Bush to announce new missions to moon

"LooseChanj" wrote in message
. ..
On behalf of Florida, BITE ME.

If he did that, you'd get gingivitis wherever he bit.

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...

Now, lie back on the couch and relax...tell me about this
frustration of
yours, and when you first thought it was important that your habits
be
"better overall" than other people's... what was your relationship
with
your father like? How about with your mother? How about with _my_
mother? I thought so, you sneaky *******- it was you all along,
wasn't
it! WASN'T IT?! Dad never should have trusted you to be alone with
her!
The couch is _electrified_! Now you pay the terrible price for
wrecking
my home and driving me into a life of studying aberrant psychology!
I
didn't want to be a psychiatrist! I wanted to be a _lumberjack_!
Leaping from tree to tree with my best girl at my side! No, not
_mom_...I got over that phase early on! No, not dad either!

Pat :-)


Huh?

wlhaught wrote:


Huh?


Denial.... there shall be no progress toward _The Cure_ as long as you
are in the State Of Denial- nor in the State Of Delaware for that
matter..... :-)

Pat

Scott Hedrick ) wrote:

: "Eric Chomko" wrote in message
: ...
: He's not self made like Clinton.

: How many private sector jobs has former President Clinton had prior to
: becoming President?

Not sure. But Clinton wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth like W.

: I guess asbestos being carcinogenic is a liberal building code
: restriction, right?

: It's also irrelevant to the discussion. After all, at the time asbestos was
: installed, it was chosen *because* it was considered safer than the
: alternates- and its use was also mandated in building codes.

Mandated? I'd like to see that!

: : "Rich" and "riff-raff" are relative terms in this case. For example, in
: : Florida now a window must be able to withstand being hit by a 2x4
: travelling
: : at 34 miles per hour. This has added at least $1000 to the average home,
:
: Do you think hurricanes and insurance companies had anything to do with
: it?

: Hurricane force is greater than 34 miles per hour. Why was that number
: chosen, and who chose it?

Probably from actuary tables.

If safety was the issue, why not demand that the
: window be able to withstand more than 34 miles per hour, and mandate that
: this be done retroactively? Why is it assumed that the public is too stupid
: to be able to made decisions on their own?

Well, the FDA exists to protcet the public from itself. The Darwin Awards
do support the notion that the public may need watchdogs of a sort.

If a person want to live in a
: tar-paper shack, why shouldn't they be permitted to do so?

Because that shack could have an effect on a neighbor. Do you think
building codes are dumb? Do you want to toss out the National Electric
Code and have any joker wire up his house the way he sees fit? Somehow, I
don't believe that you believe what you are posting, but that isn't the
first time, right?

: I thought all those Cubans in Miami were conservative Republicans?

: Why is the ethnic background of the people of Miami relevant to the
: discussion?

Well, if you are trying to make a point about workers in Miami, it would
stand to reason to look at who lives in Miami.

: Now,
: are you claiming that they importing some of Castro's boys to do the work
: down there?

: Please provide a verifiable reference to the specific post where I said
: that. A quote will not be sufficient. I've said nothing whatsoever about the
: race, education, religion, or nationality of any of the workers.

Polictial affilation? You missed that. Was that an oversight?

This is
: clearly a red herring on your part. The race card is often played by the
: party who has no facts to back their claims.

Sorry, I forgot that there are Cubans in Miami that are Democrats. I guess
they were the ones with the code violations.

: Agreed. But the fallacy here is to equate personal responsibility with
: necessarily being conservative Republican

: Yes, it *is* a fallacy, and it's one you are making. *I* haven't said
: anything to that effect.

Good. I wasn't trying to fall into any politcial incorrectness traps.

: as I demonstrated

: So far, you haven't *demonstrated* anything. You've *claimed* many things
: but have not provided any verifiable references.

Try this:
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...= en&ie=UTF-8

: So at best what you have is a case where liberal judges came in and
: allowed lousy conservative workers a way to get away with shoddy work.

: Where were judges involved at all? I've said nothing at all about any
: judicial process, at least where the change in building codes are involved.

How does a building code get changed if not by a judge?

: Your personal agenda seems to be making you see things that aren't there.
: For one thing, you are assuming that I am a Republican, whereas past posts
: have made it very clear that not only am I not a member of any political
: party, I would prefer to completely eliminate political parties.

Anarchist? Please tell me who you voted for since you were 18 in the
general election.

: : There's nothing unique about this process- after all, it's not really
: : different that what happened with Challenger.
:
: The descision to launch in below freezing temps meant nothing?

: Note how once again you change the subject- I am clearly referring to a
: decision *process* and you try to bring up a specific decision without
: showing how that decision is relevant to the discussion at hand. Another
: sign of a troll.

I asked a question. When you ask for references or their equivalent when
I'm questioning, then it becomes obvious that you aren't seeking the truth
and all you want is to be right. Hell, you're right and you get to be
right! Big deal, take your psyhcological assessment and have your way with
it, but when you settle down and start seeking the truth then maybe we
can continue the debate.

: So, what you are saying is that Bush's interest rate cut

: *I* have said *nothing whatsoever* about any interest rate cuts- and, of
: course, once again you fail to explain what Bush has to do with it. So far
: as housing is concerned, *private lenders* set their rates. Typically they
: use the Federal Reserve Prime Rate as a *guide*, though not always, and the
: Prime Rate is set by the Federal Reserve Board- note that Alan Greenspan is
: *not* a Dubya appointee.

No, he was a Reagan appointee. So?

: helped existing
: homeowners and those that could afford homes that were renting, but was
: useless to those that are homeless or that can not afford to buy? Is that
: it?!

: *Once again*, you change the subject.

: : The use of converted shipping containers would help solve both the
: : affordable housing problem *and* the buildup of empty shipping
: containers.
:
: Where were these shipping containers supposed to go?

: Why, whereever the "affordible housing" is supposed to go, of course.

Well if you can't give them away, then sell them.

: : It's a plausible, practical and fairly inexpensive solution to a real
: : problem, but it won't happen because it isn't politically correct.
:
: What is politically incorrect about it?

: Why, living in a converted shipping crate offends the dignity of the
: homeless.

Their choice. Fine. Sell the crates to those that will pay.

: : More
: : homeless and more creative ways for them to make their own homes?

: Why doesn't some enterprising person buy them cheap and simply use them
: for temp structures?

: *Because it violates the building codes*. Pay attention!

Surely someone can find a way to use them?

: : Which says nothing whatsoever about the substantial costs incurred as a
: : direct result of depending on this "partner".
:
: I understand that they were late with the hab portion of ISS, but it is
: there now, right?

: *Because they were late*, expenses went up on the rest of the construction.
: You can't just stick stuff in a warehouse for free until the station is
: ready for it. It has to be maintained, and the useful life of the parts
: starts when it's made, not when it's installed. There are other costs
: involved as well when the whole schedule is slipped because a partner didn't
: deliver on time.

But it does happen. Geez, make um do the next few lauches on their ruble.

: As I have said before, what makes you think 9-11 would have even happened
: under a Gore presidency?

: For one thing, *EVIDENCE* shows that the Somalis had access to Osama bin
: Ladin and *offered* Clinton the chance to nab him. bin Laden was already
: known to be a terrorist. Clinton declined. There is no evidence whatsoever
: to believe that things would have been different under Gore.

Hell, I have read where bin Laden's family was allowed to leave the US on
9-11. Is this true? Does the Carlysle Group have business with the bin
Laden family? Didn't bin Laden's family construction company build US
bases under US contracts? Didn't Reagan fund bin Laden when he was with
the Muljahadin when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan back in
the late 80s? Blaming Clinton and Gore for not having bin Laden now after
9-11 ignores the Reagan/Bush ties to bin Laden, of which business was the
link. I don't recall Gore or Clinton having any business ties to bin
Laden.

: But
: it DID happen under W. Personal responsibility is a real bitch sometimes.

: "I did not have sex with that woman."
: "It depends on the definition of 'is'."

Yeah, you're an independent.

: Just ask JFK. Oops, quite dead, right wing coup and all

: For which you have still failed to provide any evidence. You have also
: failed to show how it's even relevant to the discussion at hand- another
: troll tactic.

There is mounds of evidence. So you believe in the lone nut theory?

: : Remember this- the *Democrats* haven't ever done anything for you.
:
: I never claimed that they did.

: Then why support them?

They are motivated more by the people than business interests. Not 100%,
but more overall.

: But what the Repubilcans are doing now I
: think we can do without.

: The Republicans have also never done anything to you.

Sure they have. They support Big Tobacco and cigerettes kill millions
yearly. At least the Dems got that and got out. That alone is worthy.

Eric

Scott Hedrick ) wrote:

: "Eric Chomko" wrote in message
: ...
: Scott Hedrick ) wrote:
:
: : "Eric Chomko" wrote in message
: : ...
: : Better to have them with us in space rather than at odds in a cold
: war,
: : no?
:
: : Better to have them not involved with us in space at all than to become
: : dependent on them for critical path elements that they can't deliver.
:
: Well as stated before, RIGHT NOW they are the only ones that can get us to
: and from ISS.

: Gee- if we hadn't ****ed away so much money supporting our "partners"
: because Clinton insisted on it, we might have been able to spend more money
: on shuttle maintenance. After all *Clinton* produced 8 budgets, why didn't
: he provide more money?

Well, the shuttle didn't fall apart while he was president.

: : Make "them" = US and "us" = Europe and it still holds.
:
: I don't follow you here...

: The Europeans have gotten hosed by the US because of US unilaterally
: changing the deal. The deal with the Russians also had to be repeatedly
: changed because the Russians couldn't deliver according to the agreement.
: Partnerships suck.

Even domestic ones or only international ones?

: Right, so he spent more than half the time talking about terrorism.

: Since terrorism is, right now *far more important* to the nation than space
: exploration, rightfully so.

Terrorism is the new communsim of the 50s and the GOP isn't missing a
beat.

: Time
: to scare the old folks into voting for him.

: As opposed to buying them with Social Security benefits- created by a
: Democrat. Or Medicare or Medicaid- created by a Democrat.

Seems like all seniors like medicare and not just the Dems.

: Sure it is a Republican issue. The government is suppose to do more with
: less money.

: Why is *that*, specifically, a Republican issue? Especially considering the
: tremendous increase in government spending as a direct result of Democratic
: policies, as described above?

Clinton balanced the budget though. So, while he was foolig around with an
intern, he was actually productive. W, like Reagan before him, will simply
increase the deficit.

: And that is fine as long as economy does well given a tax cut.

: The evidence shows that it has improved considerably since the tax cuts
: began under Bush.

Only because of interest rates and that everyone refinace their homes.
That was a one trick pony designed to carry him into another term.

: What that does is put a burden on each state. THEY will have to raise
: taxes.

: Just like the Democrats did when they created Social Security, Medicare and
: Medicaid.

All of which the oil barrens want to rob with their defense contractor
buddies.

Eric

Jorge R. Frank ) wrote:
: (Eric Chomko) wrote in
: :

: Jorge R. Frank ) wrote:
: : (Eric Chomko) wrote in
: : :
:
: : Jorge R. Frank ) wrote:
: : : (Eric Chomko) wrote in
: : : :
: :
: : : Jorge R. Frank ) wrote:
: : :
: : : : We've
: : : : been going round and round with this and all you have is Clinton's
: : : : half- baked shuttle replacement (X-33), his turning the space
: : : : station program into foreign aid (ISS),
: : :
: : : Christ, do you see working with the Russians in space as a
: : : liability?
: :
: : : No, the additional redundancy provided by the Russians has made the
: : : station more survivable. But that has nothing to do with the reasons
: : : why Clinton brought them in (ISS cost reduction, foreign aid to
: : : Russia, provide an incentive for Russia not to sell nuclear tech to
: : : Iran), all of which failed.
: :
: : Better to have them with us in space rather than at odds in a cold
: : war, no?
:
: : Those aren't the only two choices.
:
: What other choices?

: There is a whole continuum of choices between "joined at the hip" and "cold
: war". The inability to see that is a sign of a simple binary mind.

I didn't ask for the differnce between digital and analog, I asked for an
example, and you didn't answer.

Eric

: --
: JRF

: Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
: check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
: think one step ahead of IBM.

LooseChanj ) wrote:
: On or about Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:51:33 +0000 (UTC), Eric Chomko
: made the sensational claim that:
: Whining? No, telling it like it is. And the Floridians have Spring
: Training every year and that should be enough for them.

: On behalf of Florida, BITE ME.

I'll let an alligator do that...

Eric

P.S. Speaking of Gators we sent Steve Spurrier back to you and got a
real coach to run the Redskins again. Be prepared to have Joe Gibbs
kicking both Dolphin AND Buccaneer butt!

: --
: This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | Just because something
: It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | is possible, doesn't
: No person, none, care | and it will reach me | mean it can happen

Scott Hedrick ) wrote:

: "LooseChanj" wrote in message
: . ..
: On behalf of Florida, BITE ME.

: If he did that, you'd get gingivitis wherever he bit.


Naw, he needs an alligator to teach him some manners and respect his
betters.

Eric

"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
...
Scott Hedrick ) wrote:

: "Eric Chomko" wrote in message
: ...
: He's not self made like Clinton.

: How many private sector jobs has former President Clinton had prior to
: becoming President?

Not sure. But Clinton wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth like W.

Why don't you provide us with W's birth pictures so we can all see this
spoon? W at least hasn't depended on the taxpayers his whole life.

: It's also irrelevant to the discussion. After all, at the time asbestos
was
: installed, it was chosen *because* it was considered safer than the
: alternates- and its use was also mandated in building codes.

Mandated? I'd like to see that!

If you have been in a public building built between the 1920s and late
1960s, *you already have*.

: Hurricane force is greater than 34 miles per hour. Why was that number
: chosen, and who chose it?

Probably from actuary tables.

Actuaries deal with insurance premiums, not engineering.

If safety was the issue, why not demand that the
: window be able to withstand more than 34 miles per hour, and mandate
that
: this be done retroactively? Why is it assumed that the public is too
stupid
: to be able to made decisions on their own?

Well, the FDA exists to protcet the public from itself.

The FDA was not involved in setting the wind standards for the Florida
building code, so it's irrelevant to the discussion.

If a person want to live in a
: tar-paper shack, why shouldn't they be permitted to do so?

Because that shack could have an effect on a neighbor.

Such as?

Do you think
building codes are dumb?

Do you think the value of a code is determined by the number of rules?

Do you want to toss out the National Electric
Code and have any joker wire up his house the way he sees fit?

If that joker wants to live in that house, *why should his freedom to do so
be curtailed*?

Somehow, I
don't believe that you believe what you are posting, but that isn't the
first time, right?

It's certainly not the first time you've been out of your depth.

: Why is the ethnic background of the people of Miami relevant to the
: discussion?

Well, if you are trying to make a point about workers in Miami, it would
stand to reason to look at who lives in Miami.

I wasn't limiting my point to the Miami area, that just happens to be where
the latest wave of building code changes began in Florida.

: Now,
: are you claiming that they importing some of Castro's boys to do the
work
: down there?

: Please provide a verifiable reference to the specific post where I said
: that. A quote will not be sufficient. I've said nothing whatsoever about
the
: race, education, religion, or nationality of any of the workers.

Polictial affilation? You missed that. Was that an oversight?

You seem to have missed posting a verifiable reference that answers my
question about your red herring.

This is
: clearly a red herring on your part. The race card is often played by the
: party who has no facts to back their claims.

Sorry, I forgot that there are Cubans in Miami that are Democrats. I guess
they were the ones with the code violations.

Some of them were.

: Agreed. But the fallacy here is to equate personal responsibility with
: necessarily being conservative Republican

: Yes, it *is* a fallacy, and it's one you are making. *I* haven't said
: anything to that effect.

Good. I wasn't trying to fall into any politcial incorrectness traps.

Yet *you* were the one who played the race card.

: as I demonstrated

: So far, you haven't *demonstrated* anything. You've *claimed* many
things
: but have not provided any verifiable references.

Try this:

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...= en&ie=UTF-8

Which does nothing whatsoever to support the connection *you* have made
between poor constructuion workmanship and Cuban immigration.

: Where were judges involved at all? I've said nothing at all about any
: judicial process, at least where the change in building codes are
involved.

How does a building code get changed if not by a judge?

By the body that creates the code, of course.

: Your personal agenda seems to be making you see things that aren't
there.
: For one thing, you are assuming that I am a Republican, whereas past
posts
: have made it very clear that not only am I not a member of any political
: party, I would prefer to completely eliminate political parties.

Anarchist?

Not at all. I didn't say to eliminate the government, just the parties. The
parties have no power.

Please tell me who you voted for since you were 18 in the
general election.

Why? How will that help you address your failure to provide verifiable cites
to support your claims?

: Note how once again you change the subject- I am clearly referring to a
: decision *process* and you try to bring up a specific decision without
: showing how that decision is relevant to the discussion at hand. Another
: sign of a troll.

I asked a question.

Which wasn't relevant to the discussion at hand- a clear attempt by you to
avoid admitting that you didn't do any homework before you posted.

I'm
obvious
aren't seeking the truth
and all
want is to be right.

Sounds just like Bob Haller.

Big deal, take your psyhcological assessment and have your way with
it

What assessment would that be? I've never asked or said anything at all
about psychology- only verifiable sources for the data you used to form what
you now claim are opinions.

You might try to

settle down and start seeking the truth

instead of avoiding it. You are imagining things about me that aren't there.

: So, what you are saying is that Bush's interest rate cut

: *I* have said *nothing whatsoever* about any interest rate cuts- and, of
: course, once again you fail to explain what Bush has to do with it. So
far
: as housing is concerned, *private lenders* set their rates. Typically
they
: use the Federal Reserve Prime Rate as a *guide*, though not always, and
the
: Prime Rate is set by the Federal Reserve Board- note that Alan Greenspan
is
: *not* a Dubya appointee.

No, he was a Reagan appointee. So?

So what does *your* bringing up interest rate cuts have to do with providing
verifiable references to data that support your statements about cutting the
DOD budget?

: Why, whereever the "affordible housing" is supposed to go, of course.

Well if you can't give them away, then sell them.

They aren't mine to give or to sell. As the article in the Christian Science
Monitor showed, financing isn't the issue.

: Why, living in a converted shipping crate offends the dignity of the
: homeless.

Their choice. Fine. Sell the crates to those that will pay.

But people aren't *allowed* to make that decision, because the government
has decided they are too stupid to make their own decisions about their own
living conditions.

: : More
: : homeless and more creative ways for them to make their own homes?

: Why doesn't some enterprising person buy them cheap and simply use
them
: for temp structures?

: *Because it violates the building codes*. Pay attention!

Surely someone can find a way to use them?

There are plenty of ways to use them. Being legally allowed to do so is a
different matter.

: *Because they were late*, expenses went up on the rest of the
construction.
: You can't just stick stuff in a warehouse for free until the station is
: ready for it. It has to be maintained, and the useful life of the parts
: starts when it's made, not when it's installed. There are other costs
: involved as well when the whole schedule is slipped because a partner
didn't
: deliver on time.

But it does happen. Geez, make um do the next few lauches on their ruble.

And if they refuse to do so with a critical path part?

: For one thing, *EVIDENCE* shows that the Somalis had access to Osama bin
: Ladin and *offered* Clinton the chance to nab him. bin Laden was already
: known to be a terrorist. Clinton declined. There is no evidence
whatsoever
: to believe that things would have been different under Gore.

Hell, I have read where bin Laden's family was allowed to leave the US on
9-11. Is this true?

I dunno. Where did you read it, and why is it relevant? bin Laden's family
has said bad things about him for years.

Does the Carlysle Group have business with the bin
Laden family?

Does it? Why don't you find out?

Didn't bin Laden's family construction company build US
bases under US contracts?

Suppose they did? What has that got to do with Clinton's refusal to catch
Osama?

Didn't Reagan fund bin Laden when he was with
the Muljahadin when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan back in
the late 80s?

Did he? Was Osama bin Laden known to be a terrorist at that time?

Blaming Clinton and Gore for not having bin Laden now after
9-11 ignores the Reagan/Bush ties to bin Laden

And blaming Reagan/Bush for 9/11 ignores the *fact* that Clinton refused to
even try to capture a known terrorist who was known to have funded terrorist
acts against the United States when that same terrorist was being
practically handed to the US.

: But
: it DID happen under W. Personal responsibility is a real bitch
sometimes.

: "I did not have sex with that woman."
: "It depends on the definition of 'is'."

Yeah, you're an independent.

Finally waking up, I see.

: Just ask JFK. Oops, quite dead, right wing coup and all

: For which you have still failed to provide any evidence. You have also
: failed to show how it's even relevant to the discussion at hand- another
: troll tactic.

There is mounds of evidence.

Then please provide the evidence that shows how JFK has anything whatsoever
to do with the discussion at hand.

So you believe in the lone nut theory?

No, you're not a lone nut. You have plenty of company with Copy Boy and the
Maxson clan.

: : Remember this- the *Democrats* haven't ever done anything for you.
:
: I never claimed that they did.

: Then why support them?

They are motivated more by the people than business interests.

Which one provides more jobs?

: But what the Repubilcans are doing now I
: think we can do without.

: The Republicans have also never done anything to you.

Sure they have.

Really? What has the party ever done to you?

They support Big Tobacco and cigerettes kill millions
yearly. At least the Dems got that and got out.

Hardly. The Dems keep pushing farm subsidies, including tobacco subsidies.
If the Dems didn't want to support Big Tobacco, then Clinton's first budget
would have completely eliminated the tobacco subsidy. Of course, considering
that tobacco-growing areas tend to be strongly Democratic...

That alone is worthy.

So you like supporting organizations that have absolutely no power?

"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
...
After all *Clinton* produced 8 budgets, why didn't
: he provide more money?

Well, the shuttle didn't fall apart while he was president.

Well, shuttles were mutually cannibalized for parts under his watch.

: The Europeans have gotten hosed by the US because of US unilaterally
: changing the deal. The deal with the Russians also had to be repeatedly
: changed because the Russians couldn't deliver according to the
agreement.
: Partnerships suck.

Even domestic ones or only international ones?

Climb out of your parent's basement and find out.

: Since terrorism is, right now *far more important* to the nation than
space
: exploration, rightfully so.

Terrorism is the new communsim of the 50s and the GOP isn't missing a
beat.

Fortunately they are rising to the occasions, even though they are as
powerless as the Democrats to do anything.

: As opposed to buying them with Social Security benefits- created by a
: Democrat. Or Medicare or Medicaid- created by a Democrat.

Seems like all seniors like medicare and not just the Dems.

But Medicare was *created* by a Democrat.

: Why is *that*, specifically, a Republican issue? Especially considering
the
: tremendous increase in government spending as a direct result of
Democratic
: policies, as described above?

Clinton balanced the budget though.

Not really. Check the numbers and you'll see that the deficits were covered
by borrowing.

W, like Reagan before him, will simply
increase the deficit.

Which makes him no different than JFK and Johnson.

: The evidence shows that it has improved considerably since the tax cuts
: began under Bush.

Only because of interest rates and that everyone refinace their homes.

I didn't refinance mine and I'm still better off.

That was a one trick pony designed to carry him into another term.

As opposed to the tricks Clinton arranged...

: Just like the Democrats did when they created Social Security, Medicare
and
: Medicaid.

All of which the oil barrens want to rob with their defense contractor
buddies.

As opposed to continuing to rob the pockets of the taxpayers to spend still
more on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.