the refractor craze??

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:35:33 GMT, Simple Traveler
Elitism sucks in any hobby.

Hi Shawn. Having a boring Saturday...?

- Craig

Now getting back into the astro hobby after a few years recess, I've
noticed
a trend towards refractors. I visited a local SP a few weeks ago and
I'll
bet close to 70% of the scopes there were refractors. I'm curious as to
what's caused this trend or shift as when I was active in the past, close
to
15 years ago, the "light bucket" Dobsonian seemed to be the favorite at
star
parties. How does a refractor, which I seldom see in apertures greater
than 100mm due to expense, compare with a light bucket Dob or reflector?
It
certainly can't be DSO's as an 18" Dob would win that battle hands down.
I
would also think that the larger reflector would be the winner for
planets
too, especially if it has a good mirror. So, what is the appeal?
Portability, but what else? There must be something I'm missing
regarding
their appeal especially when you compare the cost per aperture
differences
between refractors and other scopes.

I don't know if there is a real craze, a marketing craze, or no craze at
all.
But I do know that if you go to a star party, not one telescope in 20 is a
refractor. People who actually use telescopes visually know what makes
sense.



The only thing that makes sense is the fact that this hobby is highly
personal.
It's like being a musician and knowing that a Fender Strat is "better" than
a Les Paul...
or that a Yamaha is "better" than a well made **** with strings.

Them's fightin werds!

Mark



Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:31:08 GMT, "Juan Calculus" wrote:

Now getting back into the astro hobby after a few years recess, I've noticed
a trend towards refractors. I visited a local SP a few weeks ago and I'll
bet close to 70% of the scopes there were refractors. I'm curious as to
what's caused this trend or shift as when I was active in the past, close to
15 years ago, the "light bucket" Dobsonian seemed to be the favorite at star
parties. How does a refractor, which I seldom see in apertures greater
than 100mm due to expense, compare with a light bucket Dob or reflector? It
certainly can't be DSO's as an 18" Dob would win that battle hands down. I
would also think that the larger reflector would be the winner for planets
too, especially if it has a good mirror. So, what is the appeal?
Portability, but what else? There must be something I'm missing regarding
their appeal especially when you compare the cost per aperture differences
between refractors and other scopes.

I don't know if there is a real craze, a marketing craze, or no craze at all.
But I do know that if you go to a star party, not one telescope in 20 is a
refractor. People who actually use telescopes visually know what makes sense.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

When is your "book" coming out? I would buy it, sight unseen!
Mark



Chris L Peterson wrote:

On 20 Nov 2004 19:11:00 GMT, (Chris1011) wrote:

I don't know if there is a real craze, a marketing craze, or no craze at all.
But I do know that if you go to a star party, not one telescope in 20 is a
refractor. People who actually use telescopes visually know what makes sense.

A lot of people use them for imaging, which you are not going to see at star
parties. It is hard to do with normal Dobs. People who buy high end apos know
exactly why they do so.

Yup. That's why I used the term "visually", and referred to star parties. In my
book, a refractor has two primary uses- imaging, and visual for travel or rapid
setup (typically, casual use).

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

you said it all in a nutshell. The ONLY disappointment with respect to
refractors is: Price and ... the Price and size of HQ 8-14 inchers!! I have
asked God to do something about this basic dilemma. He assures me
a solution is on the way.
Mark



Szaki wrote:

So, what is the appeal?

Portability, super quality image, minimum cool down time, contrast,
splitting and measuring double-stars refractor is the best, large aperture
scope more sensitive for atmospheric disturbances, refractor has the largest
field of view for visual or photo purposes etc...
Primarily for CCD photography, since the advance in technology and
affordability of CCD's, you don't need a large aperture telescope, which
require heavy large mount, to take excelent images of DSO's..

Julius

"Juan Calculus" wrote in message
ink.net...
Now getting back into the astro hobby after a few years recess, I've
noticed
a trend towards refractors. I visited a local SP a few weeks ago and I'll
bet close to 70% of the scopes there were refractors. I'm curious as to
what's caused this trend or shift as when I was active in the past, close
to
15 years ago, the "light bucket" Dobsonian seemed to be the favorite at
star
parties. How does a refractor, which I seldom see in apertures greater
than 100mm due to expense, compare with a light bucket Dob or reflector?
It
certainly can't be DSO's as an 18" Dob would win that battle hands down.
I
would also think that the larger reflector would be the winner for planets
too, especially if it has a good mirror. So, what is the appeal?
Portability, but what else? There must be something I'm missing regarding
their appeal especially when you compare the cost per aperture differences
between refractors and other scopes.

Thanks,
Juan

Rich, if Jonny didnt get this crap refractor he would probably never
get anything (astronomical) and would never know anything! After the
ballgame to day I heard one drunk say to another: "Hey. &^R%$#it,
my $&(&(^en wife got me a telescope!" to which the other replied:
"Where the %$#K did she get it!?" ....... "At KMart of course!".
"What the hell are you gonna do with it" ......... laughter ......... "Well I
sure as hellaint gonna bring it to the ballgames to look at you. **** I wanna
see the Moon. I here the Lottos goin up there".

I rest my casette.

Mark, llp








RichA wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:31:08 GMT, "Juan Calculus"
wrote:

Now getting back into the astro hobby after a few years recess, I've noticed
a trend towards refractors. I visited a local SP a few weeks ago and I'll
bet close to 70% of the scopes there were refractors. I'm curious as to
what's caused this trend or shift as when I was active in the past, close to
15 years ago, the "light bucket" Dobsonian seemed to be the favorite at star
parties. How does a refractor, which I seldom see in apertures greater
than 100mm due to expense, compare with a light bucket Dob or reflector? It
certainly can't be DSO's as an 18" Dob would win that battle hands down. I
would also think that the larger reflector would be the winner for planets
too, especially if it has a good mirror. So, what is the appeal?
Portability, but what else? There must be something I'm missing regarding
their appeal especially when you compare the cost per aperture differences
between refractors and other scopes.

Thanks,
Juan


The Dob is still the largest selling scope for committed amateurs.
This factors out the people who buy crap refractors from dept.
stores for Johnny for a last-minute gift.
-Rich

RichA wrote in message
[...]
Portable?
Have any of you ever used a refractor over 6?"
-Rich

6" refractor? Sounds more like a proctoscope.

Might be good viewing Uranus.

:-)

"Rich Lauzon" wrote in message m...
[...]
SCTs. So bottom line to me, if there is any scope design that doesn't make
sense to me particularly for visual observing it is the SCT.

That's an odd comment.

For visual astro viewing, an SCT on a tracking Alt/AZ fork mount is the most
comfortable and easiest to use for long viewing sessions:

1. eyepiece position doesn't vary all that much from horizon to zenith so one
can remain comfortably seated

2. no problems with meridian flip that plague many EQ mounts

3. no outstretched counterweights to whack body parts of passersby

4. SCTs are available with apertures easily permitting viewing faint fuzzies

5. really great for star parties

Agreed. The *best* telescope is the one that gets used.

Could not possibly agree more. I have an XT8, C5+, TV-76 and Coronado PST.
The PST gets used 100-1 over the others and the TV-76 gets used next most
often. I can't drive at night anymore due to a tumor which has since been
removed, so any observing I do is done at home. THe C5+ is great if I am going
to dedicate hours to it, al set up the mount, align it and turn on the clock
drive. The best two nights of DSO hunting I have done in my life were with
that scope. The third best night was getting all Messiers in the Virgo
cluster...my first attempt at star-hopping...was done with my XT8. All the
rest of the best nights were thanks to my little TV-76, which shows gorgeous
wide-field views, can set up in seconds, requires no cool-down time and packs
away into next to nothing. It also is a great solar, lunar and planetary
scope. Images under the right conditions are stunning. Three of us gathered
for a winter observing session a couple of years back, and Io was going behind
Jupiter. We had three scopes...an ETX-125, a 102-mm Celestron refractor with a
minus-violet filter and my little 76. I was the last person to be able to see
the sliver of black between Io and Jupiter before it occulted. I have looked
through a C-8 (all the coatings) and compared the view to what I see in the 76,
and the small refractor does the job for me. I adore this little scope beyond
measure for what it can do for me. Many would consider it money wasted, but if
you USE the thing, then it most certainly isn't.

Mark
The Catman
^..^

www.geocities.com/mark_rosengarten
Owner/Coordinator of the Neko Ultraportable Solar Observatory
Fun WITH The Sun for Everyone!

hi,

My best DSO scope... a 17.5 " dob, it can't beat it for visual use
(planets excepted) with anything else I have

My best travel scope ... 6" f10 mak-cas on a Unistar deluxe mount and
tripod .. enough aperture to see lots of stuff, the ota is carry-on in
its soft case, the tripod goes with the luggage.

My best wide FOV scope a 4" apo ... 5 degree FOV with a 35mm Panoptic
...very very portable but really not any more then the 6" mak-cas. It
cools faster..but that's an issue that's easy to deal with.

My best set of optics... a 6" Mak-newt with quartz optics, tested at
1/11 wave, 19 % cnetral obstruction and does a hair better then a 5"
apo and a hair worse then a 6" apo visually.

My best all around, can do a lot but not anything the best, best bang
for the buck scope (cost was $350) , a 8" orange tube C8 ota with
great optics.


The apos are the very best imaging scopes for their respective focal
lengths.. for imaging of nebulas and large DSO's they can't be beat.
However for imaging of smaller DSO's such as galaxies and planetary
nebulas a larger aperture longer FL scope such as a Mak-Cas, SCT,
Dahl-Kirkham or RC scope is much better due to its increased
resolution and light grasp.

So IMHO, having learned from experience, there is no one best all
around scope.

clear skies,


Larry Citro









"Juan Calculus" wrote in message link.net...
Now getting back into the astro hobby after a few years recess, I've noticed
a trend towards refractors. I visited a local SP a few weeks ago and I'll
bet close to 70% of the scopes there were refractors. I'm curious as to
what's caused this trend or shift as when I was active in the past, close to
15 years ago, the "light bucket" Dobsonian seemed to be the favorite at star
parties. How does a refractor, which I seldom see in apertures greater
than 100mm due to expense, compare with a light bucket Dob or reflector? It
certainly can't be DSO's as an 18" Dob would win that battle hands down. I
would also think that the larger reflector would be the winner for planets
too, especially if it has a good mirror. So, what is the appeal?
Portability, but what else? There must be something I'm missing regarding
their appeal especially when you compare the cost per aperture differences
between refractors and other scopes.

Thanks,
Juan