Another source of light pollution

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 1:10:13 AM UTC-6, Chris.B wrote:
On Tuesday, 30 January 2018 20:27:05 UTC+1, Chris L Peterson wrote:

I disagree, given that there is no "ideal society". The best human
society in terms of our success as a species may turn out to be a
single brilliant autocrat who simply kills every other person who
fails to fulfill his given role well enough.

Whoops! Doesn't this come down to ample reward for effort?
Slaves would argue strongly against your role fulfillment aspect.
The broken tail light, capital punishment syndrome is considered harsh.
Crooked oil princes imagine themselves too worthy to need any moral role.
That belief is constantly reinforced by the world's oil buying nations.

We have not yet descended to true comic book, black and white morality.
Yet our fiction is still fixated on appeals to imaginary gods and super-beings.
All in a desperate bid to provide the natural justice not available within any existing society.
The irony being that those who would guard our morals and roles are usually the absolute extremists of human corruption.

Meanwhile, Lord, please mark me down for double rations of Soylent, easy over, when you finally get to be in charge. ;-)

The term is "over easy".

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:14:11 -0800 (PST), palsing
wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 12:46:20 PM UTC-8, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the
right
to not be killed.


Tell that to the grizzly bear you surprise on a hike.


Tell that to the residents of certain villages in the middle east.


Just exactly who is it who grants this 'right not to be killed'?

The legal system, who else?

Of course no legal system is 100% effective. Someone may violate your
rights, but that doesn't mean you don't have those rights.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 10:35:29 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:
Basically, rights are what the ideal society would define them to
be.
What other societies define are an imperfect reflection of what
rights

And how do you define what an ideal society is? That depends on your
ideals, doesn't it?

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 3:53:45 PM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 10:35:29 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:
Basically, rights are what the ideal society would define them to
be.
What other societies define are an imperfect reflection of what
rights

And how do you define what an ideal society is? That depends on your
ideals, doesn't it?

Ideal society? Highly educated, able to do critical thinking, fair in all matters, humane to all.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:33:12 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:46:16 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:06:50 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
(I don't really recognize the concept of a "human right". I think
rights should only be granted to human individuals.)

Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the
right
to not be killed.


Sure. Or as I call them, "rights".

Just calling them "rights" could imply that they also apply to
non-human such as animals.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 10:32:37 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:
Human rights are not granted. Human rights are properties of all
humans,
just as electric charge, angular momentum, and mass are properties
of an
electron.

If human rights are like physical laws, as you claim here, then why
can human rights be violated? Physical laws cannot be violated...

However, a human right not to be killed unjustly

:-) That's the American version of the human right to not be killed
for **any** reason...

The strongest reason to not allow the justice system to execute
people is that courts sometimes make mistakes. Someone who has been
jailed innocently can be freed at given at least economic
compensation. But someone who has been executed innocently cannot be
brought back to life.

On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:03:57 -0800 (PST), Razzmatazz
wrote:
And how do you define what an ideal society is? That depends on
your
ideals, doesn't it?

Ideal society? Highly educated, able to do critical thinking, fair
in all matters, humane to all.

An ideal society thus requires ideal citizens, which do not exist.
And it still depends on which ideals you have, and different people
have different ideals. Who should decide?

On 31/01/2018 23:03, Razzmatazz wrote:
On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 3:53:45 PM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 10:35:29 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:
Basically, rights are what the ideal society would define them to
be.
What other societies define are an imperfect reflection of what
rights

And how do you define what an ideal society is? That depends on your
ideals, doesn't it?

Ideal society? Highly educated, able to do critical thinking, fair in all matters, humane to all.

How do you deal with born psychopaths then?

"The lion shall lie down with the lamb" shows a fundamental lack of
understanding of the dietary requirements of an obligate carnivore.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 07:42:06 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:33:12 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:46:16 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:06:50 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
(I don't really recognize the concept of a "human right". I think
rights should only be granted to human individuals.)

Human rights are rights granted to all humans. For instance the
right
to not be killed.


Sure. Or as I call them, "rights".

Just calling them "rights" could imply that they also apply to
non-human such as animals.

I don't believe it makes sense to consider non-sentient entities as
having rights. You need to understand the concept of rights to have
rights.

On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 07:31:32 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote:

I don't believe it makes sense to consider non-sentient entities as
having rights. You need to understand the concept of rights to have
rights.

You need to be able to understand the concept of rights to appreciate
that you have them; but you need not understand the concept of rights
them to have rights. After all, a newly born infant, or comatose
person, does not have the capacity to understand much of anything - yet
they have rights under our (U.S.) law.


--
Email address is a Spam trap.