How to pronunciate Chthonian

The May 2004 issue of Scientific American has an article about gas
depleted hot jupiters which are named Chthonians (page 13). How to
pronunciate it ? Does "Ch" or "th" go silent ?

--

Gautam Majumdar

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On Sun, 16 May 2004 11:48:28 +0100, Gautam Majumdar
wrote, in part:
The May 2004 issue of Scientific American has an article about gas
depleted hot jupiters which are named Chthonians (page 13). How to
pronunciate it ? Does "Ch" or "th" go silent ?

According to http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=chthonian it's
pronounced (in a way that they transcribe as) /'thO-nE-&n/ (which I'd
transcribe as /'TownijIn/). That is, the 'ch' is silent. Other online
dictionaries agree (see a list at onelook.com). Cf. 'phthisic', which has
a silent 'ph'.

Michael Hamm NB: Of late, my e-mail address is being
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis 'spoofed' a bit. That is, spammers send
e-mail that seems to be from me. Please
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ realize that no spam is in fact from me.

(Michael Hamm) writes:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 11:48:28 +0100, Gautam Majumdar
wrote, in part:
The May 2004 issue of Scientific American has an article about gas
depleted hot jupiters which are named Chthonians (page 13). How to
pronunciate it ? Does "Ch" or "th" go silent ?

According to http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=chthonian it's
pronounced (in a way that they transcribe as) /'thO-nE-&n/ (which
I'd transcribe as /'TownijIn/). That is, the 'ch' is silent. Other
online dictionaries agree (see a list at onelook.com).

Note, however, that in "authochthonous" (/O'tAkTh@nus/) both the "ch"
and the "th" are pronounced.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
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1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Know when to log out,
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Know when to single step,
| Know when you're through.
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"Evan Kirshenbaum" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
(Michael Hamm) writes:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 11:48:28 +0100, Gautam Majumdar
wrote, in part:
The May 2004 issue of Scientific American has an article about gas
depleted hot jupiters which are named Chthonians (page 13). How to
pronunciate it ? Does "Ch" or "th" go silent ?

According to http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=chthonian it's
pronounced (in a way that they transcribe as) /'thO-nE-&n/ (which
I'd transcribe as /'TownijIn/). That is, the 'ch' is silent. Other
online dictionaries agree (see a list at onelook.com).

Note, however, that in "authochthonous" (/O'tAkTh@nus/) both the "ch"
and the "th" are pronounced.

Of course: it's easier for native English speakers to pronounce consonant
clusters in the middle of words.

Or, put another way: English speakers often find it impossible to pronounce
certain consonant clusters when they occur at the beginning of a word.
That's why, for example, we pronounce "xylophone" and "xenon" with /z/
instead of /ks/. However, few English speakers have problems with, say,
"pixie". It also explains why we do not pronounce the "p" in "psychology";
this "silent P" is so well established, we don't even pronounce it in
"parapsychology", even though few speakers would have problems with it. Note
also the silent "k" in "knife" (from French "canif") and "knie" (from German
"Knie", pronounced /kni:/).

When I was at university, one of the girls in my Russian class was half
Greek: her name was Xenia. I was the only one in the group who managed to
pronounce it correctly, and the situation didn't improve when we learned
words like "kstati" ("of course"). Most of the group had to use a fill-vowel
to be able to pronounce it: [k@'stAti] was the most common variation.

Interestingly, the Spanish (I'm not sure about Latin Americans) have
problems with words beginning with "sp" and "st"; no Spanish words begin
with those clusters, but "esp" and "est" are common. I remember one year
when the Spanish entry to the Eurovision Song Contest was called "Made in
Spain", and they actually made it into four syllables: "Made in Espain", the
fill vowel taking up an entire beat with a note all to itself, despite the
fact that it didn't appear in the printed lyrics.

rewboss wrote:

Of course: it's easier for native English speakers to pronounce consonant
clusters in the middle of words.

Or, put another way: English speakers often find it impossible to pronounce
certain consonant clusters when they occur at the beginning of a word.
That's why, for example, we pronounce "xylophone" and "xenon" with /z/
instead of /ks/. However, few English speakers have problems with, say,
"pixie". It also explains why we do not pronounce the "p" in "psychology";
this "silent P" is so well established, we don't even pronounce it in
"parapsychology", even though few speakers would have problems with it. Note
also the silent "k" in "knife" (from French "canif") and "knie" (from German
"Knie", pronounced /kni:/).

When I was at university, one of the girls in my Russian class was half
Greek: her name was Xenia. I was the only one in the group who managed to
pronounce it correctly, and the situation didn't improve when we learned
words like "kstati" ("of course"). Most of the group had to use a fill-vowel
to be able to pronounce it: [k@'stAti] was the most common variation.

Interestingly, the Spanish (I'm not sure about Latin Americans) have
problems with words beginning with "sp" and "st"; no Spanish words begin
with those clusters, but "esp" and "est" are common. I remember one year
when the Spanish entry to the Eurovision Song Contest was called "Made in
Spain", and they actually made it into four syllables: "Made in Espain", the
fill vowel taking up an entire beat with a note all to itself, despite the
fact that it didn't appear in the printed lyrics.

Very interesting. Just goes to show how hard linguistic habits can be
to break.
--
John Popelish

John Popelish wrote:
rewboss wrote:
also the silent "k" in "knife" (from French "canif") and "knie" (from German
"Knie", pronounced /kni:/).

According to wwwebster "knife" is "akin to middle low German 'knif'
knife", no mention of any French connection, and "knee" is "akin to
Old High German 'kneo' knee", ie. it is not derived from present-day
German "knie".

Interestingly, the Spanish (I'm not sure about Latin Americans) have
problems with words beginning with "sp" and "st"; no Spanish words begin
with those clusters, but "esp" and "est" are common. I remember one year

And not only those two combinations. Same goes for initial "s"
followed by any consonant.

CV

rewboss wrote:


Interestingly, the Spanish (I'm not sure about Latin Americans) have
problems with words beginning with "sp" and "st"; no Spanish words begin
with those clusters, but "esp" and "est" are common. I remember one year
when the Spanish entry to the Eurovision Song Contest was called "Made in
Spain", and they actually made it into four syllables: "Made in Espain",
the fill vowel taking up an entire beat with a note all to itself, despite
the fact that it didn't appear in the printed lyrics.

Bill Dana as "Jose Jimenez" consistently added an "e" to any word beginning
with an s: esentence, especial, etc.

In the convalescent home where I live, the Hispanic nurses regularly use
"ch" to replace "sh," so "shower" becomes "chower."

I recall a Hispanic guy who used to attend Cal State University Los Angeles,
which is located in East Los Angeles. The tailgate of his pickup truck had
a custom wooden plaque reading "TCHEVY."
--
Gary G. Taylor * Rialto, CA
gary at donavan dot org / http:// geetee dot donavan dot org
"The two most abundant things in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." --Harlan Ellison

Or, put another way: English speakers often find it impossible to
pronounce certain consonant clusters when they occur at the beginning
of a word. That's why, for example, we pronounce "xylophone" and
"xenon" with /z/ instead of /ks/. ...

This statement reverses cause and effect. English-speakers often have
trouble starting a word with a KS sound *because* it does not occur in
English. (Similarly with the other examples in the quoted posting.)
The reason it does not occur in English is that the only words where
it might, those spelled with an initial X, are instead pronounced with
a Z sound.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | The real trouble with this world of ours is... that
| it is nearly reasonable, but not quite. --Chesterton

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Mark Brader" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Or, put another way: English speakers often find it impossible to
pronounce certain consonant clusters when they occur at the beginning
of a word. That's why, for example, we pronounce "xylophone" and
"xenon" with /z/ instead of /ks/. ...

This statement reverses cause and effect. English-speakers often have
trouble starting a word with a KS sound *because* it does not occur in
English. (Similarly with the other examples in the quoted posting.)
The reason it does not occur in English is that the only words where
it might, those spelled with an initial X, are instead pronounced with
a Z sound.

I think this is a chicken/egg situation. English speakers have trouble with
/ks/ at the beginning of a word because that combination doesn't exist in
English; and that combination doesn't exist in English because English
speakers have trouble pronouncing it. On the other hand, as has been pointed
out, English speakers have no trouble with words starting with /sf/,
although all such words I have been able to think of are imports from Greek
(just as "xylophone" and "xenon" are).

But that's a little off-topic. This particular subthread started with the
observation that "chth" is pronounced differently (in English) when it
occurs within a word than at the beginning; the reason is that at the
beginning of a word, that paticular consonant cluster proves virtually
impossible for native English speakers -- irrespective of how that actually
came about.

"Gautam Majumdar" wrote in message
newsan.2004.05.15.22.17.09.801952.16582@XSPAMfre euk.com...
The May 2004 issue of Scientific American has an article about gas
depleted hot jupiters which are named Chthonians (page 13). How to
pronunciate it ? Does "Ch" or "th" go silent ?

According to the dictionary (dictionary.com), the "Ch" is silent.