86 400 second correction every 4th year
for thousands of years based on the orbital correction.

I have presented with the utmost clarity that the 'sidereal time'
framework is a perfectly acceptable *365/366 day calendar convenience
except the utter stupidity which attaches planetary dynamics to it as
an excuse for dumping speculative junk into the celestial
arena,beginning with Isaac and ending with the subhuman 'bb' concept.

* *You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.

The only observable fact is the shock that people can knowingly ignore
the basic planetary facts found on any world globe which organises
planetary geography/geometry around the daily rotational
characteristics of the Earth.Do you all want to be called 'brilliant'
for continuing to pursue ideas which are on par with those of all
fundamentalist ideologies such as a flat Earth because that is exactly
what you get if you jump to a silly conclusion using the daily
rotation of the constellations around Polaris.

Again,the situation has filtered into the wider scientific arena where
nobody wants to go near a crisis which involves the notion that there
are choices involved in determining how long it takes the Earth to
turn once - there is no choice,the planet's day and night cycle, due
to independent rotation ,has a single value of 24 hours which is
arrived at in a very specific way that has nothing to do with a star
returning to a meridian daily.

The problem can be resolved easily and quickly but the real crisis is
now the complete lack of authority to deal with something no race of
people should have to endure - the loss of all planetary facts ,
dynamics and the consequences for terrestrial sciences or even Western
civilisation itself.

* *In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
* *confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
* *the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
* *to a meridian.

* *You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.

* *How about I fly you over here to Ames, Iowa and together will time
* *the rotation of the earth about it's axis through my telescope with
* *a camera that records time to the nearest second.


What you are looking at is a homogenised timekeeping average which
lumps the average 24 hour day together with the 365/366 day calendar
system so that when you perceive the constellations to revolve about
Polaris you are isolated as a group in fixing the daily cycle to that
apparent constellational rotation and in direct conflict with the
almost sacred principles of structural and timekeeping astronomy which
does not.Even with the emergence of clocks themselves,the core
principle is the average day referenced to natural noon while the
orbital cycle is calculated against the stellar background -

"Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passeth the 12. Signes,
or makes an entire revolution in the Ecliptick in 365 days, 5 hours 49
min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon,
are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in
Astronomy." Huygens


* *An offer you cannot refuse. I'll provide you with lodging and food
* *and take you to a physics lecture or two.

* *No one is suffering a crisis, but you, Gerald. I'll arrange with
* *you, perhaps over a meal, to meet with ISU's astronomy faculty and
* *a few other knowledgeable folks, say a middle school algebra teacher
* *friend of mine.


I haven't met a single astronomer yet,what I have seen are people who
are absolutely convinced that astronomy is a magnification exercise at
night and truly believe that they are benefactors to humanity.My
goodness,what I wouldn't give to have a decent conversation with a
reasonably intelligent person instead of wading through this muck in
trying to put the cornerstone of astronomy back in place where people
actually have a point of departure for discussing planetary dynamics
and its effects.



* *The local Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at Iowa State has a $25k
* *grant for a new initiative project. Perhaps we could time things so
* *as you could be an integral part of a symposium of science education
* *for the challenged public.

* *Like I said, this is an opportunity you can't refuse and it should
* *provide the seed to solve the crisis festering in your head.

Don't make me laugh,the admission to astronomy and to be an astronomer
relies on either natural talent or effort,neither of which are
displayed here day in and day out.I do not look at the present
empirical stranglehold on my astronomical heritage but rather what
comes after now that the cult has run its course and can do no more
damage.

So,pick up a globe and spin it, all the information is there and it is
as simple as that -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...orld_globe.jpg

On Nov 20, 12:19 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:04 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:27 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 1:41 am, Sam Wormley wrote:
To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true to a
"moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian..
Yes I am technically correct that the planet turns at a rate of 15
degrees per hour and while I could certainly label all of you kooks
for arguing against the rotational rate per hour.I would much prefer
that people treat this as an immediate crisis,deal with it and move on
to productive things which balance interpretation with speculation.
No, you are not correct! The earth rotate 15° in 59.836174 minutes
as any accurate gyro will confirm. If this was a legal case, it would
be Gerald against the World.
What exists is a small minority or rather,a cult which can argue
against the basic planetary facts of shape and rotation at a rate of
15 degrees per hour and that cult has now reached a stage where they
have become extremely offensive with their conclusion which links
carbon dioxide directly to global temperature just as at ground zero
they link the rotation of the constellations around Polaris directly
with daily rotation.
The equatorial Earth will rotate 1669.8 km every 15 degrees/1 hour and
an entire planetary circumference in 24 hours,any other value will
produce an offensive loss of geography and planetary facts,the only
thing left to consider is why would anybody,not just the major
organisations and institutions involved in astronomy,but anybody who
considers intelligence to be a wonderful human trait,would do what you
just did by giving a wrong correlation between 15 degrees and 1 hour
clock time.
In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
to a meridian.
I have been through the explanation a thousand times to get people
familiar with the difference between creating the average 24 hour day
and the calendar system from the raw astronomical cycles and the
appropriate references for daily and orbital timekeeping
demonstrating the insanity of a 'leap second' correction when
astronomers have been making 86 400 second correction every 4th year
for thousands of years based on the orbital correction.
I have presented with the utmost clarity that the 'sidereal time'
framework is a perfectly acceptable 365/366 day calendar convenience
except the utter stupidity which attaches planetary dynamics to it as
an excuse for dumping speculative junk into the celestial
arena,beginning with Isaac and ending with the subhuman 'bb' concept.
You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.
The only observable fact is the shock that people can knowingly ignore
the basic planetary facts found on any world globe which organises
planetary geography/geometry around the daily rotational
characteristics of the Earth.Do you all want to be called 'brilliant'
for continuing to pursue ideas which are on par with those of all
fundamentalist ideologies such as a flat Earth because that is exactly
what you get if you jump to a silly conclusion using the daily
rotation of the constellations around Polaris.
Again,the situation has filtered into the wider scientific arena where
nobody wants to go near a crisis which involves the notion that there
are choices involved in determining how long it takes the Earth to
turn once - there is no choice,the planet's day and night cycle, due
to independent rotation ,has a single value of 24 hours which is
arrived at in a very specific way that has nothing to do with a star
returning to a meridian daily.
The problem can be resolved easily and quickly but the real crisis is
now the complete lack of authority to deal with something no race of
people should have to endure - the loss of all planetary facts ,
dynamics and the consequences for terrestrial sciences or even Western
civilisation itself.
In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
to a meridian.

You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.

How about I fly you over here to Ames, Iowa and together will time
the rotation of the earth about it's axis through my telescope with
a camera that records time to the nearest second.

What you are looking at is a homogenised timekeeping average which
lumps the average 24 hour day together with the 365/366 day calendar
system so that when you perceive the constellations to revolve about
Polaris you are isolated as a group in fixing the daily cycle to that
apparent constellational rotation and in direct conflict with the
almost sacred principles of structural and timekeeping astronomy which
does not.Even with the emergence of clocks themselves,the core
principle is the average day referenced to natural noon while the
orbital cycle is calculated against the stellar background -

"Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passeth the 12. Signes,
or makes an entire revolution in the Ecliptick in 365 days, 5 hours 49
min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon,
are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in
Astronomy." Huygens

An offer you cannot refuse. I'll provide you with lodging and food
and take you to a physics lecture or two.

No one is suffering a crisis, but you, Gerald. I'll arrange with
you, perhaps over a meal, to meet with ISU's astronomy faculty and
a few other knowledgeable folks, say a middle school algebra teacher
friend of mine.

I haven't met a single astronomer yet,what I have seen are people who
are absolutely convinced that astronomy is a magnification exercise at
night and truly believe that they are benefactors to humanity.My
goodness,what I wouldn't give to have a decent conversation with a
reasonably intelligent person instead of wading through this muck in
trying to put the cornerstone of astronomy back in place where people
actually have a point of departure for discussing planetary dynamics
and its effects.

The local Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at Iowa State has a $25k
grant for a new initiative project. Perhaps we could time things so
as you could be an integral part of a symposium of science education
for the challenged public.

Like I said, this is an opportunity you can't refuse and it should
provide the seed to solve the crisis festering in your head.

Don't make me laugh,the admission to astronomy and to be an astronomer
relies on either natural talent or effort,neither of which are
displayed here day in and day out.I do not look at the present
empirical stranglehold on my astronomical heritage but rather what
comes after now that the cult has run its course and can do no more
damage.

So,pick up a globe and spin it, all the information is there and it is
as simple as that -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...orld_globe.jpg

I take it you are refusing my offer share measuring the earth's
rotation time through 360° as opposed to some globe that you likely
can't even orient to the earth's rotational axis!

I'll bet you are in conflict with knowledgeable people in your own
church congregation, Jerald.

It is sad that you are so utterly confused, and it irritates some
that you continue to spew your confusion on the internet. Come on
man, do a bit of self-education!

When is the last time you learned something new... under the sun?

Sam, I've known you for 6-7 years now, I'm surprised you give
Jerald the time of day. For me, the subtle differences of measuring
time is complex, in fact we are still learning, but I think Jerald is
some sort of ****ed off astro flunky. He could spend 1/2 the time
learning as he does complaining.
Ken

On Nov 20, 9:19*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:04 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:27 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
On Nov 20, 1:41 am, Sam Wormley wrote:
* To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true to a
* "moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
* rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
* verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian.
Yes I am technically correct that the planet turns at a rate of 15
degrees per hour and while I could certainly label all of you kooks
for arguing against the rotational rate per hour.I would much prefer
that people treat this as an immediate crisis,deal with it and move on
to productive things which balance interpretation with speculation.
* *No, you are not correct! The earth rotate 15° in 59.836174 minutes
* *as any accurate gyro will confirm. If this was a legal case, it would
* *be Gerald against the World.
What exists is a small minority or rather,a cult which can argue
against the basic planetary facts of shape and rotation at a rate of
15 degrees per hour and that cult has now reached a stage where they
have become extremely offensive with their conclusion which links
carbon dioxide directly to global temperature just as at ground zero
they link the rotation of the constellations around Polaris directly
with daily rotation.
The equatorial Earth will rotate 1669.8 km every 15 degrees/1 hour and
an entire planetary circumference in 24 hours,any other value will
produce an offensive loss of geography and planetary facts,the only
thing left to consider is why would anybody,not *just the major
organisations and institutions involved in astronomy,but anybody who
considers intelligence to be a wonderful human trait,would do what you
just did by giving a wrong correlation between 15 degrees and 1 hour
clock time.
* *In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
* *confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
* *the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
* *to a meridian.
I have been through the explanation a thousand times to get people
familiar with the difference between creating the average 24 hour day
and the calendar system from the raw astronomical cycles and the
appropriate references for *daily and orbital timekeeping
demonstrating the insanity of a 'leap second' correction when
astronomers have been making 86 400 second correction every 4th year
for thousands of years based on the orbital correction.
I have presented with the utmost clarity that the 'sidereal time'
framework is a perfectly acceptable *365/366 day calendar convenience
except the utter stupidity which attaches planetary dynamics to it as
an excuse for dumping speculative junk into the celestial
arena,beginning with Isaac and ending with the subhuman 'bb' concept.
* *You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.
The only observable fact is the shock that people can knowingly ignore
the basic planetary facts found on any world globe which organises
planetary geography/geometry around the daily rotational
characteristics of the Earth.Do you all want to be called 'brilliant'
for continuing to pursue ideas which are on par with those of all
fundamentalist ideologies such as a flat Earth because that is exactly
what you get if you jump to a silly conclusion using the daily
rotation of the constellations around Polaris.
Again,the situation has filtered into the wider scientific arena where
nobody wants to go near a crisis which involves the notion that there
are choices involved in determining how long it takes the Earth to
turn once - there is no choice,the planet's day and night cycle, due
to independent rotation ,has a single value of 24 hours which is
arrived at in a very specific way that has nothing to do with a star
returning to a meridian daily.
The problem can be resolved easily and quickly but the real crisis is
now the complete lack of authority to deal with something no race of
people should have to endure - the loss of all planetary facts ,
dynamics and the consequences for terrestrial sciences or even Western
civilisation itself.
* *In science (and astronomy) the final arbiter is observation. Observation
* *confirms that the earth rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and
* *the rotation rate is verified by direct observation by a star returning
* *to a meridian.

* *You cannot deny this observable fact, Gerald.

* *How about I fly you over here to Ames, Iowa and together will time
* *the rotation of the earth about it's axis through my telescope with
* *a camera that records time to the nearest second.

What you are looking at is a homogenised timekeeping average which
lumps the average 24 hour day together with the 365/366 day calendar
system so that when you perceive the constellations to revolve about
Polaris you are isolated as a group in fixing the daily cycle to that
apparent constellational *rotation and in direct conflict with the
almost sacred principles of structural and timekeeping astronomy which
does not.Even with the emergence of clocks themselves,the core
principle is the average day referenced to natural noon while the
orbital cycle is calculated against the stellar background -

"Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passeth the 12. Signes,
or makes an entire revolution in the Ecliptick in 365 days, 5 hours 49
min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon,
are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in
Astronomy." Huygens

* *An offer you cannot refuse. I'll provide you with lodging and food
* *and take you to a physics lecture or two.

* *No one is suffering a crisis, but you, Gerald. I'll arrange with
* *you, perhaps over a meal, to meet with ISU's astronomy faculty and
* *a few other knowledgeable folks, say a middle school algebra teacher
* *friend of mine.

I haven't met a single astronomer yet,what I have seen are people who
are absolutely convinced that astronomy is a magnification exercise at
night and truly believe that they are benefactors to humanity.My
goodness,what I wouldn't give to have a decent conversation with a
reasonably intelligent person instead of wading through this muck in
trying to put the cornerstone of astronomy back in place where people
actually have a point of departure for discussing planetary dynamics
and its effects.

* *The local Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at Iowa State has a $25k
* *grant for a new initiative project. Perhaps we could time things so
* *as you could be an integral part of a symposium of science education
* *for the challenged public.

* *Like I said, this is an opportunity you can't refuse and it should
* *provide the seed to solve the crisis festering in your head.

Don't make me laugh,the admission to astronomy and to be an astronomer
relies on either natural talent or effort,neither of which are
displayed here day in and day out.I do not look at the present
empirical stranglehold on my astronomical heritage but rather what
comes after now that the cult has run its course and can do no more
damage.

So,pick up a globe and spin it, all the information is there and it is
as simple as that -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...orld_globe.jpg

* *I take it you are refusing my offer share measuring the earth's
* *rotation time through 360° as opposed to some globe that you likely
* *can't even orient to the earth's rotational axis!


The Earth's equatorial speed is 1669.8 km per hour and turns through
40,075 km in 24 hours but the fundamentalist ideology of empiricism
cannot accept what is pretty much this point of departure for
timekeeping and planetary dynamics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...orld_globe.jpg

No astronomer ,at least one worthy to take the name of astronomer,ever
used the rotation of the constellations around Polaris to determine
the daily cycle,not in geocentric mode and certainly not in terms of
the planetary dynamic of daily rotation,this is something you and your
unfortunate colleagues do in following the stupid error of Flamsteed.


* *I'll bet you are in conflict with knowledgeable people in your own
* *church congregation, Jerald.

* *It is sad that you are so utterly confused, and it irritates some
* *that you continue to spew your confusion on the internet. Come on
* *man, do a bit of self-education!

* *When is the last time you learned something new... under the sun?

You couldn't and can't make things personal,the grounds for
discussion and negotiation are technical therefore it becomes a matter
of competence set at the lowest rung possible without lapsing into the
non-reasoning of indoctrination hence I never fault you unduly for
being wrong but look for those who are aware how correct I am with an
eye for the consequences which arise from being correct.

As Ken is a refugee from the sci.relativity forum,maybe you or one of
the others here can fill him in on absolute/relative 'time' is only
the sound of Isaac trying to comprehend the difference between the
natural unequal day and the 24 hour clock day with the latter being a
timekeeping average -

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the
equation or correlation of the vulgar time. For the natural days are
truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used
for a measure of time;" Newton

The truth is that none of you could understand the elaborate scheme
which Newton wove around astronomical principles where he tried to
model orbital dynamics using the calendar based predictions of the Ra/
Dec system and somehow you are happy to be trapped inside the
imagination of that 17th century guy.Isaac's work would be funny were
it not taken seriously by so many and therein lies the greatest
difficulty I face - who do you call with a decent level of competence
to realise that not knowing basic planetary facts wrapped in the 24
hour/360 degree value is simply too grotesque to not treat as a crisis
and an urgent one.

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:41:54 GMT, Sam Wormley
wrote:

To say that the earth turns 15°/hr may be "technically" true to a
"moving reference" but any accurate gyro will confirm that the earth
rotates exactly 360° in 86,164.09+ seconds and the rotation rate is
verified by direct observation by a star returning to a meridian.

Fifteen degrees per hour is true only for the mean Sun. If you use
the apparent Sun, which is the one you actually see in the sky, 15
degrees per hour is only an approximation.

Bud

On 20 Nov, 19:57, oriel36 wrote:

So,pick up a globe and spin it, all the information is there and it is
as simple as that -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rld_globe.jpg- Hide quoted text -


While you are spinning your globe take note that it's axis is tilted.

On Nov 20, 12:19*pm, Sam Wormley wrote: (to
Oriel36)

* *When is the last time you learned something new... under the sun?

Since he is totally unteachable, it has been a very long time...