Please move distributed computing discussions to comp.distributed

Matt Giwer wrote:

As to cost, you cannot be drawing more than the wattage of your
computers power supply, probably closer to half unless you have four
hard drives and peripherals drawing power.

200 Watts X 24 hours = 4.8 KW-HR X cost per kw-hr

Most new psu's are 75% efficient at best, older ones even worse, so a 200W
psu, under full load, draws about 250W. I do agree that consumption at full
load with only 1 hd and a low power gpu is probably around half or just over
half of the stated consumption.

--
Apollo

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:49:07 +1200, in article

"~misfit~" wrote:

If there are they're a dying breed. Or will be soon.

Kirk, stupid request mate. SETI is moving to BOINC

There IS more to SETI than just one particular tool (in this context
distributed computing).

SETI@home is on-topic for these newsgroups buddy. You want these NGs to die
in a few months when SETI classic is turned off?

No, they want to go back to discussing SETI as a topic (which was its
original purpose), and not be overwhelmed by the masses chattering about
one particular aspect of the processing of one particular data set.

Evolve or die.

Do try to see beyond the ego.
--
Raj Rijhwani | This is the voice of the Mysterons...
| ... We know that you can hear us Earthmen
http://www.rijhwani.org/raj/ | "Lieutenant Green: Launch all Angels!"

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:49:07 +1200, in article

"~misfit~" wrote:

If there are they're a dying breed. Or will be soon.

Kirk, stupid request mate. SETI is moving to BOINC

There IS more to SETI than just one particular tool (in this context
distributed computing).

SETI@home is on-topic for these newsgroups buddy. You want these NGs to die
in a few months when SETI classic is turned off?

No, they want to go back to discussing SETI as a topic (which was its
original purpose), and not be overwhelmed by the masses chattering about
one particular aspect of the processing of one particular data set.

Evolve or die.

Do try to see beyond the ego.
--
Raj Rijhwani | This is the voice of the Mysterons...
| ... We know that you can hear us Earthmen
http://www.rijhwani.org/raj/ | "Lieutenant Green: Launch all Angels!"

Apollo wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:

As to cost, you cannot be drawing more than the wattage of your
computers power supply, probably closer to half unless you have four
hard drives and peripherals drawing power.

200 Watts X 24 hours = 4.8 KW-HR X cost per kw-hr

Most new psu's are 75% efficient at best, older ones even worse, so a
200W psu, under full load, draws about 250W. I do agree that
consumption at full load with only 1 hd and a low power gpu is
probably around half or just over half of the stated consumption.

A Pentium 4 PrescHOT CPU alone will use well over half of the abovementioned
200 watts, before you even consider the losses in the PSU and mobo
power-regulating circuitry before the power gets to the CPU. Close to 150
watts for the CPU alone. Then you've got to get the heat out of the case.

It all depends on your CPU. A PrescHOT has a thermal dissapation of about
103 watts so it's fair to assume that it's using at least that amount plus a
little more. Motherboard circuitry uses a fair few watts (have you ever put
your finger on the power FETs on a running PC, or wondered why northbridges
have heatsinks/fans?) as well. An AMD XP Athlon 32-bit dissapates around 83
watts. You can expect 5-10 watts consumption from CPU fans. These figures
are for non-overclocked machines. You mention the efficiency of PSU's but
then there is the efficiency of the on-board power regulating circuitry as
well (the aforementioned FETs) that supply the low vcores in the range of
1.5v from 12v. Then there's the GPU. Ok, SETI-farm boxes wouldn't have much
in the way of graphics power usually. However my main machine is only
running a nVidia ti4200 and, even on idle (desktop) with it's great big
heatsink and fan, it runs at 53°C. That must take a bit of power to get it
to 53° despite the best cooling Leadtek could devise. Even my SETI machines
run a basic 8MB S3 AGP card and the GPU on those, while not heat-sinked,
gets quite hot to the touch. I have good case cooling, another 25 watts or
so. (I have nine fans all-up in my main PC, *far* more than 25 watts worth).
Even my southbridge gets hot, I have fitted a passive heatsink to it as it
was uncomfortable to hold my finger on it. Then there's the HDD, the RAM
also uses power (I've heard a figure of 15-20 watts mentioned for 512MB).
You'd also be running a modem or a NIC, at the very least (even if it's
on-board). They consume electricity too.

Taking into account the efficiency of the PSU and the mobo circuitry I think
that the 200 watts mentioned is a fair middle-ground estimate, considering
some people will be running PrescHOT's, using more than 200w and some will
be running Celerons or Pentium M's, using less. All, if running SETI, will
be using maximum CPU power all the time. (If the servers are up g).
--
~misfit~

Apollo wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:

As to cost, you cannot be drawing more than the wattage of your
computers power supply, probably closer to half unless you have four
hard drives and peripherals drawing power.

200 Watts X 24 hours = 4.8 KW-HR X cost per kw-hr

Most new psu's are 75% efficient at best, older ones even worse, so a
200W psu, under full load, draws about 250W. I do agree that
consumption at full load with only 1 hd and a low power gpu is
probably around half or just over half of the stated consumption.

A Pentium 4 PrescHOT CPU alone will use well over half of the abovementioned
200 watts, before you even consider the losses in the PSU and mobo
power-regulating circuitry before the power gets to the CPU. Close to 150
watts for the CPU alone. Then you've got to get the heat out of the case.

It all depends on your CPU. A PrescHOT has a thermal dissapation of about
103 watts so it's fair to assume that it's using at least that amount plus a
little more. Motherboard circuitry uses a fair few watts (have you ever put
your finger on the power FETs on a running PC, or wondered why northbridges
have heatsinks/fans?) as well. An AMD XP Athlon 32-bit dissapates around 83
watts. You can expect 5-10 watts consumption from CPU fans. These figures
are for non-overclocked machines. You mention the efficiency of PSU's but
then there is the efficiency of the on-board power regulating circuitry as
well (the aforementioned FETs) that supply the low vcores in the range of
1.5v from 12v. Then there's the GPU. Ok, SETI-farm boxes wouldn't have much
in the way of graphics power usually. However my main machine is only
running a nVidia ti4200 and, even on idle (desktop) with it's great big
heatsink and fan, it runs at 53°C. That must take a bit of power to get it
to 53° despite the best cooling Leadtek could devise. Even my SETI machines
run a basic 8MB S3 AGP card and the GPU on those, while not heat-sinked,
gets quite hot to the touch. I have good case cooling, another 25 watts or
so. (I have nine fans all-up in my main PC, *far* more than 25 watts worth).
Even my southbridge gets hot, I have fitted a passive heatsink to it as it
was uncomfortable to hold my finger on it. Then there's the HDD, the RAM
also uses power (I've heard a figure of 15-20 watts mentioned for 512MB).
You'd also be running a modem or a NIC, at the very least (even if it's
on-board). They consume electricity too.

Taking into account the efficiency of the PSU and the mobo circuitry I think
that the 200 watts mentioned is a fair middle-ground estimate, considering
some people will be running PrescHOT's, using more than 200w and some will
be running Celerons or Pentium M's, using less. All, if running SETI, will
be using maximum CPU power all the time. (If the servers are up g).
--
~misfit~

Raj Rijhwani wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:49:07 +1200, in article

"~misfit~" wrote:

If there are they're a dying breed. Or will be soon.

Kirk, stupid request mate. SETI is moving to BOINC

There IS more to SETI than just one particular tool (in this context
distributed computing).

Yes. However most interest in "SETI" in newsgroups is about the DC client.

SETI@home is on-topic for these newsgroups buddy. You want these NGs
to die in a few months when SETI classic is turned off?

No, they want to go back to discussing SETI as a topic (which was its
original purpose), and not be overwhelmed by the masses chattering
about one particular aspect of the processing of one particular data
set.

"The masses chattering" huh? And yet you say to me:

Do try to see beyond the ego.

If you want to, you can feel free to ignore the "chattering" about the
Berkeley SETI project and just read posts about other methods of Searching
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Please, don't feel compelled to be
dragged down to our level. Both groups that this is posted to have 'seti' in
their names. That means *searching* for ET, not just navel-gazing and
philosophizing about ET. Feel free to wander around your back yard searching
for ET and come back here and tell us about your experience. These NG's
cater for all those interested in the SETI and, as much as you don't like
it, 99% of the people who are likely to inhabit these groups are going to be
wanting to talk about, or be involved in the Berkeley initiative.

These NG's *are* serving their initial and intended purpose. Sorry if it
doesn't suit you. Maybe you should go to the Mensa NG and get away from all
these distaseful "masses". Or just post around us disgusting plebs, I'm sure
a man with a superiority complex as big as the one you exhibit is capable of
that.
--
~misfit~

Raj Rijhwani wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:49:07 +1200, in article

"~misfit~" wrote:

If there are they're a dying breed. Or will be soon.

Kirk, stupid request mate. SETI is moving to BOINC

There IS more to SETI than just one particular tool (in this context
distributed computing).

Yes. However most interest in "SETI" in newsgroups is about the DC client.

SETI@home is on-topic for these newsgroups buddy. You want these NGs
to die in a few months when SETI classic is turned off?

No, they want to go back to discussing SETI as a topic (which was its
original purpose), and not be overwhelmed by the masses chattering
about one particular aspect of the processing of one particular data
set.

"The masses chattering" huh? And yet you say to me:

Do try to see beyond the ego.

If you want to, you can feel free to ignore the "chattering" about the
Berkeley SETI project and just read posts about other methods of Searching
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. Please, don't feel compelled to be
dragged down to our level. Both groups that this is posted to have 'seti' in
their names. That means *searching* for ET, not just navel-gazing and
philosophizing about ET. Feel free to wander around your back yard searching
for ET and come back here and tell us about your experience. These NG's
cater for all those interested in the SETI and, as much as you don't like
it, 99% of the people who are likely to inhabit these groups are going to be
wanting to talk about, or be involved in the Berkeley initiative.

These NG's *are* serving their initial and intended purpose. Sorry if it
doesn't suit you. Maybe you should go to the Mensa NG and get away from all
these distaseful "masses". Or just post around us disgusting plebs, I'm sure
a man with a superiority complex as big as the one you exhibit is capable of
that.
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:
Apollo wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote:

As to cost, you cannot be drawing more than the wattage of your
computers power supply, probably closer to half unless you have four
hard drives and peripherals drawing power.

200 Watts X 24 hours = 4.8 KW-HR X cost per kw-hr

Most new psu's are 75% efficient at best, older ones even worse, so a
200W psu, under full load, draws about 250W. I do agree that
consumption at full load with only 1 hd and a low power gpu is
probably around half or just over half of the stated consumption.

A Pentium 4 PrescHOT CPU alone will use well over half of the abovementioned
200 watts, before you even consider the losses in the PSU and mobo
power-regulating circuitry before the power gets to the CPU. Close to 150
watts for the CPU alone. Then you've got to get the heat out of the case.

It all depends on your CPU. A PrescHOT has a thermal dissapation of about
103 watts so it's fair to assume that it's using at least that amount plus a
little more. Motherboard circuitry uses a fair few watts (have you ever put
your finger on the power FETs on a running PC, or wondered why northbridges
have heatsinks/fans?) as well. An AMD XP Athlon 32-bit dissapates around 83
watts. You can expect 5-10 watts consumption from CPU fans. These figures
are for non-overclocked machines. You mention the efficiency of PSU's but
then there is the efficiency of the on-board power regulating circuitry as
well (the aforementioned FETs) that supply the low vcores in the range of
1.5v from 12v. Then there's the GPU. Ok, SETI-farm boxes wouldn't have much
in the way of graphics power usually. However my main machine is only
running a nVidia ti4200 and, even on idle (desktop) with it's great big
heatsink and fan, it runs at 53°C. That must take a bit of power to get it
to 53° despite the best cooling Leadtek could devise. Even my SETI machines
run a basic 8MB S3 AGP card and the GPU on those, while not heat-sinked,
gets quite hot to the touch. I have good case cooling, another 25 watts or
so. (I have nine fans all-up in my main PC, *far* more than 25 watts worth).
Even my southbridge gets hot, I have fitted a passive heatsink to it as it
was uncomfortable to hold my finger on it. Then there's the HDD, the RAM
also uses power (I've heard a figure of 15-20 watts mentioned for 512MB).
You'd also be running a modem or a NIC, at the very least (even if it's
on-board). They consume electricity too.

Taking into account the efficiency of the PSU and the mobo circuitry I think
that the 200 watts mentioned is a fair middle-ground estimate, considering
some people will be running PrescHOT's, using more than 200w and some will
be running Celerons or Pentium M's, using less. All, if running SETI, will
be using maximum CPU power all the time. (If the servers are up g).

With all that said temperature is because of watts/area consumption.
With chips it is proportional to gates/area.

I based it on power supply rating and assumed it could power a fully
loaded PC, thus the four HDs. The wattage rating is on a plate on the
PS. Two of mine read 250 and 300 watts. I presume there are no trick
considerations in the rating.

--
If you are a Jew you can become an Israeli, live on
land stolen from Palestinians and with any luck make
a fortune from the compensation when giving it back
to its rightful owners. Oy! The pain!
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3219

~misfit~ wrote:
Apollo wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote:

As to cost, you cannot be drawing more than the wattage of your
computers power supply, probably closer to half unless you have four
hard drives and peripherals drawing power.

200 Watts X 24 hours = 4.8 KW-HR X cost per kw-hr

Most new psu's are 75% efficient at best, older ones even worse, so a
200W psu, under full load, draws about 250W. I do agree that
consumption at full load with only 1 hd and a low power gpu is
probably around half or just over half of the stated consumption.

A Pentium 4 PrescHOT CPU alone will use well over half of the abovementioned
200 watts, before you even consider the losses in the PSU and mobo
power-regulating circuitry before the power gets to the CPU. Close to 150
watts for the CPU alone. Then you've got to get the heat out of the case.

It all depends on your CPU. A PrescHOT has a thermal dissapation of about
103 watts so it's fair to assume that it's using at least that amount plus a
little more. Motherboard circuitry uses a fair few watts (have you ever put
your finger on the power FETs on a running PC, or wondered why northbridges
have heatsinks/fans?) as well. An AMD XP Athlon 32-bit dissapates around 83
watts. You can expect 5-10 watts consumption from CPU fans. These figures
are for non-overclocked machines. You mention the efficiency of PSU's but
then there is the efficiency of the on-board power regulating circuitry as
well (the aforementioned FETs) that supply the low vcores in the range of
1.5v from 12v. Then there's the GPU. Ok, SETI-farm boxes wouldn't have much
in the way of graphics power usually. However my main machine is only
running a nVidia ti4200 and, even on idle (desktop) with it's great big
heatsink and fan, it runs at 53°C. That must take a bit of power to get it
to 53° despite the best cooling Leadtek could devise. Even my SETI machines
run a basic 8MB S3 AGP card and the GPU on those, while not heat-sinked,
gets quite hot to the touch. I have good case cooling, another 25 watts or
so. (I have nine fans all-up in my main PC, *far* more than 25 watts worth).
Even my southbridge gets hot, I have fitted a passive heatsink to it as it
was uncomfortable to hold my finger on it. Then there's the HDD, the RAM
also uses power (I've heard a figure of 15-20 watts mentioned for 512MB).
You'd also be running a modem or a NIC, at the very least (even if it's
on-board). They consume electricity too.

Taking into account the efficiency of the PSU and the mobo circuitry I think
that the 200 watts mentioned is a fair middle-ground estimate, considering
some people will be running PrescHOT's, using more than 200w and some will
be running Celerons or Pentium M's, using less. All, if running SETI, will
be using maximum CPU power all the time. (If the servers are up g).

With all that said temperature is because of watts/area consumption.
With chips it is proportional to gates/area.

I based it on power supply rating and assumed it could power a fully
loaded PC, thus the four HDs. The wattage rating is on a plate on the
PS. Two of mine read 250 and 300 watts. I presume there are no trick
considerations in the rating.

--
If you are a Jew you can become an Israeli, live on
land stolen from Palestinians and with any luck make
a fortune from the compensation when giving it back
to its rightful owners. Oy! The pain!
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3219

~misfit~ wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:

As to cost, you cannot be drawing more than the wattage of your
computers power supply, probably closer to half unless you have four
hard drives and peripherals drawing power.

200 Watts X 24 hours = 4.8 KW-HR X cost per kw-hr

Most new psu's are 75% efficient at best, older ones even worse, so a
200W psu, under full load, draws about 250W. I do agree that
consumption at full load with only 1 hd and a low power gpu is
probably around half or just over half of the stated consumption.

A Pentium 4 PrescHOT CPU alone will use well over half of the
abovementioned 200 watts, before you even consider the losses in the
PSU and mobo power-regulating circuitry before the power gets to the
CPU. Close to 150 watts for the CPU alone. Then you've got to get the
heat out of the case.


I agree about todays HOT cpu's consumption, but as Matt was talking about a
200W psu I was thinking PIII / Low-end athlon/duron systems. I have no
experience of recent Intel procs, but I don't think I'd put a PIV system
together using a 200W psu ;o)

It all depends on your CPU. A PrescHOT has a thermal dissapation of
about 103 watts so it's fair to assume that it's using at least that
amount plus a little more. Motherboard circuitry uses a fair few
watts (have you ever put your finger on the power FETs on a running
PC, or wondered why northbridges have heatsinks/fans?) as well. An
AMD XP Athlon 32-bit dissapates around 83 watts.

I'm curious now, any idea what my cpu would consume; mobile XP2400 35W @
1.35v standard vcore - set at 1.93v. There must be some correlation, it
can't be linear or it would only be around 50W and I wouldn't need my
wetware setup.

You can expect 5-10
watts consumption from CPU fans. These figures are for
non-overclocked machines. You mention the efficiency of PSU's but
then there is the efficiency of the on-board power regulating
circuitry as well (the aforementioned FETs) that supply the low
vcores in the range of
1.5v from 12v. Then there's the GPU. Ok, SETI-farm boxes wouldn't
have much in the way of graphics power usually. However my main
machine is only running a nVidia ti4200 and, even on idle (desktop)
with it's great big heatsink and fan, it runs at 53°C. That must take
a bit of power to get it to 53° despite the best cooling Leadtek
could devise. Even my SETI machines run a basic 8MB S3 AGP card and
the GPU on those, while not heat-sinked, gets quite hot to the touch.
I have good case cooling, another 25 watts or so. (I have nine fans
all-up in my main PC, *far* more than 25 watts worth). Even my
southbridge gets hot, I have fitted a passive heatsink to it as it
was uncomfortable to hold my finger on it. Then there's the HDD, the
RAM also uses power (I've heard a figure of 15-20 watts mentioned for
512MB). You'd also be running a modem or a NIC, at the very least
(even if it's on-board). They consume electricity too.

Taking into account the efficiency of the PSU and the mobo circuitry
I think that the 200 watts mentioned is a fair middle-ground
estimate, considering some people will be running PrescHOT's, using
more than 200w and some will be running Celerons or Pentium M's,
using less. All, if running SETI, will be using maximum CPU power all
the time. (If the servers are up g).

I'm lucky I guess, I still have 24wu left in my cache, but only because I've
been away for the weekend and don't like leaving them running when I'm not
here.

I wish I knew someone with one of those sockets that measure power
consumption, I'd definately borrow one for a while just to see what I'm
using, I wonder if any tool hire shops have them?

Thanks

--
Apollo